Dragontj's 2015 TEP w/KDSS Build

SKP-4R said:
What height are you planning on setting them at? Anything over 1.75" is getting close to maxing out your stock UCA's. We have excellent pricing on ICON if you are interested. I should be able to set you up with a very nice kit. Obviously I am bias towards ICON since I have a stage 2 but I'm sure everyone will agree that ICON>ToyTech.
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Two things: Why do you think 1.75" is close to maxing out stock UCA's? It's not but just want to understand your reasoning.
Second, "everyone" does not agree ICON is greater than Toytech or that ANY suspension is better than any other.

Examples:
A spacer lift would be better than an ICON stage two for a guy that never goes off road. Why? Because he can get that lifted "look" for a fraction of the cost and still retain most of his stock ride quality.

A ToyTech lift would be better than an ICON stage two from the standpoint of maintenance. The Bilstein shocks are OEM on many vehicles and are designed for a long life of no maintenance. Depending on your driving habits, the ICON's will need to be rebuilt and unless you live near the shop that rebuilds them you will have to remove them, ship them away, wait for rebuild and then reinstall them.

King shocks will be better for high speed desert driving than Icon. Why? Different design and valving.

ICON is a good shock but depending on application they are NOT always the best choice.
 
1engineer said:
Two things: Why do you think 1.75" is close to maxing out stock UCA's? It's not but just want to understand your reasoning.
Second, "everyone" does not agree ICON is greater than Toytech or that ANY suspension is better than any other.

Examples:
A spacer lift would be better than an ICON stage two for a guy that never goes off road. Why? Because he can get that lifted "look" for a fraction of the cost and still retain most of his stock ride quality.

A ToyTech lift would be better than an ICON stage two from the standpoint of maintenance. The Bilstein shocks are OEM on many vehicles and are designed for a long life of no maintenance. Depending on your driving habits, the ICON's will need to be rebuilt and unless you live near the shop that rebuilds them you will have to remove them, ship them away, wait for rebuild and then reinstall them.

King shocks will be better for high speed desert driving than Icon. Why? Different design and valving.

ICON is a good shock but depending on application they are NOT always the best choice.
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From what I have read, 2.5" lift seems max for a stock UCA. Therefore 2.0" seems like a conservative point to where aftermarket UCA's should be mandatory. Coupled with the idea of bigger tires and I feel 1.75" is a good point to where customers should heavily consider UCA's. That is my bad for not explaining that in more detail

Secondly, as a brand I really can't see how anyone would pick spacers over top of the line suspension. While price is a factor, it should not determine how "good" or "greater" a suspension component is. ICON specializes in Toyota's and it is no secret that the customer satisfaction rate between ICON and ToyTech are a bit...lopsided.

I also find that "lifted look" to be pretty redundant. The whole point (in my opinion) of a lifted look is to have function over form. Why by a 4Runner if you plan on never going off-road? Furthermore, at no point did the OP mention he was never going to take his rig off-road.

ICON is not an all encompassing kit that fits everyone's needs perfectly, but unless he plans on doing some pretty niche driving, I strongly feel ICON is the better solution.

For the record, I could sell him an ICON kit for...shall we say close to the MSRP of ToyTech's BOSS kit.
 
Do they have to be rebuilt pending usage or in general over a certain amount of time. Say if they are offroaded alot is that what impacts the longevity? I do plan to do some offroading in the mountains at some point but that is not going to be for a little while as I Just can see messing up a brand new vehicle. Currently I am on the beach quite a bit and plan to go to the Cove with Antman.

But again I dont plan on rock crawling for a while. However, I would like the lift to last as I may be putting on the next 4runner when the lease is up.
 
SKP-4R said:
From what I have read, 2.5" lift seems max for a stock UCA. Therefore 2.0" seems like a conservative point to where aftermarket UCA's should be mandatory. Coupled with the idea of bigger tires and I feel 1.75" is a good point to where customers should heavily consider UCA's. That is my bad for not explaining that in more detail

It's not the UCA that limits it as much as CV angle. Now, getting to a 4 caster with a stock UCA is tough after a lift but even though a 4 caster impoves drivability it is also out of Toyota spec range too.

Secondly, as a brand I really can't see how anyone would pick spacers over top of the line suspension. While price is a factor, it should not determine how "good" or "greater" a suspension component is. ICON specializes in Toyota's and it is no secret that the customer satisfaction rate between ICON and ToyTech are a bit...lopsided.

Price is a huge factor. 90% of the posts here question price.

I also find that "lifted look" to be pretty redundant. The whole point (in my opinion) of a lifted look is to have function over form. Why by a 4Runner if you plan on never going off-road? Furthermore, at no point did the OP mention he was never going to take his rig off-road.

95% (at least) of the people who buy 4Runners never take it off road. Out of the 5% who do, 95% of those 5% only go on terrain that a stock suspension could easily handle!
Here's the market:
80,000 (est 2015 sales) X0.05= 4,000 who go off road with any regularity.
4,000X.05=200 who go hard off road out of all the 4Runners sold in 2015. Most of them post here.
Look, the sales split is 60% SR5, 32% LE and 8% TE. Out of that 82% of SR5 and LE 30% is 2WD! Don't get fooled by the forum. Most who own a 4Runner never post here as it is only a vehicle to get from A to B and haul kids around. They are not enthusiasts.

ICON is not an all encompassing kit that fits everyone's needs perfectly, but unless he plans on doing some pretty niche driving, I strongly feel ICON is the better solution.
Actually Bilstein is the best aftermarket all around solution if you go by sales figures. Do you sell King or Bilstein?

For the record, I could sell him an ICON kit for...shall we say close to the MSRP of ToyTech's BOSS kit.
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Dragontj said:
Do they have to be rebuilt pending usage or in general over a certain amount of time. Both. They will last longer if you never go off road but will need to get rebuilt eventually from normal usage. You can be up to two weeks without the vehicle unless you bolt on other shocks in the interim. Say if they are offroaded alot is that what impacts the longevity? I do plan to do some offroading in the mountains at some point but that is not going to be for a little while as I Just can see messing up a brand new vehicle. Currently I am on the beach quite a bit and plan to go to the Cove with Antman.

But again I dont plan on rock crawling for a while. However, I would like the lift to last as I may be putting on the next 4runner when the lease is up.

You just made my point. Why would someone that will never or rarely go off road want to spend the money of ICON, Fox or King when they can buy Bilstein or even a spacer lift? I'm not busting you but even the majority of guys who post here think like you. They want to go off road but it's too new, weather's too bad, spouse wants to go to a hotel instead of camping, soccer season, baseball season, dance season, kid's birthday, can't get vacation... in other words life gets in the way BUT THEY ALL WANT THE LOOK. A lot of guys plan for a future that changes when it gets here. It's fine to plan for the future but that's like buying a house with six bedrooms when you are still single because you plan on having five kids one of these days. Sometimes it works out but most of the time a person's future is pretty much the same as the present. Personally I go off road a lot comparatively speaking but nowhere near what I used to.
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Responses in bold.
 
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I can't speak to the ICON lift but I installed a Toytec Ultimate lift (almost the same as BOSS) and it is not a bad install. I got the Light Racing UCA as well and to be honest they were the easiest part of the install so I don't think it would be hard to install them and then pull them off whenever you were ready to turn in lease.
 
Looks great. Love the color. Does the TRD grill just snap over the stock bumper?

How do you like the steps? I really want some too.
 
1engineer said:
Responses in bold.
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Thanks for the input. You are always very informative. I have done a spacer install on another vehicle in the past and the ride was affected. So that would be out, just because of experience.

I am open to the Bilstein in fact Antman highly recomends it. Having met him I respect him. But, ride quality is definitely something I want to make sure is maintained. Knowing how much modification I have done in the past to other vehicles I am aware of the just changing tires affects the ride quality as well.
 
halcyon said:
Looks great. Love the color. Does the TRD grill just snap over the stock bumper?

How do you like the steps? I really want some too.
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I like the steps. Not really needed so much with the current AHEM height. But they look tough.

The grill has hooks on the top and two sided tape
 
I will just say this. I went with 5100s set to 2.5" and 1.5" daystar spacers and am getting ready to swap the rear coils out for SAW for additional load capability. I am also adding Camburg upper control arms, not cause I "need" them but off road I do smack the arms on the coils. If I had to do the suspension all over again I would have gone ICON stage 2 and called it a day.
 
thats come very good information Dagnabit. Only challenge I have is I really want to avoid UCA's. How was the ride on the 5100's though? I will probably stay in the 2" range for the lift.
 
Dragontj said:
Pulled the trigger and got my 4runner. Let the mods begin! Have grille and installing that soon, Nfab Steps I got from Antman (Thanks man!) will be installed this week.
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Is the Trailblazer next to you in the PIC your trade in, just wondering, thats what I traded for my Nautical Blue Trail.
 
No lol. MY trade in was a 2012 Jeep wrangler JKU.

The Tj was my 99 jeep back in the day.
 

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Wheels , tires, and Laminx installed. Blacking out bits soon!
 

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