Engineering Design Decision? For TRD Pro... No Sun roof, no KDSS.. But why?

[Pete from mass]

Sorry if this answer exists somewhere...I've been searching hard but can't seem to find it anywhere.

Was there a technical reason why the TRD Pro doesn't have the KDSS or the Sunroof?
When I watch the review videos, a lot of the test vehicles where equipped with both the KDSS and the sunroof. I was surprised that the production TRD Pro doesn't have those?

What happened? ....was there a technical reason? Do the new shocks and suspension enhancements negated the need for KDSS?

I was just curious if there was an engineering rational? Or was it cost based?

 

[MLPbrian]

I have always wondered how the TRD Pro doesn't have the sunroof or the side mirror turn lights yet I've seen both of those on the models featured in promotional videos.

 

[Jetboy]

I'm guessing cost based and purpose based. KDSS is on all the flagship Toyota SUVs. Land Cruiser. Lexus LX and GX. And Trail edition 4runner. All of which are pretty well optimized for expedition and lower speed offroad type use. If you're Toyota and you figure you can sell every Trail Edition you can produce, and making a Trail edition into a TRD Pro doesn't increase profit margin much, but building a TRD Pro out of a base model SR5 you can mark that one up about $8k from what it otherwise would be with $1500 in parts and different paint scheme. It makes a lot more sense from that point of view to take a base SR5 off the line and make it a TRD Pro.

 

[1engineer]

Sorry if this answer exists somewhere...I've been searching hard but can't seem to find it anywhere.

Was there a technical reason why the TRD Pro doesn't have the KDSS or the Sunroof?
When I watch the review videos, a lot of the test vehicles where equipped with both the KDSS and the sunroof. I was surprised that the production TRD Pro doesn't have those?

What happened? ....was there a technical reason? Do the new shocks and suspension enhancements negated the need for KDSS?

I was just curious if there was an engineering rational? Or was it cost based?

Purely marketing driven. No, they don't negate the KDSS function nor does the suspension need a stronger roof lol. They deleted it to keep the costs down. KDSS is still the best compromise suspension for on and off road out there.

 

[1engineer]

I have always wondered how the TRD Pro doesn't have the sunroof or the side mirror turn lights yet I've seen both of those on the models featured in promotional videos.

Because the ones you saw were PROTOTYPES.

 

[Pkniland]

I'm guessing cost based and purpose based. KDSS is on all the flagship Toyota SUVs. Land Cruiser. Lexus LX and GX. And Trail be with $1500 in parts and different paint scheme. It makes a lot more sense from that point of view to take a base SR5 off the line and make it a TRD Pro.

I thought the TRDP was based off the Trail, just not the Trail Premium? It has the locker and all the goodies, just not the KDSS and sunroof. I think ultimately it was about price. If you take a TEP and make it a TRDP, your in the 45-48K range. While I still think they would sell at that I dont think Toyota wanted to get up that high.

 

[jrandom]

LOL profit!

It could almost be an base SR5 with some fancy shocks and a skid plate on it and if it says TRD on it they will sell just because it says TRD on it.

It should be interesting to see all these TRD 4runners when they need to go in and get their shocks replaced come 75-150k. :wow:

 

[4RunnerPro]

2016 and beyond

I also believe that this gives them things to upgrade in the coming years. They often don't want to give everything the first year because then it becomes harder to make the new ones look better than the previous years. It's upgraded in increments. I do agree about price point also though.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

LOL profit!

It could almost be an base SR5 with some fancy shocks and a skid plate on it and if it says TRD on it they will sell just because it says TRD on it.

It should be interesting to see all these TRD 4runners when they need to go in and get their shocks replaced come 75-150k. :wow:

It will also be interesting to see all of those Trail Owners with KDSS, when they need to get a KDSS Piston or 2 replaced and the system bled around 75K-150K. If you think the TRD Pro shocks are spendy, check out the cost KDSS work....that is if you can find a Toyota Dealership that has the tools or knowledge to work on that system....

 

[wfo9]

My guess (just from typical engineering change orders I've been through..).

The PRO offers a bit more suspension travel and they did no want to mess with long term testing KDSS with those new parameters. It may have pushed it outside the original design specs and testing parameters.

Cheaper to keep it out of the equation, since it is targeted as a desert off road truck.

They may have also got input from the aftermarket.... to get it off the truck to line up better with that market for future upgrades.

 

[jrandom]

It will also be interesting to see all of those Trail Owners with KDSS, when they need to get a KDSS Piston or 2 replaced and the system bled around 75K-150K. If you think the TRD Pro shocks are spendy, check out the cost KDSS work....that is if you can find a Toyota Dealership that has the tools or knowledge to work on that system....

Apples and oranges, shocks are a consumable. Personally if it goes out I will simply remove it. Adding regular sway bars from a total would cost squat. The thing is 5th gen is 5+ years old, KDSS has been out since what 2006 and I haven't heard really consistent issues with KDSS. Anyway digression.

 

[470SNC]

KDSS is a pain with a lift, especially for maintenance, they probably didnt want to bother with it, also more technology to go wrong when offroading

 

[RCFJ]

KDSS is still the best compromise suspension for on and off road out there.

:lmao: Good one

 

[1engineer]

:lmao: Good one

You have a better example on a stock vehicle?

 

[RCFJ]

You have a better example on a stock vehicle?

Ya, not flushing $1800 down the drain and upgrading the shocks and springs (lift or no lift)

Edit: I guess I should clarify, the idea of KDSS is good (maybe even the best system), but the price....

 

[DesertCanyons]

TRD Pro cost and upgrade packages

The TRD Pro is assembled here in the USA after it reaches port. We've seen posts and stories about the one or two locations that complete this upgrade. Adding a lift to a T4R with KDSS is substantially more work than adding it to a Trail Edition without KDSS. The labor costs would drive up the price further.

The sunroof is another added package that would drive up the price of a TRD Pro.

The TRD Pro is made from a Trail Edition, with locking rear differential and a direct link stick shift for the transfer case. Those features don't come with an SR5.

Price point is the biggest factor. The TRD Pro has to compete with the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon for about the same price and a Lexus with all those bells and whistles for a few thousand more. But of course, the Lexus is not as capable as a Trail Edition, a TRD Pro or a Rubicon. Try putting rock sliders or a sway bar disconnect on a Lexus.

If you want the TRD with a sunroof and flashing mirrors, get the TEP and add a 2" lift.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

Apples and oranges, shocks are a consumable. Personally if it goes out I will simply remove it. Adding regular sway bars from a total would cost squat. The thing is 5th gen is 5+ years old, KDSS has been out since what 2006 and I haven't heard really consistent issues with KDSS. Anyway digression.

KDSS can be simply removed, but it isn't easy to replace it with a standard swaybar, from a non-KDSS 4runner. I have yet to hear of anyone who has been able to swap their KDSS for a standard setup. The way the KDSS Swaybars connect to the frame and suspension is completely different, and there would have to be alot of part swapping and fab work to swap in a standard swaybar. If you know of a way, I would love to know! My KDSS rear piston failed at 80k miles. I am sitting on a $1400 repair bill to replace the rear piston, and bleed the system. I would love to be able to cheaply fix it. Until then, I am living with the loose clunking feeling over every bump, from a KDSS system that isn't at the right pressure.

 

[RCFJ]

KDSS can be simply removed, but it isn't easy to replace it with a standard swaybar, from a non-KDSS 4runner. I have yet to hear of anyone who has been able to swap their KDSS for a standard setup. The way the KDSS Swaybars connect to the frame and suspension is completely different, and there would have to be alot of part swapping and fab work to swap in a standard swaybar. If you know of a way, I would love to know! My KDSS rear piston failed at 80k miles. I am sitting on a $1400 repair bill to replace the rear piston, and bleed the system. I would love to be able to cheaply fix it. Until then, I am living with the loose clunking feeling over every bump, from a KDSS system that isn't at the right pressure.

Well, could be wrong here, haven't really looked into it, but the stock sway bar requires 6 bolts, 4 into the frame, may have to drill if not already there. And new spindles for the other 2 bolts. Probably not terrible. If you remove the kdss the light will always stay on as well.

 

[blacktrdpro]

The TRDPro 4runner is a replacement for the TRD/Trail Team FJ. The FJ in the US ended in 2014 and the TRDPro 4runner filled that market in 2015. Note they are basically the same package, wheels/tires, bilstein shocks, floor mats, shift knob, etc..

 

[Jetboy]

KDSS can be simply removed, but it isn't easy to replace it with a standard swaybar, from a non-KDSS 4runner. I have yet to hear of anyone who has been able to swap their KDSS for a standard setup. The way the KDSS Swaybars connect to the frame and suspension is completely different, and there would have to be alot of part swapping and fab work to swap in a standard swaybar. If you know of a way, I would love to know! My KDSS rear piston failed at 80k miles. I am sitting on a $1400 repair bill to replace the rear piston, and bleed the system. I would love to be able to cheaply fix it. Until then, I am living with the loose clunking feeling over every bump, from a KDSS system that isn't at the right pressure.

Have you considered replacing with a generic hydraulic cylinder? It's just a two way cylinder. Plumbing should be easy enough to put together. The last I had looked bleeding wasn't terribly complicated. A leaky cylinder definitely is a PITA, but it seems to be a low probability failure.