Handgun in the 4R

[ICD]

Before you buy a Glock, please inform yourself...

Where'd you find this, it's pretty funny

 

[andy2008]

Now for an inexpensive pocket gun the keltec 380 has done a great job for me for past 5 years. Can fit in any pocket with couple spares mags your wallet sticks out more. 6 + 1 has no safety but like a 13lb pull. Not your target pistol feels like you got hit with hammer in the palm. Never had any problems with it breaks down with single pin. Think 250 new.

 

[junaitari]

Where'd you find this, it's pretty funny

Some other board. There is a facebook page full of them, but I can't remember what it is...

 

[larryccf1]

We're going to have to agree to disagree with that. If a revolver is loaded and you pull the trigger, it goes boom. If a Glock or SIG is loaded and you pull the trigger, it goes boom. The difference in length and weight of trigger pull just aren't that important, IMO.



If you put a loaded revolver in a night stand and pull it out 3 years later and pull the trigger, it goes boom. You keep pulling the trigger until it clicks.

If you put a loaded SIG in a night stand and pull it out 3 years later and pull the trigger, it goes boom. You keep pulling the trigger until the slide locks back.

I just don't see much of a difference. As an NRA certified instructor, I'm well aware of the NRA dogma that revolvers are simpler, but I just don't see it. I'm not knocking revolvers -- I feel perfectly well armed with my 4" Model 19 and a few speedloaders.

two elements though, that i don't think you're allowing for, or are assuming every user is going to be as proficient and current in his/her training as you are. I'm addressing the majority of owners that don't practice on a regular basis with their firearm - it's 2;00AM and the wife has just woken him that she's heard glass breaking and there's somebody down stairs - hell, if he hasn't trained in a few years, is he going to even remember to take the safety off or where it is? If not, that's time lost. I'm in the firearms trade and have picked up pistols i haven't used in a few years and had to look for the safety. Is his wife going to remember where it is and remember to take it off safe or even how to?

then if it doesn't discharge, maybe a bad primer, whatever - instinctively he/she will pull the trigger again - unless it's a double action semi-auto, all that does is cost him/her time. With a revolver, if that happens, and the user instinctively pulls the trigger again, it will "self clear" , ie rotate to the next chamber and round

what if it does fire but for whatever reason stove pipes - is he/she going to quickly remember to rack the slide - again, it's 2:00AM and the user has been awakened from a sound sleep so he's not exactly at his most alert state with sharp reflexes.

3rd - you can't pull my trick of loading a blank round for the first shot in a semi-auto - it won't cycle. I'd rather the perps left and i didn't have to spend hours with popo walking in /out of my house and then having to replace the carpet cause of the blood stains. That's not the main reason for that blank round - most perps are high on crank, dog tranquilizers, whatever it takes to give them the courage to commit a break in - the loud report of a round, even though a blank, should break thru to their consciosness

 

[Bay33saw]

To be perfectly honest I have read and watched this thread grow and grow and feel that everyone has their own opinion about what is best to carry and semi or a revolver and each and everyone has their own right to say what is best. I feel that now this post should be locked and put to bed. Just my .02c

 

[Nashvegas34]

To be perfectly honest I have read and watched this thread grow and grow and feel that everyone has their own opinion about what is best to carry and semi or a revolver and each and everyone has their own right to say what is best. I feel that now this post should be locked and put to bed. Just my .02c

Wait, no! I want to know where andy2008 got his army green iPhone case, how quickly he can unload and load it, how it fits in a pocket, and whether his phone has ever accidentally fired and butt-dialed an ex.

 

[blackrifle01]

Here's the plan for a novice:

Get yourself anything in 9mm (glock, XD, Sig, etc..). 40cal will be tough to shoot accurately for a novice due to recoil. 9mm gives you less recoil and should be cheaper to shoot while being a good defensive round.

So, in short:

1. Buy 9mm semi-auto handgun (any brand...hard to go wrong as long as you avoid some of the crap brands like hi-point)
2. Buy several 9mm magazines
3. Buy PMAGs by the dozen (because you will be wanting to pick up an AR-15 in the near future once you get into shooting...trust me).
4. ?????
5. Profit

I own multiple semi-automatic rifles and handguns and will continue to collect and grow my collection. I have chest-rigs, plate carriers, foot lockers worth of common, normal capacity (read as 30 rnd) magazines, and enough ammunition to sustain a short war. Freaking glad I now live in the US and A enjoying rights bought by generations of patriot blood.

I don't blame people from countries like America's hat for hating our freedoms...they just don't know what it means to be free. It's OK for you to have your opinion and express your disgust for our way of life. Just remember we don't need your approval or quite frankly care what your poorly formed emotion-fueled opinion is. We hold freedom to be more important than perceived temporary safety.

It says "...shall not be infringed" for a reason.

 

[mikebontoft]

WOW.

this is incredibly off topic at this point. Please continue your conversations here, as this exactly what the thread is intended for:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-topic/132058-official-toyota-4runner-firearms-thread.html

 

[M1911]

is he going to even remember to take the safety off or where it is?

Many (most?) popular semi-autos these days do not have manual safeties: Glock, S&W M&P, Springfield XD/XDm, SIG, HK LEM, etc. If a revolver is loaded and you pull the trigger, it goes bang. If a Glock is loaded and you pull the trigger, it goes bang.

then if it doesn't discharge, maybe a bad primer, whatever - instinctively he/she will pull the trigger again - unless it's a double action semi-auto, all that does is cost him/her time. With a revolver, if that happens, and the user instinctively pulls the trigger again, it will "self clear" , ie rotate to the next chamber and round

what if it does fire but for whatever reason stove pipes

Yes, with a semi-auto you do need to learn how to clear a jam. But with modern semi-autos and factory ammunition, jam are relatively rare. Of course, if your revolver jams (extractor rod unscrews, you get a high primer, or dirt under the extractor), then you are well and truly screwed. Admittedly, revolver jams are less likely, but I have had them.

3rd - you can't pull my trick of loading a blank round for the first shot in a semi-auto - it won't cycle. I'd rather the perps left and i didn't have to spend hours with popo walking in /out of my house and then having to replace the carpet cause of the blood stains. That's not the main reason for that blank round - most perps are high on crank, dog tranquilizers, whatever it takes to give them the courage to commit a break in - the loud report of a round, even though a blank, should break thru to their consciosness[/COLOR]

I'm sorry, but I do not agree with that advice at all. If I only have 6 shots in the gun, I'm not going to give up one of them to a blank. I'm not going to fire a gun at someone if they are not putting me in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury, and if they are putting me in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury then I'm not going to fire a blank at them, I'm going to fire a live round at them.

Further, mixing lethal and less lethal rounds in the same gun is a recipe for disaster. Some departments issue less lethal shotgun rounds for use with emotionally disturbed persons. They only use these rounds in particular shotguns (usually painted orange) -- otherwise they risk mixing up lethal with less lethal rounds and using one when they intended to use the other.

There are folks who think that semi-autos are more complicated than revolvers. I disagree, based on my experience. I've taught NRA Basic Pistol classes to complete novices -- people who have never picked up a gun before. During the range portion, I had them fire revolvers and semi-autos, both rimfire and center fire. They really didn't find one more difficult than the other -- they were just different.

Of course, lots of people agree with you that revolvers are simpler, so it is a matter of opinion, and I certainly do understand your point of view.

 

[bofa]

This thread is amusing... sorry I missed it. I fail to see how someone concerned about having a gun around kids would then go on to recommend a revolver over a semi.

Anywho, for the OP I agree with the Glock choice and the S&W wannabe Glocks are just fine as well if on a budget. My Glock 26 and SW40VE have been excellent since purchase and have never misfired, are easy to operate and clean, and have a few reasonable upgrades if you choose. The Glock was my CC for a few years and believe it or not my wife prefers the SW for home defense.

You'll want to check out the full size and compacts to see what fits you better, both in hand and where you may carry. Keep in mind that not all people have the frame to conceal a full size, and if you are in warmer climates, smaller/lighter is better.

Another good choice is the Keltec P11. Its a bit beefier than the PF9 and has a double stack mag for more rounds. I'm usually torn between the size and how many rounds it carries. I hope I'll never need more than 6, but I would hate to find out the hard way.

I love a good 1911, esp my Kimber Eclipse, but I find myself not carrying it as much anymore and instead grabbing the Keltec. They are very nice guns though and even some of the cheaper variants (Rock Island) are reasonable and fun to shoot.

One thing is for sure... if you are going to put it in the 4R, remember to take it out with you whenever you leave the vehicle. I made the mistake of leaving the aforementioned Glock in our Xterra and it was broken into and the gun was stolen.

And +1 on not mixing ammo or starting with a non lethal round. If you need to pull the trigger, it better be worth it, and your goal should not be to injure someone.

 

[Gerdo]

WOW.

this is incredibly off topic at this point. Please continue your conversations here, as this exactly what the thread is intended for:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-topic/132058-official-toyota-4runner-firearms-thread.html

The revolver/semi auto debate is over there now.

 

[Jivewalker]

I never shot a gun in my life. Signed up for a handgun for beginners class. I've been researching and researching what I should get as a good, reliable handgun for home self defense, recreation, and to carry and conceal just in case some wacko decides to start popping off rounds and puts my family in immediate danger. So far I'm leaning towards a Glock 19, they seem to be the Toyota of hand guns, kinda ugly, but very reliable. I'm not looking fo a "pretty" handgun, just one that'll go bang when I need it to. I respect a lot of you guys on here, so your opinions and advice will be very appreciated.

For home self defense: I might reccomend keeping a shotgun handy and a handgun as last resort. Its hard to miss with the shotgun, and if you have to fire it missing is not an option.

For Concealed Carry: Everyone is different and as others have said, caliber isn't as important as finding what YOU can shoot most accurately. A well placed shot with a .22 will have more stopping power than a poorly placed shot with a desert eagle. My .02 Good to hear you want to be as prepared as you can to protect the family.

 

[ICD]

Number one person trying to make gun laws

YouTube

 

[shadow247]

Since you've got a 5th Gen, look at a console vault. This way you can securely lock your pistol if you have to go somewhere that won't allow you to carry inside.

Toyota 4 Runner 2010 - 2013

 

[Reino]

For home self defense: I might reccomend keeping a shotgun handy and a handgun as last resort. Its hard to miss with the shotgun, and if you have to fire it missing is not an option.

Every household in America should have either a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 in it. Get one before you shop for anything else.

 

[scanny]

Why nobody mentioned old good russian Makarov 9 mm? It's inexpensive, small, feels very nice in hand, has good external safety and quite reliable. IMHO a good gun for a beginner.

 

[Texakan]

Personally, I love Sig Sauer. I have a P220 (.45 Auto) and P226 (9mm) and spend quite a bit of time with both of them at the range. So those are the two pistols I have the most experience with and have nothing but good things to say about. Now, I don't carry a firearm (although I think I probably should start, the world seems to be getting crazier every day) but I think that the single double action is a great asset for a CCW and just a firearm in general. The single double action isnt for everyone, but I highly reccomend that people "test drive" it to see if they like it. There's lots of great pistols out there, but I thought I'd just do a little lovin' on the Sigs...

 

[M1911]

I do like 1911 and own several, but the exact point at which the trigger breaks is very predictable and makes 1911's hard to shoot unless you have disciplined trigger control - not a gun for beginners by any means. That exact trigger break repetition often produces what shooters call a "flinch"...a "push" of your hand into the recoil.
The trigger break on a Glock or Springfield XD(M) is much less predictable and the shot goes off as somewhat of a surprise to your brain, so you are less apt to push into the recoil.

I disagree with this. Having taught novices to shoot, they generally did far better with a 1911 than a Glock. With a Glock, their shots were almost always low and left (for a right-handed shooter). The Glock trigger is simply harder to master than a 1911 trigger in my opinion.

A 1911 does require learning how to properly use a safety and Series 70 1911s are not drop safe. In addition, 1911s are more prone to feed failures than Glocks (of course, Glocks are more prone to limp wristing than 1911s...). So while I might agree that 1911s are not the best choice for a beginner, I don't think that is because they are harder to shoot.

 

[Gerdo]

"The trigger break on a Glock or Springfield XD(M) is much less predictable and the shot goes off as somewhat of a surprise to your brain,"

I'm not sure how a trigger release could be unpredictable. These are modern guns we are talking about. There may be some differences between different guns but one gun, one trigger, it should be as predictable as any 1911.

 

[whodat]

Well, thanks for all the feedback guys. I've decided on something smaller to carry and more importantly conceal, a glock 26 9mm. For now, keeping it in an old computer case I had lying around, it has locks on the front and the side. Looking around for a better lockable gun case.

My wife could rack it relatively easy so I could pass it on to her when I get another pistol It really is an expensive addicition! And ammo is really hard to come by!

Once again, thanks gents!