GrantK
New member
Have to wait for 1engineer for your answer, but when you reduce your unsprung weight, you get a better ride and overall improvement in handling.
Countersteer Type X HELP PLEASE!!!
- Thread starter ||ReT4Ribution||
- Start date
Have to wait for 1engineer for your answer, but when you reduce your unsprung weight, you get a better ride and overall improvement in handling.
||ReT4Ribution||
New member
yeah I wish I could experance it... GRRRR
joneseyyy
New member
Hmmmm, that is almost a direct offset to my upgrade from 265/70/17 duratracs (c) to 285/70/17 duratracs (d) 44lbs-53lbs.
Now I need to figure out as a total % of unsprung weight.
||ReT4Ribution||
New member
Ok been doing some more research...
and found these gems...
Balancing Your Tires: Haweka Adapter
TSB-SU002-96.pdf
Hunter GSP9700 Wheel vibration Control System solves wheel vibration and tire pull problems that balancers and aligners can't fix
BEST part is my local dealer has an old road force, but its not hooked up and collecting dust cause they have a newer NON road force balancer AND they dont have the Haweka adapter, that the 16 year old TSB says they have to use on ALL models...
My game plan for tomarrow and this weekend.
-Going to use link #3 to generate a call log of all the shops that have a road force in my area.
-Start calling around asking if they have the adapter I need, if no... click.
-Then go to whom ever can meet my balancing requirement for ALL my future busness.
and if that fails... :gun6: or ill go see DUCMONSTA in VA
and found these gems...
Balancing Your Tires: Haweka Adapter
TSB-SU002-96.pdf
Hunter GSP9700 Wheel vibration Control System solves wheel vibration and tire pull problems that balancers and aligners can't fix
BEST part is my local dealer has an old road force, but its not hooked up and collecting dust cause they have a newer NON road force balancer AND they dont have the Haweka adapter, that the 16 year old TSB says they have to use on ALL models...
My game plan for tomarrow and this weekend.
-Going to use link #3 to generate a call log of all the shops that have a road force in my area.
-Start calling around asking if they have the adapter I need, if no... click.
-Then go to whom ever can meet my balancing requirement for ALL my future busness.
and if that fails... :gun6: or ill go see DUCMONSTA in VA
limamike
New member
You'll spend less time just going to see Ducmonsta than calling around and trying to figure-out who has what you need. Frederick to NoVA is ~100 mins roundtrip.
GrantK
New member
Good info, thanks for doing the research. There are plenty of shops listed in my area. Since 4Rs and Toyotas in general are common around here there should be a shop with the proper adapter for when I have new tires mounted (Konig or not).
||ReT4Ribution||
New member
No disrespect to you DUCMONSTA or anything but...
Superior Auto Service told me that they have both the Road Force balancer and the adapter I need AND not only are they local but they are next to my favorite beer brewery. Flying Dog Brewery
It will give me somthing to do while I wait, other than pace. :beer:
Now that I think I found the right equipment and shop, I have another question for you awsome people out there...
Do I:
A. Go Monday (when they said they could do it) get the balance corrected and keep the "push in, from behind" center caps W/O the hub centric spacer rings (konig wheel guy is shipping them)
OR
B. Wait for the rings to be shiped to me (prob 6+ days) get the balance corrected and mount W/O center caps and with rings (rings couldnt hurt right?)
(Note: centering rings wont allow use of the center cap)
Thanks
Superior Auto Service told me that they have both the Road Force balancer and the adapter I need AND not only are they local but they are next to my favorite beer brewery. Flying Dog Brewery
It will give me somthing to do while I wait, other than pace. :beer:
Now that I think I found the right equipment and shop, I have another question for you awsome people out there...
Do I:
A. Go Monday (when they said they could do it) get the balance corrected and keep the "push in, from behind" center caps W/O the hub centric spacer rings (konig wheel guy is shipping them)
OR
B. Wait for the rings to be shiped to me (prob 6+ days) get the balance corrected and mount W/O center caps and with rings (rings couldnt hurt right?)
(Note: centering rings wont allow use of the center cap)
Thanks
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GrantK
New member
No disrespect to you DUCMONSTA or anything but...
Superior Auto Service told me that they have both the Road Force balancer and the adapter I need AND not only are they local but they are next to my favorite beer brewery. Flying Dog Brewery
It will give me somthing to do while I wait, other than pace. :beer:
Now that I think I found the right equipment and shop, I have another question for you awsome people out there...
Do I:
A. Go Monday (when they said they could do it) get the balance corrected and keep the "push in, from behind" center caps W/O the hub centric spacer rings (provided by the wheel guy)
OR
B. Wait for the rings to be shiped to me (prob 6+ days) get the balance corrected and mount W/O center caps and with rings (rings couldnt hurt right?)
Thanks
Get er done!
You can always take off the wheels and mount the caps when they come in. They shouldn't change the balance enough to be noticed. Besides, you'll want to re-torque them yourself just to be sure.
Ducmonsta
New member
No disrespect to you DUCMONSTA or anything but...
Thanks
None taken.
The push through center caps will only make a difference if they don't fit "over" the toyota hubs. By the description of these hub ring spacers, you should not be having problems with your wheel.
harper7
Senior Member
No disrespect to you DUCMONSTA or anything but...
Superior Auto Service told me that they have both the Road Force balancer and the adapter I need AND not only are they local but they are next to my favorite beer brewery. Flying Dog Brewery
It will give me somthing to do while I wait, other than pace. :beer:
Now that I think I found the right equipment and shop, I have another question for you awsome people out there...
Do I:
A. Go Monday (when they said they could do it) get the balance corrected and keep the "push in, from behind" center caps W/O the hub centric spacer rings (provided by the wheel guy)
OR
B. Wait for the rings to be shiped to me (prob 6+ days) get the balance corrected and mount W/O center caps and with rings (rings couldnt hurt right?)
Thanks
I would pick "A"
Just make sure the generic center caps and o-rings if they have them are not what is causing the problem. Make sure they fit over the 106mm wheel hub and when pushed in the wheel they should sit flush with the backside of the wheel. My ones from Konig were big ugly chromed dome birth control ones with a "K" sticker???
I bought a set of the 110mm to 106mm hub centric spacer rings off ebay when I bought the wheels, more for wheel security, but never used them and they balanced perfectly.
Took my Konig/Duratracs back to Discount Tire for a free 3k mile check balance and rotation a couple of weeks ago and still perfect.They used the right adapter of course.
Really great research and links on the balance procedures ||ReT4Ribution|| ! This thread with those links should set a precedent for 4Runner wheel balancing for years to come.I know I learned something. :guitar3:
BTW ,I weighed these Konig X's wheels on my postal scale when I got them and they weighed 20lbs 2oz. each compared to almost 30lbs for the oem's and 27+ lbs for the ATX Mojave's.
Here is what Centerline has to say about wheel weight since our engineer must be out tracking windshield rain drops again and hasn't pitched in....lol
Q: Why is the weight of wheels important?
A: Wheels are rotating mass/unsprung weight. Every 1 lb reduction in rotating mass is equivalent to an approximately 8 lb reduction in static weight. With lighter weight wheels, you will benefit from increased fuel savings, quicker braking, improved tire wear and better acceleration.
I dropped almost 20lbs per wheel coming from Mojave/305 KM2's and to be honest my mpg gain was not earth shattering as some would suppose. Maybe 1/2 mpg at best but it's hard to really say as we are getting this junk winter gas and I put the Duratracs on just last November. Feels peppier though but I do miss my KM2's :frisky:
||ReT4Ribution||
New member
If my math is right, that means I roughly decresses my theoretical sprung weight by...
number crunch...
number crunch...
316lbs :toilet:
number crunch...
number crunch...
316lbs :toilet:
||ReT4Ribution||
New member
Thanks, maybe ill make a dedicated post so people dont have to read thru me crying and ranting to find information that is CRITICAL for a good balance for lug centric wheels!
GrantK
New member
Well (or is that wheel?)...
I talked to Dustin at FN today and ordered:
*) Countersteer Type X 17x8 -10 6x139.7 MATTE BLACK
*) SHORT CENTER CAP FOR COUNTERSTEER TYPE X - BLACK
*) GORILLA BLACK SD 12X1.5 LUG NUTS W/ KEY
*) GORILLA BLACK SD 12X1.5 WHEEL LOCKS
$899.00 including shipping.
Dustin was very helpful, making sure everything would fit and answering all me dumbass questions.
3-5 week wait, but I'm still waiting for my T4R anyway so it's not a real issue, other than me being spoiled and wanting thing right NOW!
I hope I don't run into balancing issues
I talked to Dustin at FN today and ordered:
*) Countersteer Type X 17x8 -10 6x139.7 MATTE BLACK
*) SHORT CENTER CAP FOR COUNTERSTEER TYPE X - BLACK
*) GORILLA BLACK SD 12X1.5 LUG NUTS W/ KEY
*) GORILLA BLACK SD 12X1.5 WHEEL LOCKS
$899.00 including shipping.
Dustin was very helpful, making sure everything would fit and answering all me dumbass questions.
3-5 week wait, but I'm still waiting for my T4R anyway so it's not a real issue, other than me being spoiled and wanting thing right NOW!
I hope I don't run into balancing issues
||ReT4Ribution||
New member
I installed on stock rubber and stock height, there are no fitment issues.
Balancing on the other hand......
Personally... DO NOT settle for less than a LUG CENTRIC balance on a ROAD FORCE balancer. You could go hub centeric (standard method), just make sure you get hub rings...but then you cant use the center caps.
I had my balance done several times before getting it done right, and man can I tell a diff... Its so smooth!
I also had the wheel weights done staticly (inside and outside hammer ons) vs. dynamicly (hammer on inside + sickys) and just used black touch up paint on the weights to hide them (other then being 1ft away, you cant tell) the guy explained to me that because of the offset almost half the wheel cant be balanced dynamicly unless you counter balance and chase weights which isnt correct. I agreed. Some people feel hammer ons on the outside, defeats the point of a aftermarket wheel (messes up the finished look) but then why have a lip specificly for the weights? to each their own.
Also I was told my right rear is football shaped... but it was still able to be balanced out. (took 3 diff. people to figure this out...) talked to dustin, he wants me to buy a new one, un mount the football, mount the new one, send him the football, he will check it, and if it is a defect he will reemburst me for the wheel and football shipping. BUT if he claims its fine then i get stuck with the cost of the new wheel, the shippment of the football to and from ect. ect. Im thinking ill just buy a new one, move the balanced football to my spare and put the new wheel on my right wheel and call it DONE!
All i know at this point, is that something as simple as buying new wheels and installing them couldnt have been more of a PIMA!!!
It has really put me off from doing any more performance mods any time soon
Balancing on the other hand......
Personally... DO NOT settle for less than a LUG CENTRIC balance on a ROAD FORCE balancer. You could go hub centeric (standard method), just make sure you get hub rings...but then you cant use the center caps.
I had my balance done several times before getting it done right, and man can I tell a diff... Its so smooth!
I also had the wheel weights done staticly (inside and outside hammer ons) vs. dynamicly (hammer on inside + sickys) and just used black touch up paint on the weights to hide them (other then being 1ft away, you cant tell) the guy explained to me that because of the offset almost half the wheel cant be balanced dynamicly unless you counter balance and chase weights which isnt correct. I agreed. Some people feel hammer ons on the outside, defeats the point of a aftermarket wheel (messes up the finished look) but then why have a lip specificly for the weights? to each their own.
Also I was told my right rear is football shaped... but it was still able to be balanced out. (took 3 diff. people to figure this out...) talked to dustin, he wants me to buy a new one, un mount the football, mount the new one, send him the football, he will check it, and if it is a defect he will reemburst me for the wheel and football shipping. BUT if he claims its fine then i get stuck with the cost of the new wheel, the shippment of the football to and from ect. ect. Im thinking ill just buy a new one, move the balanced football to my spare and put the new wheel on my right wheel and call it DONE!
All i know at this point, is that something as simple as buying new wheels and installing them couldnt have been more of a PIMA!!!
It has really put me off from doing any more performance mods any time soon
4ShoreRunner
New member
You have me worried about these Countersteers - hoping I don't go through the same headaches. Definitely going to Duc for this one!
||ReT4Ribution||
New member
I hope no one goes thru what I did...
These wheels are AWESOME!!!
But if I had to do it all over and my advise to all who buy new wheels no matter the brand:
1. Have the wheels checked before mounting, to make sure there is no problems.
2. Dont be in a rush to mount, do your homework on the tire shops in your area.
3. Make sure they balance using a lug centric adapter and a road force balancer
4. Have them hand torque using a torque wrench slowly around the correct pattern, when they say "we use a torque stick" tell them "thats a cool story, now do it how i want it as i am paying you"
If i would have known what i know now and followed the steps listed above, i dont think i would have had any problems
These wheels are AWESOME!!!
But if I had to do it all over and my advise to all who buy new wheels no matter the brand:
1. Have the wheels checked before mounting, to make sure there is no problems.
2. Dont be in a rush to mount, do your homework on the tire shops in your area.
3. Make sure they balance using a lug centric adapter and a road force balancer
4. Have them hand torque using a torque wrench slowly around the correct pattern, when they say "we use a torque stick" tell them "thats a cool story, now do it how i want it as i am paying you"
If i would have known what i know now and followed the steps listed above, i dont think i would have had any problems
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Ukie
New member
More info please...did you have any issues with wheels prior to mounting?
1engineer
Moderator
Haha! I have been working on a project - sorry. Usually 8-10:1 is the general rule of thumb for unsprung mass to normal mass of vehicle. Our vehicles are heavy so the weight of a person or two are usually no big deal but every little bit helps in the pursuit of efficiency. You should see 5% or so when you get back to running your normal fuel. Does not sound like much but that's like several free dinners every year.
On the raindrop thing - apparently nobody but me cares to look, ahem, "eccentric" on here but apparently there were several people interested in that raindrop post. Many pm'd me with questions. Did not want their name in that thread though I guess lol. I also think sales of the Orange RainX washer fluid went up too based on the pm'd comments. Sorry to hijack, carry on.
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sirhamlet
New member
I really like the look of the konig countersteer x and how light they are. It's a nice offset on the increased tire weight. My concern is the amount of weight used to balance these wheels.
-Did you happen to notice if yours had more than usual amount of weight added to balance?
-Do you think the amount of weight added is because of the build quality? Maybe it’s the combination of the tire.
-Would like to know if you could balance the wheel first to see how much weight is needed and then add the tires and see what the diff is. At least we could see if it’s the wheels that are off.
-I’ve had purchased several aftermarket wheels and never had as much weight added for a balance. Before I buy the countersteer, I would like a piece of mind that the quality of the product is true.
-Did you happen to notice if yours had more than usual amount of weight added to balance?
-Do you think the amount of weight added is because of the build quality? Maybe it’s the combination of the tire.
-Would like to know if you could balance the wheel first to see how much weight is needed and then add the tires and see what the diff is. At least we could see if it’s the wheels that are off.
-I’ve had purchased several aftermarket wheels and never had as much weight added for a balance. Before I buy the countersteer, I would like a piece of mind that the quality of the product is true.
