Convince me to get a Toyota...

[bluewolf]

Well, there seems to be a lot of confusion here. The 2005 Grand Cherokee is not the same as the 2004- they share very little- redesigned platform, two new engines, new transmissions, new 4WD systems, as different as the 3rd gen and the 4th gen 4Runners, for the most part. I can almost guarantee that your impressions are based on the 2004 (WJ) Grand Cherokee, not the 2005 (WK)- unless you saw it at the NY auto show or live near Detroit and have seen a test mule running around!

Yes, I've heard about the changes. The point I was trying to make in an obnoxiously sarcastic sort-of way is this: Chrysler has a bad track record with the Jeeps, especially the Grands. I've known and been around many Toyotas and Jeeps alike, and even the most loyal Jeep-enthusiast will never dispute the tremendous difference between the two in regards to reliability (at least, historically). True, the '05 Grand will be an entirely new design, as are the 4th gen 4Runners, and either breed will be subject to flaws and issues because neither have undergone the test of time.

So... for me... I'll take the extra assurance that Toyota's barely-blemished reputation gives me in deciding between two vehicles which are now essentially similar (in size, power, comfort, styling, etc). Our personal issues with the previous model 4Runners have all been resolved in the 4th generation... powerful V8, additional size and comfort, towing strength. Jeep has nothing over Toyota anymore, which made our decision VERY simple.

 

[ScottAW]

Well, there seems to be a lot of confusion here. The 2005 Grand Cherokee is not the same as the 2004- they share very little- redesigned platform, two new engines, new transmissions, new 4WD systems, as different as the 3rd gen and the 4th gen 4Runners, for the most part. I can almost guarantee that your impressions are based on the 2004 (WJ) Grand Cherokee, not the 2005 (WK)- unless you saw it at the NY auto show or live near Detroit and have seen a test mule running around!

New, reliable quality control, and Chrysler products do NOT belong in the same sentence. First year runs of any make or model of a vehicle are always bound to have more problems than average. Hell, even the '03 4-Runners have more problems than the '04s, although on a much different scale than a Chrysler product.

Put it this way, you are comparing a manufacturer with worst than average reliability to a manufacturer with higher than average reliability. The statistics over the years prove this time after time again. You've had good luck with your G.C., which is great - but statistically isn't the norm.

I'm sure you'll be happy with either vehicle though.

 

[Mark86]

To add-on to my previous post, when I was looking at an SUV, my parents did not want me to even go near a Jeep dealer. That just gives you some insight to what problems they had. I misunderstood you though. The 2005 Jeeps are very impressive looking. I am not to fond of the exterior design because it looks like a Durango, but the interior is beautiful. I was sitting in one at the car show and it was very luxurious. Maybe I am weird, I did not find the seats more comfortable than my 4Runners. I did find the interior more appealing though.

Here is a list of SUV's I was thinking of at the time:
1. 4Runner
2. Lexus RX330
3. Nissan Murano
4. Highlander

First was the 4Runner and I felt very comfortable in it. I decided to try the Highlander since I was there, but my mind was made up when I went into the 4Runner.


This is only my opinion and I am not trying to convince you to get the 4Runner. I am just giving you examples of my experiences with the companies.

 

[uwf]

I can say that the paint on my truck is SUPER tough. I have done stuff to this thing that surely should have taken the PRIMER off, but it just barely scratched it.

1) it sounds like you get bored with vehicles pretty quick. I guarantee that you will not get anything near what you payed for cherokee (unless you bought it used). The 4runner has proven to hold its value. So, moral of the story, in a couple of years when you get bored with the 4runner, you will get more for it.

2) Why did Jeep almost go out of business if they use the highest quality materials.

3) daimler/chrysler is notorious for engineering their vehicles so that the consumer can not work on them. The new V8 4runner (cuz I own one) can be easily worked on. Just look in the engine bays and compare.

4) Even if you get the hemi, how much does the jeep weigh. I know that the ram weighs almost 6500 lbs. In my mind, that damn thing better have the hemi!!!! The 4runner weighs in at 4300 lbs.

5) Please don't tell me that you like the jeep interior better. Toyota interior materials are so much better. Oh, judging from the pics of the 05 interior, it surprisingly looks almost looks like the 4runner interior. Hmmm!!!!

in short, the only daimler/chrysler vehicle I would buy is the viper, ram srt/10, or an actual mercedes.

take care,

joseph

 

[uwf]

oh, I paid 32,500 + ttl. it came with sunroof, leather, 6-disc changer, rear cargo shelf, 10 speaker system, , floormats, rear seat audio, V8, and 4-wheel drive.

later, joseph

 

[Kanab]

oh, I paid 32,500 + ttl. it came with sunroof, leather, 6-disc changer, rear cargo shelf, 10 speaker system, , floormats, rear seat audio, V8, and 4-wheel drive.

later, joseph

What was the sticker price on your 4runner?

 

[EDGE]

I might be the only 4Runner owner to tell you to get the 05 Hemi Grand Cherokee: your already a Jeep owner so that falls in your favor and you don't plan on keeping the Jeep for longer then 4 years with nomore then 72k on it and this whole quality, reliability, long term thing is great and all but isn't that all for the actual long term ownership of longer then 5 years and more then 70,000 miles.

They are discounting it so if it cost less with resale, who cares does it really shock you that they discount it 4 grand and the resale value is less of a similar 4Runner.

Im for the newer is better and the next GC is suppost to be a corporate twin of the Mercedes M-Class truck, minus a few benz parts like the engine and interior:

For the Jeeps, I have several friends who own V8 Limiteds and got them for like 35k, and they have only been back to the dealer for their oil change every 7k

I can't tell you anything bad about Jeeps cause all my friends who owned them always had anything fixed under warranty when it was in for maintenance and then before they had any real mileage on them they where traded.

I do know the Chrysler techs would not touch the cars they fix but the same can be said for the German techs, coming from that field most techs drive Japanese cars except for the Toyota head tech who drives an F-250.

This being a 4Runner board all say 4Runner, what do the Grand Cherokee guys say, do you have a link.

bluewolf
no way their selling loaded Limited V8 models for 22k, you could buy that turn around and make a profit of here, and their are tons of used 4Runners for sale probably cause they go for an average of 5 grand more then similar Explorers and have twice the mileage, the normal uninformed consumer thinks the best buy is lower mileage, less money

 

[Andrew]

Thanks for the responses.

bluewolf- I definitely got (and laughed with) your sarcasm in your first post, but you did subtly make some good points. Rationally, the Toyota makes more sense as it will hold its value better and it will be more reliable in the long run. Irrationally, I like the Jeep a lot, but I've never driven one (and I can't drive one yet- no way in hell can I march up to DC HQ and ask to drive a pre-production Jeep!).

EDGE: the Jeep and Mercedes will not share a platform. The Jeep is a unibody with a solid rear axle; the current Mercedes is a body-on-frame with IFS/IRS- I believe the next one is expected to be the same. Jeep benefits from Mercedes' engineering expertise- and it's evident in the Jeep's interior. The seats, for example, look just like Mercedes seats.

Ahh, such a tough decision! This thread has, as I've said before, given me lots to think about as I make my decision. Now I wonder what this thread would have been like had I said "Tell me why to buy a 4Runner over a TrailBlazer!" hehe. I appreciate the respect given to the Jeep, for the most part. I don't have a specific Jeep v. Toyota thread to link to from the Jeep forum, but they likewise gave lukewarm praise to the Toyota- I think the general consensus is that Toyota and Jeep really do build the best "still rugged" SUVs on the road.

 

[bluewolf]

bluewolf
no way their selling loaded Limited V8 models for 22k, you could buy that turn around and make a profit of here, and their are tons of used 4Runners for sale probably cause they go for an average of 5 grand more then similar Explorers and have twice the mileage, the normal uninformed consumer thinks the best buy is lower mileage, less money

Way! Saw it in a local dealer add in the paper last weekend. It didn't shock me, since our Toyota dealership just sold my '02 Laredo w/ 25,000 miles for $15K. I'm curious enough to take a drive across town on my lunch hour and see if it's still there. I can tell you, Jeeps a PLENTIFUL up here. Perhaps thats part of the reason they don't etch much here (unless they're new, of course).

 

[Andrew]

Way! Saw it in a local dealer add in the paper last weekend. It didn't shock me, since our Toyota dealership just sold my '02 Laredo w/ 25,000 miles for $15K. I'm curious enough to take a drive across town on my lunch hour and see if it's still there. I can tell you, Jeeps a PLENTIFUL up here. Perhaps thats part of the reason they don't etch much here (unless they're new, of course).

Yeah, 22k is not unreasonable... but consider that although the MSRP was probably 38k, the selling price was probably much closer to 31k...

I was offered 18k for my 02 with 25k a little over a month ago. Jeep resales are not great, but they're not as bad as everyone thinks- just don't pay MSRP for one new! The problem is that Jeep (like all domestics) relies heavily on rebates- a great short term solution for stagnate sales, but they don't "pay" off in the long run.

Now if your Toyota dealership sold your 02 for $15k, somebody got a GREAT deal... what did they give you for it? couldn't have been more than $13k...

 

[bluewolf]

Now if your Toyota dealership sold your 02 for $15k, somebody got a GREAT deal... what did they give you for it? couldn't have been more than $13k...

$13.5K. Took a bath, like I said. Kelly Blue book on the vehicle (for this region, anyway) is $12.5K... I couldn't believe my eyes! When we decided we did not want to deal with the Jeep headaches any longer, we debated heavily whether to trade it to a dealer or try to sell it privately.

Similar Jeeps in the Auto Trader were asking anywhere from $15K to $17K, and they were in great numbers. We took the high amount ($17K), deducted a negotiation loss, (maybe $1.5K since they are so readily available), not to mention the "headache" factor of having to deal with phone calls, test drives, etc. (worth at least $500 to me) and that left us with $15K.

Then considered the trade in $13.5K and added the $1.5K we saved for the tax-deduction... $15K. We considered it a wash, saved ourselves the headache, took it in the shorts and handed the dealer our keys.

 

[roccos_van]

If you need to be 'convinced' to buy a 4runner, you shouldn't buy one.

You won't be happy, as every time you see an '05 grand drive by, you'll wish you had one.

Wait for the '05 to be avail, test drive it and THEN compare!!!!!!!!!

Marco.

 

[ckon]

If you need to 'convinced' to buy a 4runner, you shouldn't buy one.

You won't be happy, as every time you see an '05 grand drive by, you'll wish you had one.

Wait for the '05 to be avail, test drive it and THEN compare!!!!!!!!!

Marco.

I think you're right on. Buyer's remorse will probably rear it's ugly head if he buys the Toy.

 

[jclark]

Lol, a jeep using better quality materials than a toyota? Come on, no fairy tales please My father owned 2 jeep cherokee's, both were the largest waste of metal I ever seen. He had Transmission issues, brake problems it had more rattles than a Lada and that was after barely a year of driving.

I looked at everything out there including the Jeep offering, and the jeep GC did not drive nearly as nice, and felt a heck of a lot cheaper inside. No offense to those that like Chrysler products, but in my experience they are certainly not anywhere near toyota in terms of quality.

 

[mam4994]

2002 Jeep GC

I used to own a 2002 Jeep Grand fully loaded. But when I had brake problems around 4,000 miles, and the rotors needed to be replaced at 36,001 miles(after the 36,000 mile warranty). I decided to wise up and trade the HEEP, while there was still SOME value. Haven't looked back since. In addition the entire interior of the HEEP was falling apart. So don't tell me I don't understand that HEEP thing, because I do and I purchased a 4Runner.

All I can say is this: All of Toyota sales are increasing, so Toyota must be doing something right.

 

[uwf]

hey pitbull,

sticker was something like $36,500. I went into the dealership with ammo, and hit the right targets. I am completely happy with the truck.

Take care, all.