Considering 2012 4Runner - need advice!

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gunsmoke

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I currently drive a 1997 T100 Xcab, and now I have 2 kids...

I've been wishing I had something as nice as my T100, but with usable interior space instead of driving around air. (I can rent a truck for the few times I need an open bed now.)

So I've been researching and at one point I was swayed by the Jeep Grand Cherokee - it's cheaper and so much nicer inside. But I've read some things about reliability that make me think the 4Runner is the wiser choice. I will miss that panoramic sunroof, but I can get that 3rd row!

I wanted the sunroof and NAV and 4x4, but then decided I should just buy the base. I'm about to move to Northern California and heard that it's the law there that they can only sell 4x4 there. Is that true??? If so, is that because CA is just stupid or is there a practical reason? If it's for practical reason, I guess I need to buy a 4x4 then, right? My local dealer tells me that there are more problems with the 4x4 and recommended the 4x2. What's the deal here?

My only other issue is the interior, the giant knobs and controls look so bad! If I install an after market NAV touch screen will it look like it belongs?

Any advice on what I should get would be appreciated...
 
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4x4 required by law, I highly doubt it. How many 4x4 cars have you seen?? Guess you can only buy SUV's and trucks in norcal.

Problems with the 4x4 and recommends a 4x2. He's got a 4x2 that he hasn't been able to sell would be my guess, never trust what any car salesman tells you!! I've not heard anyone here with a serious problem with their 4x4 system.

The 4Runner is an extremely reliable vehicle but it's not for everyone. If you don't like the interior then you're already starting off on the wrong foot. The base models also have a soft suspension that draws complaints of body roll and nose dive if these are a concern get the Limited or be prepared to upgrade the suspension.

Best advice, test drive all the models extensively the decide if the 4Runner is right for you! In my opinion though the Jeeps have all the creature comforts but their reliability is pretty bad, I'd check out the Honda Pilot or Nissan Pathfinder or even the Ford Explorer before the Jeep.

Good luck with which ever you choose!
 
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So I called a dealer in N. CA, and even though they don't have any 4x2, they told me they can get one in if I wanted. "But most people who want a 4Runner want a 4x4." True for me, anyway. So that law is bogus!

For the issues of a 4x4, that's good news they're just as solid. It probably was just a way to sell me what he had on the lot: a nice shiny black 4x2 inside, parked on the rock hill display, looking awesome, with tinted windows, paint protection, and wheel bolts (whatever they are) thrown in for free. It has a tan cloth interior (I think I prefer gray) and it has the 3rd row. He offered a little below invoice, so it's tempting. No sunroof. :(

But I'd want to add a touch screen NAV and then be okay?

I found some good deals in CA, with 4x4 and sunroof for not much more.

Anyway, it just sucks that the interior isn't as nice as the Jeep, but I know it's all about reliability. I wouldn't consider a Highlander because it's like driving a station wagon or a minivan. My wife had a Rav4 once and it was an embarrassment to drive - never again! It was also a lease and the dealer lied to us - worst car experience ever, basically paying it off over 5 years and instead of owning it we had to turn it in.

My wife wants a Subaru Outback now - but I don't know if I can do that for me. It can be hers but it's my turn. It does have awesome AWD but it's a station wagon! Also the worst stereo and dash hands down.

I'm surprised to hear Ford recommended, but they also look good, I just never considered Found On Road Dead. They look nice on the interior, too, but are they really more reliable than a JGC???

I think it's gonna be the 4R, but I just can't get the Limited - too expensive. I can't drive a Kia or Hyundai, so I won't even go there.

There's only one type of 4x4 in the SR5, is that right?

If I just stick to color and these options, what do you think?:
4x4
3rd Row Seat
Sunroof
Paint protection
Carpet mats...

Upgrade to after market NAV...?

Thanks again...
 
Our family just went through this 6 months ago. Bought a beautiful new loaded Tacoma Trd in 2009. At the time only had one kid, thought "wow, we will have this vehicle forever". One kid it worked well, when we had to turn the rear facing cars seat forward we had to move the passenger seat forward 3 inches ( starting to get cramped in the passenger seat). At about that time my wife became pregnant with our 2nd. Hmmmm if we had to move the passenger seat forward that means the driver seat is going to have to move forward, well that would not work, I guess we will have to look for a new vehicle.

The Tacoma did work with one forward facing and one rear facing as when they oppose each other they fit side by side nicely.

When we looked the Cherokee was high on the list, if it wasn't for the horrible reliability on all the forums we would have ended up with one. Every forum I went to was just pages and pages of "my rear air suspension won't lift","4th time back to dealer" I was actually shocked the amount of issues. Even with all that we were still humming and hawing over an Overland with 5.7 hemi. Then the engine recall for the v6's came out and there was no way I could own a jeep.

Maybe in 10years if their rating goes up we will take another look. We are super happy with the 4runner and love it, but at the time of purchase it was a little hard to swallow when you compare the prices and options side by side. Hands down the Jeep gives you way more stuff, but all that stuff breaks.

Brand loyalty played a big factor, we loved the Tacoma (really loved the trade in value after 2.5 years) the dealership here is great to deal with. Had one issue where the fender flare got scratched on the Tacoma during an oil change, the scratch was small enough that touch up paint would have worked but they ordered us a new flare and took care of us without question.


Geez just noticed I went rambling there and probably didn't really help your decision much

Just to summarize we are really happy and glad we went with the 4runner.


The issue we had with the explorer was "this vehicle looks big" then you sit inside and say"what the hell? Are the doors 2 feet thick? Where did all the room go?" plus for car seats the explorer was the exact same size as the Tacoma.

If youre kids are car seat age do not go by the factory seat measurements. I went to every dealer, put the the car seat in the back, put the driver seat in the position I would use and measured from there. On the Toyota website the 4runner and Tacoma show the same legroom, in reality the 4runner has almost a foot more room!(that is with the sliding 2nd row.)
 
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Thanks for that feedback. I feel the same as you do! Here's what happened today:

Test drove the 2013 Ford Explorer. First time ever inside a Ford. It was actually very impressive! I'm still trying to swallow the fact it's a "Ford." Not sure I'll be able to get past that...

Test drove a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. Super fun!!! But some air pressure issues when driving made it a little tiring for my wife, even though she thought it would be fun too. A long road trip would be difficult.

Test drove a JGC. Same as before. Silky smooth and luxurious. Just an awesome ride.

Went to the Toyota dealer to test drive a 4R again, but was met with a slimy sales guy who wanted to talk me into something they had on the lot. Come on!!! Here I am, literally ready to buy, and they have nothing close to what I want on the entire lot. He went inside to grab a key to something we had no interest in, and we made our escape to try a larger Toyota dealer.

We arrived at the largest dealer in the area and were met by a pack of vultures. No other dealer did this to us. It was sick. Anyway, we were told the display was our best option, but it was 2WD, no sunroof, no NAV, and ugly "camel" interior fabric. They'll give me a deal where it's $5K below msrp, but if I purchased in CA, the posted Internet price of only $1K more would get me 4x4, sunroof, NAV, and the 3rd row seats. That's everything I'd possibly want, and even though it's not as nice as the Jeep's interior, I'd have bought it today. I wanted to test drive one again but wasn't able to.

I went to Toyota's website to the "Build Your Toyota" option, and depending on the zip code I get completely different options. And prices. I can't find a way to get even close to what I want. They just take me to dealers who don't have it, where the differences outweigh the similarities by 2 to 1. They have it in CA, but not in TX, and if they have anything remotely more similar the pricing is much, much higher.

I tried calling Toyota, but they were no help at all. I tried emailing them but they obviously don't want emails from people with iPhones or iPads.

I'm so frustrated by Toyota it makes me want to buy something else.

I'll try again tomorrow, but at this point I'm ready to buy a JGC and pay the extra $2800 for the lifetime warranty. I even feel like buying a Ford over a Toyota. I've never owned anything other than a Toyota, so this is a big deal to me. It's as though they just don't want me to buy one.
 
Check out truecar.com ...Put in everything you want and it will give you a price quote garenetee you can take down to that dealer. The dealer I bought my 4R from was not affiliated with the site, but because another competing Toyota dealership was, they beat the price.

I haven't heard of anyone having any incentives on the 4Runner brand yet. Be it a myth or not most dealerships will try to give you a deal toward the end of the month, as they have a quota to hit to move cars. I got (in my opinion) a really good deal on mine, purchased it Dec 26th, so I took advantage of the end of the month and end of year quota making. Worked for me, hoping it works for you too. Can never have too many 4Runner owners. Good luck!
 
gunsmoke said:
Thanks for that feedback. I feel the same as you do! Here's what happened today:

Test drove the 2013 Ford Explorer. First time ever inside a Ford. It was actually very impressive! I'm still trying to swallow the fact it's a "Ford." Not sure I'll be able to get past that...

Test drove a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. Super fun!!! But some air pressure issues when driving made it a little tiring for my wife, even though she thought it would be fun too. A long road trip would be difficult.

Test drove a JGC. Same as before. Silky smooth and luxurious. Just an awesome ride.

Went to the Toyota dealer to test drive a 4R again, but was met with a slimy sales guy who wanted to talk me into something they had on the lot. Come on!!! Here I am, literally ready to buy, and they have nothing close to what I want on the entire lot. He went inside to grab a key to something we had no interest in, and we made our escape to try a larger Toyota dealer.

We arrived at the largest dealer in the area and were met by a pack of vultures. No other dealer did this to us. It was sick. Anyway, we were told the display was our best option, but it was 2WD, no sunroof, no NAV, and ugly "camel" interior fabric. They'll give me a deal where it's $5K below msrp, but if I purchased in CA, the posted Internet price of only $1K more would get me 4x4, sunroof, NAV, and the 3rd row seats. That's everything I'd possibly want, and even though it's not as nice as the Jeep's interior, I'd have bought it today. I wanted to test drive one again but wasn't able to.

I went to Toyota's website to the "Build Your Toyota" option, and depending on the zip code I get completely different options. And prices. I can't find a way to get even close to what I want. They just take me to dealers who don't have it, where the differences outweigh the similarities by 2 to 1. They have it in CA, but not in TX, and if they have anything remotely more similar the pricing is much, much higher.

I tried calling Toyota, but they were no help at all. I tried emailing them but they obviously don't want emails from people with iPhones or iPads.

I'm so frustrated by Toyota it makes me want to buy something else.

I'll try again tomorrow, but at this point I'm ready to buy a JGC and pay the extra $2800 for the lifetime warranty. I even feel like buying a Ford over a Toyota. I've never owned anything other than a Toyota, so this is a big deal to me. It's as though they just don't want me to buy one.
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I get what you mean but in my experience its like this at almost every stealership. If you have a costco membership or a amex card, try going through them to contact dealers for you for no hassles. Or try the ZAG network car buying program and they can help you contact dealerships that you can communicate via email or phone and make sure they have everything you want/need. Gather your quotes and set to work lowering that price!
 
I had an 06 Grand Cherokee and an 07 Jeep Unlimited on 37s (pics in my album).... get the 4runner TRUST ME. The jeep is hella fun but don't plan on any long road trips without going crazy! The 4runner is the best bang for the buck in this pricepoint if you ask me.... and Ford? really? I had a 2010 F150 (in album) and it was a POS from day one!
 
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If you're not planning on doing "serious off-roading" and are mostly interested in additional safety for snow and unpaved roads, some other the other Toyota SUVs like the RAV4 might be worth considering.
 
If I don't end up with a 4Runner it won't be for lack of trying. All day, and no luck. It's incredible. I actually was told by one dealer that they found one the way I wanted it, but since they felt it was so close to a Limited, they would only take $5K off the price of a Limited, rather than sell it at the same price another dealer in CA advertised online.

Jeep is bending over backwards to help me, and mentioned a $2800 lifetime warranty. Soooo tempting.

I don't think I can own a Ford, glowing reviews for the 2013 Explorer be damned. I'm wondering if there's something wrong with me, because it really is a nice vehicle. The only flaw with it is that it says "Ford" on it. But why can't Toyota make the 4R that nice???

Sorry, but a Rav4 will never be an option. My wife had one for a while and it was the most emasculating vehicle I've ever driven. They look better now, but still horrible with that tire on the back.

Now my wife is wanting a Subaru Outback and then I'll be stuck with a station wagon. At least is can climb hills, but ugh.

I'm still trying to find a 4R...

I used all those services and so far the Toyota dealerships are all contacting me with totally different options. I say I want black, so they tell me how they have a white one I can buy. Amazing.
 
gunsmoke said:
If I don't end up with a 4Runner it won't be for lack of trying. All day, and no luck. It's incredible. I actually was told by one dealer that they found one the way I wanted it, but since they felt it was so close to a Limited, they would only take $5K off the price of a Limited, rather than sell it at the same price another dealer in CA advertised online.

Jeep is bending over backwards to help me, and mentioned a $2800 lifetime warranty. Soooo tempting.

I don't think I can own a Ford, glowing reviews for the 2013 Explorer be damned. I'm wondering if there's something wrong with me, because it really is a nice vehicle. The only flaw with it is that it says "Ford" on it. But why can't Toyota make the 4R that nice???

Sorry, but a Rav4 will never be an option. My wife had one for a while and it was the most emasculating vehicle I've ever driven. They look better now, but still horrible with that tire on the back.

Now my wife is wanting a Subaru Outback and then I'll be stuck with a station wagon. At least is can climb hills, but ugh.

I'm still trying to find a 4R...

I used all those services and so far the Toyota dealerships are all contacting me with totally different options. I say I want black, so they tell me how they have a white one I can buy. Amazing.
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Your experience should be a lesson in supply and demand. I had to go over a thousand miles to get the 4runner I wanted.

So, what exactly, are the differences between a RAV4 or Highlander and a current Explorer? :shrug:
 
The differences between a Rav4 & Highlander and the new Explorer - drive them and see if you don't believe me, but the quality of the Explorer, from the perspectives of what you can see and feel and hear, is far superior. It is SO much nicer inside. Even my kids who went on the test drive with me felt it, and they're kids with no filters or "brand loyalty." Granted, they would probably prefer a minivan with two video screens, but I'm not driving a minivan or springing for the screens.

Even I have a difficult time wrapping my head around the feeling of driving a Toyota vs. a Ford, but Toyota needs to get their act together and start making improvements to their interiors. Seriously.

In fact, that's been my #1 gripe against Toyota for the last 20 years I've been driving; their cheap interior. My brand-spankin'-new T100 started rattling the day I drove it off the lot, and the material on both doors started falling off that same week. Still, I drive with a certain level of confidence, but that is starting to fade.

As for building my own, I totally would! But they're telling me it will be even more expensive and they only want to sell me what's on the lot. If they have one they can get in from another dealer, they want me to pay more too. It's always more.

I'm ready to drive over 1,000 miles to get one as well, but no one will tell me where one is. Because THEY want to get it and charge me for them having to go get it. It's BS I tell ya.
 
the Jeep JKU is a slug.... just be aware. even the penstar engine is lackluster. I regeared to 5:13s and it still wasn't highway worthy with 37s They are a blast though. the old 4.0 I6 was then best Jeep engine ever!


that said there are HEMI conversion kits out there lol
 
gunsmoke said:
The differences between a Rav4 & Highlander and the new Explorer - drive them and see if you don't believe me, but the quality of the Explorer, from the perspectives of what you can see and feel and hear, is far superior. It is SO much nicer inside. Even my kids who went on the test drive with me felt it, and they're kids with no filters or "brand loyalty." Granted, they would probably prefer a minivan with two video screens, but I'm not driving a minivan or springing for the screens.

Even I have a difficult time wrapping my head around the feeling of driving a Toyota vs. a Ford, but Toyota needs to get their act together and start making improvements to their interiors. Seriously.

In fact, that's been my #1 gripe against Toyota for the last 20 years I've been driving; their cheap interior. My brand-spankin'-new T100 started rattling the day I drove it off the lot, and the material on both doors started falling off that same week. Still, I drive with a certain level of confidence, but that is starting to fade.

As for building my own, I totally would! But they're telling me it will be even more expensive and they only want to sell me what's on the lot. If they have one they can get in from another dealer, they want me to pay more too. It's always more.

I'm ready to drive over 1,000 miles to get one as well, but no one will tell me where one is. Because THEY want to get it and charge me for them having to go get it. It's BS I tell ya.
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You can ask most people on this forum and they would say they extended their search area A LOT, I live in Las Vegas and I searched everywhere on the west coast, from Seattle to So Cal and I searched for 4 months before a dealer in Flagstaff AZ just happend to e-mail me about a LE. I was looking for a black LE and they contacted me saying they had one, so I emailed him back and we crunched the numbers over the interweb, only to be told they had sold it that morning, BUT they had a Shoreline Blue one with better options that they would be willing to sell me, (Shoreline Blue was my second choice) Anyway I jumped on it and payed $41,000 OTD with all taxes and fees, if the runner is what you want be patient and search around, I even checked CarMax nationwide and saw a few good ones on there too. If you are sold on a 4 Runner it's worth the wait to get what you want, and try and do business over the internet, I actually took my test drives through CarMax, much easier than going to a dealer. Sounds like your still on the fence but I love my 4 Runner.
 
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I just spent over $700 on my T100 to make the long road trip back to CA. The mechanic told me it was ready to go to 300K (it's only 98K now). He also said I should be able to get $10K for it because it's so clean.

Testament to Toyota's reliability and resale value for sure.

You'll all be glad to know I didn't buy the Jeep or Subaru! (Two opposite brands in terms of reliability and aesthetics.)

I guess I'll be searching in CA for a 4R then, but from the sounds of things it's more likely I'll find it there anyway.

Not sure why they're so difficult to find. Seems really strange to me.

Thanks everyone for your input! Now I know I'm not the only one experiencing a difficult time trying to find one...
 
gunsmoke said:
I just spent over $700 on my T100 to make the long road trip back to CA. The mechanic told me it was ready to go to 300K (it's only 98K now). He also said I should be able to get $10K for it because it's so clean.

Testament to Toyota's reliability and resale value for sure.

You'll all be glad to know I didn't buy the Jeep or Subaru! (Two opposite brands in terms of reliability and aesthetics.)

I guess I'll be searching in CA for a 4R then, but from the sounds of things it's more likely I'll find it there anyway.

Not sure why they're so difficult to find. Seems really strange to me.

Thanks everyone for your input! Now I know I'm not the only one experiencing a difficult time trying to find one...
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The last time i checked my local Toyota dealership just got 8 4 runners, 4 trails, 2 SR5's and 2 LE. That was about 2 weeks ago, buy from Las Vegas and you can stay at my place for the night.
 
Funny you mention that - we're staying in Vegas on the 24th and 25th! We're in Santa Fe now and we're going to the Grand Canyon and then Vegas before heading to CA.

A road trip we were hoping to make with a new 4R...

Maybe I'll win a new car in Vegas. :)
 
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