car and driver?

[Hitman]

...we need more Jeep bashing!

Hmmm.. okay.

The new Jeep Grand Cherokee is ugly as sin, even if it did win the Car and Driver comparo.

Remember the complaints about the quadradrive system on the last generation Grand Cherokee? Well, does it work as advertised on the new generation?

 

[Mark86]

As for the Jeep, I would much rather stare at "ugly" (not in my opinion) HVAC controls and accidently pop the hood at the gas station on my 4Runner once in awhile rather than be on the side of a road stranded because my Jeep decided to break down on me. How about if I decide to go offroading and my so-called advanced quadra drive system fails? The hood scoop dilema doesn't look so bad! I don't know about everybody else on the board, but I don't think 1/4 mile times or anything having to do with racing an SUV really matter when buying an SUV. You wouldn't test a sports car on an offroad trail and then make up your mind, would you??

Oh, here is my opinion on the other vehicles Car and Driver compared to the 4Runner:
Montero- That thing really does not move on the highway. It really strains. We had this as a rental once and couldn't wait to get rid of it.
Pathfinder- I don't know how it drives, but I am not a fan of the styling. I would test drive it though to see how it drives.
Explorer- I have never been in one but I know a few people that own 2003 and 2004 models and they love them. Personally, I would not consider it.

 

[Guest]

Yeah, I guess you are right THAI. I didn't realize you had a bunch of complaints about him. I didn't get to see those threads.

The Jeep sucks.

 

[Larry]

It's not so much that the 'Jeep sucks' but the advertising style of the reports sucks. That's all the comparo was, an ad, like an info-mercial on paper. If the only thing they could tell me was that the 4Runner had a hood scoop, head room and lousy a/c controls (ones I really like), I did not learn anything I couldn't get in the showroom. If this was really an offroad comparo then why not have a series of real driving tests. An example, ok, how 'bout going down a very steep and dangerous long downhill, loaded, to test how save the vehicles braking systems and downhill decent systems are, not just a short drop to see if they are connected. That's information I can't get in the showroom or on a test drive around the block and down the freeway. The report felt, to me, like they did not go into areas that would have pointed to a winner, other than the one they choose, instead. They have some smart people on staff, but I guess, like other magazines, the bean counters run the show. And that must take writers and not testers. In the end they must balance something to read with something to sell and a paycheck from their advertisers.

 

[dcampen]

Remember the complaints about the quadradrive system on the last generation Grand Cherokee? Well, does it work as advertised on the new generation?

Thai posted a link, I think in the Grand Cherokee review thread, to a Jeep forum where a JGC owner was complaining bitterly about the deficiences of the traction system (Quadradrive, new version, IIRC).

This is where someone with some resources, like C&D magazine, could do some actual, useful testing - Quadradrive vs. ATRAC on a dynamometer where 2 diagonally opposed wheels could be given no traction while the maximum torque delivered by the other 2 wheels was measured. I would think that Toyota, Mercedes-Benz, Chrysler must have dynamometers that are capable of this.

 

[Larry]

....exactly my point, how 'bout more than an informercial.

 

[Mark86]

I just came back from the local supermarket and I finally got to see the current issue of Car and Driver. I am even more angry than before actually seeing these worthless issues actually typed up in a magazine. It just doesn't make sense. If their problems actually affected the driving and handling of the truck, then I would not mind. I don't have a problem with people bashing the 4Runner if it makes sense. Everybody can have different opinions on something. Also, from what I saw in the article, the 4Runner is the only model they tested without leather and all the other goodies. Maybe they would have liked the dual zone HVAC controls better!

Oh, if you were wondering, I did not buy the magazine! :arrow:

 

[Hitman]

....Also, from what I saw in the article, the 4Runner is the only model they tested without leather .... :arrow:

They also mentioned in the article that they liked the cloth seats and that cloth always feel better than leather.

 

[abin]

They also mentioned in the article that they liked the cloth seats and that cloth always feel better than leather.

1. need to be specific, is that leather seat from, for example, GC, or 4Runner LTD?
2. I don't like to sit on a pig skin, so I am happy. This does not means I agree with C/D.

 

[abin]

...
Oh, if you were wondering, I did not buy the magazine! :arrow:

Glad that no one bought this mazazine.
I think,
They are comparing SUVs at same level of MSRP. Just check the GC and 4Runner MSRP on Bill Gates' web site. I found, the high end MSRP of GC is 34K and 4Runner is 37K.
Obviously, 4Runner outranks GC on price. lol.

 

[Hitman]

1. need to be specific, is that leather seat from, for example, GC, or 4Runner LTD?

No, they were just generalizing that they like the feel of cloth seats more than leather seats......not comparing cloth or leather from different vehicles.

 

[iFORCE]

This all goes to show.... how much we LOVE our 4Runners and we'll defend it just as passionately 10/15/20 years down the road.

 

[abin]

This all goes to show.... how much we LOVE our 4Runners and we'll defend it just as passionately 10/15/20 years down the road.

A guy of age 95 said to newspaper, he gave up his driver license three years ago. Good man. He must be having enjoyed his driving doesn't matter hs was driving a 4Runner or GC,...
I would never give up my drving as long as I am driving a 4Runner.:awais:

 

[Larry]

Have you ever wondered how CR can afford to buy millions of dollars of vehicles for their tests and not get their hands dirty? If they don't take advertising, I wonder if they take deep discounts or donations from the auto manufacturers? Have you ever read a report in CR about how they buy cars and manage the money for those purchases? Did Toyota stiff them? Since Jeeps are stacking up on the lots, maybe Mercedes made a better deal. These CR guys are beginning to sound like a borne agin that holds one hand up praising the almighty while the other hand is lifting your wallet. I'm glad they told me my 4Runner is a bottom feeder because of the hood scoop that my SR5 does not have is in the way.

 

[bulldog-yota]

C&D are more concerned with 1/4 mile times than with anything else. So the HEMI with a liter more won by a good margin on straight line performance. Not very convincing against the 4R if you ask me, given the huge capacity advantage. Secondly they dont care about reliability, as do most mags. Remember the Touareg and LR3 now being the top dogs for MT, neither should be driven more than 10 miles from a dealership as towing fees will be expensive.

Besides the 4R can take the most cases of beer, so it is top dog

Another thing I found interesting was that they rated almost all of themequal in offroad capibility ??????????? The new explorer with IRS the same as the 4R, WTF??? The Jeep with the least ground clearance is there too.

I dont know, but I think their criteria might be OK for sports cars, but for SUVs????

Besides I have been in all these SUvs (apart from the new nissan nissan) to feel interior space, and only the Mitsibushi was bigger than the 4R inside. The ford and jeep felt cramped compared to my 4R.

 

[Hitman]

Have you ever wondered how CR can afford to buy millions of dollars of vehicles for their tests and not get their hands dirty? If they don't take advertising, I wonder if they take deep discounts or donations from the auto manufacturers? Have you ever read a report in CR about how they buy cars and manage the money for those purchases? Did Toyota stiff them? Since Jeeps are stacking up on the lots, maybe Mercedes made a better deal. These CR guys are beginning to sound like a borne agin that holds one hand up praising the almighty while the other hand is lifting your wallet. I'm glad they told me my 4Runner is a bottom feeder because of the hood scoop that my SR5 does not have is in the way.

Consumer Reports buys all of their test vehicles the same exact way as you and I do.... they shop around different dealership or sometimes use the Internet to find the best price.

Then they go and sign the papers and take delivery all without anyone ever knowing that they are buying a vehicle for Consumer Reports.

 

[Thai]

Bulldog, i totally agree. C&D is never interested much in off-roading capability. They rely a lot on manufacturer's claims and advertising. Their main focus has always been on-road handling and performance. On a few off-roading test in the past, C&D had to hire folks from FourWheeler to guide them.

IMO, C&D should stick to cars and crossovers. They should not do comparisons among off-roaders...it's out of their league. As for car comparo, i like C&D a lot actually. When i had my M3, i use to subscribe to them.

Same goes for Automobile magazine. They are pretty fair and good with rating cars. However, they have no clue with SUVs.

For both, they always pick the one with better on-road performance.

A better source would be Peterson's 4Wheeler or FourWheeler. However, I think that all of these magazines are owned by one company??

 

[Northof49]

If it weren't for Brock Yates, I would never read C&D anyways :

 

[dcampen]

Have you ever wondered how CR can afford to buy millions of dollars of vehicles for their tests and not get their hands dirty? If they don't take advertising, I wonder if they take deep discounts or donations from the auto manufacturers? Have you ever read a report in CR about how they buy cars and manage the money for those purchases? Did Toyota stiff them? Since Jeeps are stacking up on the lots, maybe Mercedes made a better deal. These CR guys are beginning to sound like a borne agin that holds one hand up praising the almighty while the other hand is lifting your wallet. I'm glad they told me my 4Runner is a bottom feeder because of the hood scoop that my SR5 does not have is in the way.

Sorry to spoil a good rant but this thread is about Car and Driver magazine _not_ Consumer Reports.

 

[Hitman]

If it weren't for Brock Yates, I would never read C&D anyways :

Are you serious?

I've subscribed to Car and Driver since I was just a kid, and the one thing that I usually don't even bother reading is Yate's column.

The editorials in Car and Driver are second to none, except for the one that Yates writes. I hope he retires soon.