Diesel 4Runner?

Of course a turbo would be great, but we're talking Toyota here, not Chrysler, which seems hell bent on trying everything to keep sales and customers.

The 1UR-FSE with D4-S DI and 6spd would, however, bring ~20 per cent better mpg than the 4.0 V6, and be appreciably better with any kind of load, especially if the torque/hp spec is raised to 339 lb.-ft. and 347 hp. The 4.6 is a very good engine with proven reliability.
 
Of course a turbo would be great, but we're talking Toyota here, not Chrysler, which seems hell bent on trying everything to keep sales and customers.

The 1UR-FSE with D4-S DI and 6spd would, however, bring ~20 per cent better mpg than the 4.0 V6, and be appreciably better with any kind of load, especially if the torque/hp spec is raised to 339 lb.-ft. and 347 hp. The 4.6 is a very good engine with proven reliability.

It's my understanding that the 4.0 was pretty much completely re-designed, and now has dual VVti whereas the old 4.0 has single. It's one of the reasons the old 4.0 Supercharger is not an option for the 5th gen 4Runner? It would make more sense to me to see DI added to the current 4.0 to give it numbers similar to the 4.6 plus better gas mileage. Plus how would a DI 4.6 in a 4Runner effect the GX460?

I mention the turbo because a number of manufacturers such as Hyundai/Kia, Ford, Chevy, etc. are using small displacement plus forced induction to deliver power and fuel economy.

Just because they can doesn't mean they will.

It also doesn't mean they won't... ;)
 
A lot of things that would make sense to you and me and much of the motoring masses don't seem to resonate through to Toyota for some reason. A 3.0-litre diesel, a DI 4.0 V6, a DI 4.6 option, six-speed trannys — all would seem eminently reasonable to most, especially when so many competitors are doing that and more. I shake my head at how passive Toyota can be sometimes.
 
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel doesn't offer THAT much of a fuel economy advantage over the new V6 gas engine. (Do the math with the average consumption of both, using the current price of gas in you region).

Sure, if toyota had a diesel engine in the line-up when I bought the truck, I would have opted for that, but there will be no sane economic reason to change over your truck because you save 3 MPG overall. You also have to consider the (probable) higher maintenance costs of the diesel engine, if you talk to anyone who had diesels that had to get worked on at a garage.

They said you won't see the advantage for 35,000 miles. Hell, I'm at 28,600 miles in just 11 months of 4Runner ownership. I'd be seeing the advantage by June.
 
A lot of things that would make sense to you and me and much of the motoring masses don't seem to resonate through to Toyota for some reason. A 3.0-litre diesel, a DI 4.0 V6, a DI 4.6 option, six-speed trannys — all would seem eminently reasonable to most, especially when so many competitors are doing that and more. I shake my head at how passive Toyota can be sometimes.

I completely agree... I think discontinuing Celica and Supra in the US was a huge mistake. Every brand needs a halo car to create excitment. Then to create Scion effectively killing any possibility of really sporty Toyota's... it weakens Toyota's brand image. Toyota still sells a ton of cars, but they could benefit from being a bit more aggresive.

They said you won't see the advantage for 35,000 miles. Hell, I'm at 28,600 miles in just 11 months of 4Runner ownership. I'd be seeing the advantage by June.

You would see the benefit the first time you put your foot down and heard the turbo spool :whoo:
 
So, we'll see 4Runners with stacks and drivers that think they are long haul truckers?

The douchebag down the street with stacks on his Cummins is doing his best at ruining diesel's reputation. I hear his loud ass truck a 1/2 mile away.
 
So, we'll see 4Runners with stacks and drivers that think they are long haul truckers?

The douchebag down the street with stacks on his Cummins is doing his best at ruining diesel's reputation. I hear his loud ass truck a 1/2 mile away.

There will always be that person...
 
The issue is our fuel quality, we are far behind European standards for Diesel (We just recently took sulfur out of the fuel, which by the way is going to cause serious issues for pre-sulfur removed diesels like lead-free gasoline did back in the day,) the fuel we have runs great in our American diesels because we crank them out to run on crap fuel. The diesel engines offered by many other manufacturers would actually have premature failure and issues unless the engine was modified to essentially use lower grade fuel (imagine having to detune your 4.0L because it can't run on anything above 65 octane as a abstract example.) The effect of "detuning" the modern diesel engines nets a loss of MPG, performance, and the great strides in diesel technology made today. While there are a handful of diesel engines made for the US that run well (not talking about trucks)most of them aren't making 40MPG easily. My father had an Audi A4 Diesel in Europe a year or two ago and with a slight flash to the ECM for some extra oomph he was pulling roughly 40mpg easily in that wagon.
 
My BMW is twin turbo.

My next sports car will be a 2011-2014 mustang with a roush phase 2 supercharger.

Keep an eye on that BMW, we've seen a couple of those twin turbo'd monstrosities fail horribly, both turbos toasted; the piezoelectric direct fuel injectors are notorious for failure on BMWs, they're up to I think revision 19 or so of those injectors because they crack the tips and spew fuel into the engines. (Actually had a friend who teaches CTi Courses and does heavy duty Diagnostics tell me of a shop that had one of those Twin turbos fail so badly it was leaking RAW FUEL out of the tailpipe...)
 
The issue is our fuel quality, we are far behind European standards for Diesel (We just recently took sulfur out of the fuel, which by the way is going to cause serious issues for pre-sulfur removed diesels like lead-free gasoline did back in the day,) the fuel we have runs great in our American diesels because we crank them out to run on crap fuel. The diesel engines offered by many other manufacturers would actually have premature failure and issues unless the engine was modified to essentially use lower grade fuel

This is the second post in this thread to this effect, and it's just wrong. Or, to put it another way, you're painting with a very broad brush. Are there differences? Of course! But in the grand scheme of things, they're minor.

For 2007, the US got ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) fuel. This was a huge step, and was the only roadblock to being able to sell modern, low-emissions diesel engines in the US. These engine use a diesel particulate filter (DPF) to mechanically filter out the soot. But they get clogged with sulfur unless ULSD is used. As of 2007, US and european diesel is more similar than different.

The biggest difference between the two is that euro diesel has a higher cetane number (analogous to octane). The "hotter" fuel in europe does have a performance advantage, but it's not that significant. And, more to the point, it won't keep a euro diesel engine from working well in the US except for a few (highly tuned) exceptions.

Just to give you a bit of background, I've been testing/developing euro diesel engines in the US since the late 90's. Not that it makes me an expert, but I'm not just a internet speculator. Or a guy, who knows a guy, who knows a guy.

And yes, some manufacturers have had some issues bringing their euro diesels to the US (VW tdi, for instance) but that is not as clear cut as some sources would make it seem. And the failure rate is shockingly low, but the flow of information on the internet may make you think otherwise. What you have to understand is that the function of diesel fuel in diesel engines is MUCH more complicated than gasoline in spark ignition engines. Small changes in chemistry and lubricity can have huge effects on performance and reliability. Factor in the "dosing" strategy, where fuel is added to the exhaust to initiate regeneration in the particulate filter and it gets way more complicated. But I'm trying not to get too off topic here, so I'll leave it at that.

I would love to see a diesel 4runner, but I'm a little skeptical that Toyota would do it without a big cost increase. The high compression ratio makes engine block design a real challenge and the fuel system and exhaust systems (including the particulate filter) are crazy expensive, too. To say nothing of all the precious metals that are needed in the catalyst. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I think a 6 or 8 cylinder would be cost prohibitive due to engine costs and the upgrades to the drivetrain that would be required. I'd ballpark it at $5,500 increase, depending on how many markets they could amortize the costs over. Personally, I think the value proposition of a 4runner gets very close to the edge of the cliff with an extra $5k tacked on. A 4 cylinder would be more feasible, but I think the US market would likely reject that. I would probably be the one guy in line with my checkbook , though.
 
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That's actually interesting to hear Terminus, I do appreciate your input; most of the information regarding the fuel has been parted to me by diesel technicians and diagnostic technicians working on these types of vehicles as well as some articles I came across in regards to why there aren't a lot of modern diesels in the US.

I realize the complexity of the combustion process in a diesel engine, its actually a really interesting design in terms of how it makes power vs. a gasoline engine. I am willing to admit I might be wrong on this part, I just went by the law of averages on this. I figured if so many guys who actually work on diesels and diagnose them professionally are telling me A, its probably somewhat true.

I'll have to look into this much more deeply now! Thanks Terminus, I appreciate the counter-point! :)
 
I also work for the second largest ng producer in the country in operations engineering -

I'm much more excited about bi-fuel options coming out than diesel half-tons. Being able to fill up for .99 per/gal equivilant sounds like an easier sell. In OKC CNG is easy to come by, I'm getting a quote on my 4Runner to run bi-fuel. Ill share once I get it. I'm also getting a quote on a tundra bi-fuel conversion.
 
Keep an eye on that BMW, we've seen a couple of those twin turbo'd monstrosities fail horribly, both turbos toasted; the piezoelectric direct fuel injectors are notorious for failure on BMWs, they're up to I think revision 19 or so of those injectors because they crack the tips and spew fuel into the engines. (Actually had a friend who teaches CTi Courses and does heavy duty Diagnostics tell me of a shop that had one of those Twin turbos fail so badly it was leaking RAW FUEL out of the tailpipe...)

Yes I'm on my 5th high pressure fuel pump. Waste gate and turbo failures are common. This is why ill not be keeping it past the 100K warranty. It's what my wife drives and now we have twins I'll push her towards a GX460.
 
I also work for the second largest ng producer in the country in operations engineering -

I'm much more excited about bi-fuel options coming out than diesel half-tons. Being able to fill up for .99 per/gal equivilant sounds like an easier sell. In OKC CNG is easy to come by, I'm getting a quote on my 4Runner to run bi-fuel. Ill share once I get it. I'm also getting a quote on a tundra bi-fuel conversion.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being excited about a vehicle that is A) Available this year from the manufacturer ready to go, and B) Is capable of being fueld easily across the nation.

Bi-fuel sounds interesting but how long would it take to roll out across the entire United States. Further how much would conversions cost, and how long till manufacturers offer them with warranties in large number?
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with being excited about a vehicle that is A) Available this year from the manufacturer ready to go, and B) Is capable of being fueld easily across the nation.

Bi-fuel sounds interesting but how long would it take to roll out across the entire United States. Further how much would conversions cost, and how long till manufacturers offer them with warranties in large number?

I'd bet within 5 years its avalible everywhere. It's gone OK, TX, then prob KS. They have a plan to roll out across the entire country. CA has had it a long time but only in select munipalities (so have lots of other places). But what we really need is a national network.

Great thing is when you run out of CNG it switched over automatically back to gas. I'm hoping the quote is under 6K should have a out a 175mile CNG range then the full tank of gas range so thats a bladder busting 600 miles or so.
 

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