Dealership Mishap

[Cheers!]

An extended warranty is worth like $1500 retail. Meaning it is probably marked up like 100%. Also the $500 bux cash is BS.

This is how you calculate diminished value.

How insurance companies calculate diminished value claims | The Kielich Law Firm ? Bedford, Texas

"17c"

If your car is going to be branded with a repair against it's vehicle history, you might as well tell the GM that you want to go through their dealership insurance, and then submit a diminished value claim against their insurance. I doubt that the dealership will want to pony up that much cash on a diminished value claim without a court date.

Also I see that you are in NY. Which means winter, which means salt belt. Every vehicle I have ever come across with a collision repair that involved sanding and painting resulted in that same spot being rusty after around 2 winters. It doesn't matter if it is a Mazda, Toyota, VW, Ford whatever. That exact same spot where the metal was reworked always starts to rust quickly. The hatch area that needs to be repaired means the body shop will need to metal work and sand all the way to the edges of the rear hatch. This means the edges will be left without much rust protection other than simple primer, paint (and hopefully no bondo). This means that nice factory galvanized metal is no longer intact. Which means the nice hot dip galvanic coating is gone. Which means quick rust.

If you go through proper insurance instead of back door deals at least you can hide behind the lifetime guarantee of insurance companies and/or body shops, such that when the same spot starts to rust you can take the car back and have them fix the rust.

 

[Cheers!]

An extended warranty is worth like $1500 retail. Meaning it is probably marked up like 100%. Also the $500 bux cash is BS.

This is how you calculate diminished value.

How insurance companies calculate diminished value claims | The Kielich Law Firm ? Bedford, Texas

"17c"

If your car is going to be branded with a repair against it's vehicle history, you might as well tell the GM that you want to go through their dealership insurance, and then submit a diminished value claim against their insurance. I doubt that the dealership will want to pony up that much cash on a diminished value claim without a court date.

Also I see that you are in NY. Which means winter, which means salt belt. Every vehicle I have ever come across with a collision repair that involved sanding and painting resulted in that same spot being rusty after around 2 winters. It doesn't matter if it is a Mazda, Toyota, VW, Ford whatever. That exact same spot where the metal was reworked always starts to rust quickly. The hatch area that needs to be repaired means the body shop will need to metal work and sand all the way to the edges of the rear hatch. This means the edges will be left without much rust protection other than simple primer, paint (and hopefully no bondo). This means that nice factory galvanized metal is no longer intact. Which means the nice hot dip galvanic coating is gone. Which means quick rust.

If you go through proper insurance instead of back door deals at least you can hide behind the lifetime guarantee of insurance companies and/or body shops, such that when the same spot starts to rust you can take the car back and have them fix the rust.

Sorry for quoting myself. What I meant to say is this is what the insurance company will use to set $ of diminished value claim. What you need to do is not let them use this calculator.

 

[emt60]

An extended warranty is worth like $1500 retail. Meaning it is probably marked up like 100%. Also the $500 bux cash is BS.

This is how you calculate diminished value.

How insurance companies calculate diminished value claims | The Kielich Law Firm ? Bedford, Texas

"17c"

If your car is going to be branded with a repair against it's vehicle history, you might as well tell the GM that you want to go through their dealership insurance, and then submit a diminished value claim against their insurance. I doubt that the dealership will want to pony up that much cash on a diminished value claim without a court date.

Also I see that you are in NY. Which means winter, which means salt belt. Every vehicle I have ever come across with a collision repair that involved sanding and painting resulted in that same spot being rusty after around 2 winters. It doesn't matter if it is a Mazda, Toyota, VW, Ford whatever. That exact same spot where the metal was reworked always starts to rust quickly. The hatch area that needs to be repaired means the body shop will need to metal work and sand all the way to the edges of the rear hatch. This means the edges will be left without much rust protection other than simple primer, paint (and hopefully no bondo). This means that nice factory galvanized metal is no longer intact. Which means the nice hot dip galvanic coating is gone. Which means quick rust.

If you go through proper insurance instead of back door deals at least you can hide behind the lifetime guarantee of insurance companies and/or body shops, such that when the same spot starts to rust you can take the car back and have them fix the rust.

I read that info on 17c. Very interesting. I'm still thinking that I'm in the 1500-2000 range for loss of value.

As far as the repair, that is a huge concern of mine. That I no longer have factory paint etc. One of the reasons I am considering having them swap my hatch with one from a new Trail. Assuming they can swap my speakers and key cylinder from my TEP which I don't think is a big deal. I'd rather have a mismatched vin labeled hatch then body repair work and paint.

 

[Granth77]

Ask them for a new hatch, make sure they do a good job, and cal it a day. Unless there was an insurance claim or accident report, your Carfax will be clean. In my opinion, there's no reason why they owe you anything more than a good repair job and a solid apology. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[MSinDC]

I read that info on 17c. Very interesting. I'm still thinking that I'm in the 1500-2000 range for loss of value.

As far as the repair, that is a huge concern of mine. That I no longer have factory paint etc. One of the reasons I am considering having them swap my hatch with one from a new Trail. Assuming they can swap my speakers and key cylinder from my TEP which I don't think is a big deal. I'd rather have a mismatched vin labeled hatch then body repair work and paint.

Don't go by 17C at all.

I got rear ended in March and just went through the process for the damage attached - Turned out to be about $3,000 worth since they had to replace the bumper too. Yours looks like similar damage and since it's dented in the bend it should mean a new hatch.

I was pretty hot at the high schooler that did that to my less-than-a-year-old ride, but dealt with Allstate to get it done and came out somewhat pleased (as much as possible I guess). I had concerns about the back window operation, back wiper, etc. etc. just like you, but Allstate listed an ASE certified body shop as one of their "preferred" places that I took it to - this "preferred" status means that Allstate will provide a warranty on the work performed for the life of the vehicle (or as long as you own it).

Anyway, they did a pretty good job - Then I hit them with the diminished value claim. I paid for a service to appraise my truck, and then submitted a claim based on their valuation of $2,200. Allstate initially offered me $400, but after about 5-6 letters back and forth and me threatening to take them to small claims court I settled on $1,550. With that amount of damage I'd say realistically you might could get $1,000-$1,500.

All this to say, file a claim with their insurance company and get it fixed if that's your only option. You have to get it fixed in order to file a diminished value claim (I'm not sure a shady "swap out the hatches" deal would apply).

 

[Cheers!]

I doubt that the dealership will swap the gate of a brand new on the lot 4runner that matches your paint. Then the dealership is stuck with a vehicle with non matching VINs that they can not sell as new.

Best bet is ask for a brand new Toyota original OEM hatch. That way it has the galvanized coating. It will be missing a VIN tag (I think OEM original Toyota replacement panels don't have VIN on them?). I've seen too many repairs on reworked metal get rusty over the years. Unless you have a vintage Porsche 911 where numbers matching is important, I would opt for a brand new hatch and new bumper even though the VINs don't match.

As a food for thought... I wonder what happens when sometimes vehicles get messed up after leaving the factory and on the way to the showroom. I.e. the boat, the train... etc... when it gets messed up there I know the factory fixes the vehicle and I believe that they do not replace panels and just rework the metal. I wonder how they get around all this BS of rust and having it look like new again.

 

[Granth77]

As a food for thought... I wonder what happens when sometimes vehicles get messed up after leaving the factory and on the way to the showroom. I.e. the boat, the train... etc... when it gets messed up there I know the factory fixes the vehicle and I believe that they do not replace panels and just rework the metal. I wonder how they get around all this BS of rust and having it look like new again.

When a vehicle gets damaged in transit to the dealer, the dealer writes up the damage and sends it to the transport company for their insurance to pay. Then, the vehicle goes to the body shop to get fixed. You would be surprised how often this happens. I was the manager overseeing new vehicles for 7 years at a Toyota dealer. Stuff happens, we fix it, then sell the car. From what I remember, we would probably have to paint on one car a month.

This damage does not need to be disclosed to the customer unless its catastrophic. We only had two instances of damage being too severe to sell (both cars hit an overpass).

 

[Bootleg]

And thats why I shared this story, that at least sometimes there is a glimmer of hope for some dearlerships. The dealer is Cloniger Toyota in Salisbury, NC.

Good to know. I'm in Winston and usually take mine to Modern Toyota but I'm not very happy with those guys at the moment. They misquoted the labor on a brake install by over half and tried to charge me over double the quote, to the tune of $450 for installation only and oil change. I was quoted $170. Service writer argued that $170 was per axle....Luckily a friend was the tech that did the install and he took care of me. Unlucky was the fact they made him eat half the job to do it.... :wtf: I still owe him lunch.

Service writers at Modern are a bunch of moronic arse-hats but the techs are actually quite good.

 

[tamerunner]

Good to know. I'm in Winston and usually take mine to Modern Toyota but I'm not very happy with those guys at the moment. They misquoted the labor on a brake install by over half and tried to charge me over double the quote, to the tune of $450 for installation only and oil change. I was quoted $170. Service writer argued that $170 was per axle....Luckily a friend was the tech that did the install and he took care of me. Unlucky was the fact they made him eat half the job to do it.... :wtf: I still owe him lunch.

Service writers at Modern are a bunch of moronic arse-hats but the techs are actually quite good.

That's also good to know for me. I bought mine from Modern in Boone. Haven't been to Winston though. I've a few encounters with them again in Salisbury that I guess overall they try but I don't know if I'm still happy to go there.

 

[emt60]

I doubt that the dealership will swap the gate of a brand new on the lot 4runner that matches your paint. Then the dealership is stuck with a vehicle with non matching VINs that they can not sell as new.

While I agree with you that is creates an additional problem for them, if they are willing to do it, I think this is my best option, short of getting a new vehicle which they have made clear they will not do. I'm assuming they will take my hatch, fix it up, and put it back on the new vehicle to sell.

Going to be speaking with the service manager tomorrow to hopefully get this set up.

Does anyone know of any differences in the hatch I should be aware of between the Trail & Trail Premium? Only thing I believe is different are the speakers, and obviously they have to swap the key cylinder too.

 

[HerT4R]

While I agree with you that is creates an additional problem for them, if they are willing to do it, I think this is my best option, short of getting a new vehicle which they have made clear they will not do. I'm assuming they will take my hatch, fix it up, and put it back on the new vehicle to sell.

Going to be speaking with the service manager tomorrow to hopefully get this set up.

Does anyone know of any differences in the hatch I should be aware of between the Trail & Trail Premium? Only thing I believe is different are the speakers, and obviously they have to swap the key cylinder too.

if i was you i would verify all differences and verify everything works and that everything is properly done (like most would with any repairs done to their vehicle).

I also am surprised a dealer would do this for you, because it means they will now have 2 screwed up vehicles to deal with instead of one... this surprises me that they would knowingly screw up another vehicle... Makes me feel like this may be a shady dealer, who would sell the mismatched VINs 4Runner as new to an unsuspecting buyer... and that's F'ed up.

let us know how it goes. op2:

 

[emt60]

if i was you i would verify all differences and verify everything works and that everything is properly done (like most would with any repairs done to their vehicle).

I also am surprised a dealer would do this for you, because it means they will now have 2 screwed up vehicles to deal with instead of one... this surprises me that they would knowingly screw up another vehicle... Makes me feel like this may be a shady dealer, who would sell the mismatched VINs 4Runner as new to an unsuspecting buyer... and that's F'ed up.

let us know how it goes. op2:

Agree 100%. I told the service manager this morning that I wanted to hang out and watch the process, he had no problem with it. Part of the problem he said is until they open up my hatch and compare it to the other hatch, they don't know exactly what the work entails. If they just have to swap speakers, or if they have to swap the wiring as well. He said the only thing the computer shows is there are different part #s for the speakers (premium audio vs. non-premium I think), but it didn't really describe differences in the wiring/wiring harness.

Yes, I am surprised they are willing to do this, but the bottom line is i'm not going to question it. I'm looking to get my truck repaired the best possible way, and this certainly seems like it.

Will advise what happens tomorrow.

 

[emt60]

Took it to the dealer today, and everything seems great now. Was there close to four hours, but they told me upfront it would take a while, as they wanted to be careful with the hatch, etc.

They showed me the insides of both hatches before they swapped, and the speakers as well. They said the speakers on the Trail and my Trail Premium were identical, but they swapped my speakers into the new hatch anyway.

Interesting - we looked, and there did not appear to be a VIN tag anywhere on the hatch, even on the inside. If there is one, it is definitely hidden somewhere.

All in all, actually seems like they did a good job. Even used some touch up paint on the bolts they used to try and hide any sign of a repair.

 

[Eagle62]

Took it to the dealer today, and everything seems great now. Was there close to four hours, but they told me upfront it would take a while, as they wanted to be careful with the hatch, etc.

They showed me the insides of both hatches before they swapped, and the speakers as well. They said the speakers on the Trail and my Trail Premium were identical, but they swapped my speakers into the new hatch anyway.

Interesting - we looked, and there did not appear to be a VIN tag anywhere on the hatch, even on the inside. If there is one, it is definitely hidden somewhere.

All in all, actually seems like they did a good job. Even used some touch up paint on the bolts they used to try and hide any sign of a repair.

I'm glad you got it sorted out but WOW!, just WOW, the dealer had the balls to put that damaged part on a new truck and I bet $$ they'll never mention it to the prospective buyer. Really makes me think about the shady things they do that no one suspects... Again, glad you got it resolved to your liking.

 

[LandCruiser]

I'm glad you got it sorted out but WOW!, just WOW, the dealer had the balls to put that damaged part on a new truck and I bet $$ they'll never mention it to the prospective buyer. Really makes me think about the shady things they do that no one suspects... Again, glad you got it resolved to your liking.

They'll bury a piece of paper in the sales documents that effectively states that the buyer "may" be getting a repaired vehicle, get some sucker to sign it, and if they have any questions, they just say "it's standard procedure."

 

[Eagle62]

They'll bury a piece of paper in the sales documents that effectively states that the buyer "may" be getting a repaired vehicle, get some sucker to sign it, and if they have any questions, they just say "it's standard procedure."

you may be right ...or they may just not say anything.

 

[Granth77]

They won't say anything. They'll repair it, then probably try to dealer trade it.

 

[Kennyr44]

Dealers dont care. Are you sick of my dealership stories yet. If you are skip this. We were waiting for our monthly shipment of new Volvos, we were selling about 60 a month. It was 2 weeks late coming. I personally was invested because I had one on order for me in this batch. Volvo North America had no explanation why they were late. Eventually they had to speak up and explained that on the boat they got over sprayed by a ship that was getting painted. Imagine thousands of new cars full of paint. They got them unloaded and had them half ass buffed out at the dock. We finally got our 60 cars and they had terrible swirl marks etc all over them. Volvo didnt offer any help till each dealer complained and they negotiated each situation at a time. We ended up getting $300 per car. All my dealership did was pocket the 18k and run them through our wash guy and had him buff them up again. Joke. Never told a customer or offered anything to anyone. I passed on mine but all were sold and as they came in for service over the years I could recognize them easily. They looked like crap. Just another car dealer screwing. Thats a crazy story I had forgot about till this thread.

 

[LandCruiser]

Dealers dont care. Are you sick of my dealership stories yet. If you are skip this. We were waiting for our monthly shipment of new Volvos, we were selling about 60 a month. It was 2 weeks late coming. I personally was invested because I had one on order for me in this batch. Volvo North America had no explanation why they were late. Eventually they had to speak up and explained that on the boat they got over sprayed by a ship that was getting painted. Imagine thousands of new cars full of paint. They got them unloaded and had them half ass buffed out at the dock. We finally got our 60 cars and they had terrible swirl marks etc all over them. Volvo didnt offer any help till each dealer complained and they negotiated each situation at a time. We ended up getting $300 per car. All my dealership did was pocket the 18k and run them through our wash guy and had him buff them up again. Joke. Never told a customer or offered anything to anyone. I passed on mine but all were sold and as they came in for service over the years I could recognize them easily. They looked like crap. Just another car dealer screwing. Thats a crazy story I had forgot about till this thread.

I had a friend who bought a new Taco almost a decade ago that was damaged when unloading from the car carrier--they smashed the driver's door and mirror. They replaced the door and painted it over, and replaced the mirror lens.

He *****ed for months about "shitty Toyota paint" because the door didn't look like the rest of the truck, eventually he found out what the dealership did.

They did what they did in this thread, offer him 500 bucks discount on an extended warranty plan that cost 2000 bucks.

ETA: my 3rd gen 4Runner came with a Safelite windshield and driver's glass, new from the dealership. The dealer told me "when they run out of Toyota glass they put other manufacturer glass on there."

IN JAPAN

....

These asshats just cheat and lie to make problems go away.

 

[emt60]

you may be right ...or they may just not say anything.

So from one of my conversations with the GM, he told me under the law there can be a certain $$ amount of repaired damage which does not have to be disclosed to the customer even though its a new vehicle. Interestingly, he said it actually happens all the time at the ports where they unload. They smack up a bumper, take off a mirror, etc. The shipping company can actually repair the vehicle before it gets to the dealer, and the dealers themselves don't have to be told about the damage/repair.

It sounds like they are going to take my liftgate, repair it, slap it on the TE, and sell it as they are allowed under the law as i'm sure the repair is well under the threshold.