Confused...5th gen on FJ Platform?

[M1911]

The frame is facelifted? LOL, that's funny. Never heard that one before. I didnt' know that a frame could be facelifted.

Call it what you want. The frame of the 2010 appears to be based on the frame of the 4th Gen. It has apparently been strengthened somewhat, but it is still basically the same frame, with the same dimensions.

To put it a different way, the 5th Gen has a new body and modified frame. So I would not call it a "new platform."

 

[M1911]

"Frame facelifted"? Huh?! In what way? You seem to have all the "right" answers...tell us more please.

Toyota claims that the frame has been modified:

Extensive frame and body reinforcements have been added, using high-tensile materials to add strength without adding weight.

So that implies they are using the same basic frame, but with some added reinforcements. The hard points appear to be the same (same wheelbase) as the 4th gen.

So, if the frame/platform is the same as the 4th gen/FJ, then how is this a "5th gen redesign"??

The frame appears to be modified, but the body and interior are all new. Compare that to the 2006 (?) model year change -- the body was basically the same, with minor tweaks to the grill, improvements to the engine, etc. I'd call the 2006 a minor facelift. The 5th gen is a major change.

.if this is a true redesign, then it should have a NEW frame.

Why? If you don't need to change the geometry, why do you need a new frame? The 4th gen was significantly larger than the 3rd gen, and it needed to support much larger, more powerful engines, and tow much heavier weights. So it makes sense that the 4th gen needed a new frame. In contrast, Toyota decided to keep the 5th gen to a similar size as the 4th gen, with the same or smaller engines, and same or lower tow capacity. Why change the frame if you don't need to?

 

[Thai]

Toyota claims that the frame has been modified:

So that implies they are using the same basic frame, but with some added reinforcements.

I'd call the 2006 a minor facelift. The 5th gen is a major change.


Why? If you don't need to change the geometry, why do you need a new frame? The 4th gen was significantly larger than the 3rd gen, and it needed to support much larger, more powerful engines, and tow much heavier weights. So it makes sense that the 4th gen needed a new frame. In contrast, Toyota decided to keep the 5th gen to a similar size as the 4th gen, with the same or smaller engines, and same or lower tow capacity. Why change the frame if you don't need to?

Well, what Toyota "claims" and what is fact are two different things! I have lost faith in what Toyota claims...there are just too many BS stuff that Toyota says that is simply not true.

Again, if Toyota reinforced the 4th gen frame for the 2010 4runner, then i am sure that Toyota will give us some mathematical figures to back it up, right? Notice that none of the Toyota press release so far has said that the 5th gen frame is any stronger than the 4th gen...so, what are the reinforcements for? And if there are improvements in torsional rigidity and stiffness, then i am sure that Toyota will advertise it readily...as they have done in the past with 4runners and Land Cruisers.

You may want to go over to the FJ forums and read what those guys think of the FJ frame/platform strength.... :bash: In other words, there is much room for improvement with the FJ platform. I hope that your faith in Toyota claims will be true, but as of now, i have my doubts.

 

[GatorGreg]

This 5th gen 4runner is more of a retro or evolution of the 4th gen...most of the breakthru stuff involves electronic stuff (CRAWL) or add-ons (KDSS). Engine is an "evolution" for sure of the current V6...kinda like when Toyota added VVTi to the 2005 4runner V8 engine. Suspension designs are more or less the same with a few tweaks (rear shocks are more outboard).

This 5th gen 4runner reminds me of what Ford did with the 2010 Ford Mustang or Fusion. Ford made numerous changes and updates, but the basic platform is still the same.

My opinion.

Thai this reminds me a little of the Corvette C6 (2005+), there are some folks who argue that it's not really an all new generation Vette because it shares some characteristics, especially in the space frame or whatever, with the old C5 ('97-'04). So you'll see a small minority of folks on the vette forums refuse to acknowledge it as a C6 and instead insist that it be called a C5.5 However, the VAST majority of folks do in fact consider it to be an all new C6 generation because it's totally restyled on the outside, totally new interior, new engine, etc.

To me it's the same thing with the new T4R. The new 5th gen T4R is in fact a new generation IMO. Yes, it may have some shared characteristics with the 4th gen's frame, but the sheetmetal is all new, the interior is all new, everything is basically new except perhaps the frame to some extent - who knows for sure. The '10 Mustang is not a new generation but it is a very extensive mid-gen refreshening. The '10 T4R is a much bigger change in comparison.

 

[ToyTech99]

To me it's the same thing with the new T4R. The new 5th gen T4R is in fact a new generation IMO. Yes, it may have some shared characteristics with the 4th gen's frame, but the sheetmetal is all new, the interior is all new, everything is basically new except perhaps the frame to some extent - who knows for sure. The '10 Mustang is not a new generation but it is a very extensive mid-gen refreshening. The '10 T4R is a much bigger change in comparison.

I agree. There's simply too much that is new on the 5th gen compared to the4th gen to even make an argument that it's some sort of refresh. Even if they carried over the frame completely unchanged, the 5th gen would still be just that....the 5th gen, with an emphasis on the number 5.

As for the Mustang (since Thai mentioned it earlier), well, it's still considered an S197 (current generation designation since the '05 model year) because it is not all new or even close to all new. It just underwent a styling update for 2010, with the rest of the car being pretty much the same as the '05 to '09 cars. The other differences are so minor that it can't possibly be considered a new generation for the Mustang, but rather a "freshening" of the car overall. By comparison, the 5th gen 4Runner is about as all new as possible, even if the chassis is the same or almost the same.

 

[Thai]

Yeah, i guess you guys are right...but still, i am not enthusiastic that the 5th gen shares the same platform as the FJ. I sure hope Toyota truthfully strengthens the FJ frame for the 5th gen, esp. now with so much emphasis on off-roading! As many FJ owners have found out, the FJ frame is far from being stout enough for moderate-heavy off-road duty.

 

[Uneek]

I would call it a 5th gen, since 90% of it is different and the body inside and out shares no similarities with a 4th gen. The general public probably doesn't care enough, unlike us auto enthuiasts. But I would not say it's completely redesigned, or ground up engineering, if the frame is similar to the 4th gen, even if an additional cross member is added, etc. The bright side is the more similar it is to a 4th gen, the sooner we'll see some nicely and heavily modded 5th gen's. Hopefully, some 5th gens will be from our 4th gen members and they can give a comparison of which is better.

This is like what Honda did on the '94 Accord, which was exactly the same struturally as the '93, except an all new exterior sheet metal and interior.

 

[ToyTech99]

Yeah, i guess you guys are right...but still, i am not enthusiastic that the 5th gen shares the same platform as the FJ. I sure hope Toyota truthfully strengthens the FJ frame for the 5th gen, esp. now with so much emphasis on off-roading! As many FJ owners have found out, the FJ frame is far from being stout enough for moderate-heavy off-road duty.

Yeah, the 4th gen chassis has no known issues, right? It certainly seems very robust and more than capable of anything asked of it, so why would Toyota change for the 5th gen? Maybe they had to in order to build in all the other goodies? It would be a big fiasco if the 5th gen 4Runner started having the same type of issues as the FJ guys have been experiencing.

 

[Thai]

Yeah, the 4th gen chassis has no known issues, right? It certainly seems very robust and more than capable of anything asked of it, so why would Toyota change for the 5th gen? Maybe they had to in order to build in all the other goodies? It would be a big fiasco if the 5th gen 4Runner started having the same type of issues as the FJ guys have been experiencing.

Exactly! I would have been happy if Toyota said that the 5th gen was based on the 4th gen platform! No, Toyota had to say the FJ! :cry2: My guess is that Toyota wrote that because the general public would be "wowed" by it being based on an "off-roader" instead of a "grocery getter."

So, i may be just being overly paranoid...as usual....:lol:

 

[M1911]

Exactly! I would have been happy if Toyota said that the 5th gen was based on the 4th gen platform! No, Toyota had to say the FJ! :cry2: My guess is that Toyota wrote that because the general public would be "wowed" by it being based on an "off-roader" instead of a "grocery getter."

So, i may be just being overly paranoid...as usual....:lol:

Well, the 4th Gen frame came first. The FJ uses effectively a shortened 4th Gen frame. I'd be surprised if they actually started with the FJ frame when coming up with the 5th Gen. I'd bet they started with the 4th gen 4Runner, and the marketing guy just said it was based on the FJ to try to give the 4Runner more offroad credibility (since they are clearing trying to sell it based on that).

But I'm making a whole bunch of assumptions here. Only the Toyota folks in Japan know for sure, I guess.

 

[sven]

Well, what Toyota "claims" and what is fact are two different things! I have lost faith in what Toyota claims...there are just too many BS stuff that Toyota says that is simply not true.

I would not read the details in Toyota's press release like it were Holy Scripture. :rtfm:
It is poorly written and not thoroughly edited. Take for example the passage below from the press release. A literally reading makes is sound like the Premium JBL audio system with Navigation comes with XM Satellite Radio, Bluetooth, and iPod control functions, while the Premium JBL without Navigation doesn't come with these features. It also sounds like the mast antenna comes with the Premium JBL audio systems only, and not with the two cheaper eight-speaker systems. The mast antenna is a feature, superior to an antenna in glass or a fin antenna. It's not a downgrade! LOL! I would take any Toyota "claims" in this press release about the lack of a center differential on the SR5 and Trail grade T4R's with a grain of salt.



Audio with “Party Mode”
The SR5 base audio system has an AM/FM/CD player with eight speakers, providing quality sound throughout the cabin and is XM® Satellite Radio capable with a SDARS tuner.

Standard audio on the Trail grade and optional on SR5 is an AM/FM/MP3 CD player with eight speakers, integrated XM Satellite Radio (includes 90-day trial subscription), USB port with iPod connectivity, hands-free phone capability and music streaming via Bluetooth® Wireless Technology, and steering wheel audio controls.
The Premium JBL audio system has a six-disk in-dash CD changer and 15 speakers for outstanding audio performance. For models equipped with the optional navigation system, a four-disk CD changer is used, and XM Satellite Radio, Bluetooth, and iPod with MP3 control functions are included, with 15-speaker JBL audio. Reception has been enhanced on and off-road by adopting a fender-mounted, pole-type antenna. The navigation system includes a large seven-inch monitor and features an eco function that allows you to monitor fuel consumption per minute in real time, and fuel consumption per interval.