sandcrawler
Senior Member
true, they are built in the same plant so what's the big deal? make it an option, for crying out loud.
i wonder if the 2010's sales figures aren't markedly improved if Toyota will reconsider.
Has anyone gone from a 4th V8 to a 5th V6?
- Thread starter 2003Can4runner
- Start date
i wonder if the 2010's sales figures aren't markedly improved if Toyota will reconsider.
Considering the move away from on-road-civility (in image, anyway), I think it would be hard to expect a massive improvement in sales of the 2010 over the 2009 model. Anyway, I think this works to the advantage of those that want a V8 in the 4Runner. The target market, percentage wise, now contains more people that want a capable utility vehicle instead of something to tow junior to soccer practice.
2003Can4runner
New member
I'm aware the Limited comes with the center diff but the Limited trim is stupid expensive in Canada. I would never consider one. Only down the road when they are used, but even they I imagine they are still quite expensive. I've always loved Toyotas, especially the 4runners. I had a 2000 Limited with locking rear diff and moved to a 5.7L Tundra just because the 4runner couldn't handle the towing duty. After driving that for awhile, I signed the lease over to my Dad to get the truck I've always wanted. 2005 4runner V8 Sport. Towing is a big part of my vehicle ownership so the new 4runner is out in my books at this point. I'd love the 4.6 in the 4runner, or even better a 6cyl diesel which is WAY more unlikely. Oh well, what can ya do.
sandcrawler
Senior Member
you can hope!
Offering another engine requires emissions and mileage testing at the very least. Dunno if it requires crash testing. IIRC, Toyota sold about 15,000 2009 4Runners in the US. So they might sell 20,000 2010 4Runners. V8 take would be less 1/2 that. Say 1/3, or less than 7,000. My guess is that the resulting unit cost for the emissions and mileage testing would be stupidly high.
I hope you are right. But the CAFE standards are scheduled to get stricter over time. That (and if the cost of gas goes up) will likely prevent Toyota from putting in a V8. In fact, the current V6 likely won't be fuel efficient enough.
V8 AWD 4EVR
New member
2003Canadian, I agree with you on the extreme cost difference between SR5 and Limited. 10K?!!!
I don't see why they would need some crazy expensive new round of tests when the Lexus GX7932 whatever has the 4.6 liter engine as does the Tundra.
Just slap one in and get going. I'm obviously not an expert, but it seems like most of the work has probably been done. I also recall paying a 2K premium for the V8 engine in 2003, so that amount or even a bit more should be a reasonable extra cost for dropping in the already tested and approved 4.6 engine.
JMHO.
They still have 11 months to get it right!
V8
I don't see why they would need some crazy expensive new round of tests when the Lexus GX7932 whatever has the 4.6 liter engine as does the Tundra.
Just slap one in and get going. I'm obviously not an expert, but it seems like most of the work has probably been done. I also recall paying a 2K premium for the V8 engine in 2003, so that amount or even a bit more should be a reasonable extra cost for dropping in the already tested and approved 4.6 engine.
JMHO.
They still have 11 months to get it right!
V8
sandcrawler
Senior Member
what do you mean exactly?
sandcrawler
Senior Member
all other things aside, it must be vexing for Toyota to read something to the effect of "Where's the V8?" or "The 4.6 liter V8 would be a welcome addition" in nearly every review of the 2010 4Runner.
i'm not saying the new V6 is anything to sneeze at, but Toyota is certainly trotting out the "new V6 is better than the previous V8" line with paranoiac frequency…
i'm not saying the new V6 is anything to sneeze at, but Toyota is certainly trotting out the "new V6 is better than the previous V8" line with paranoiac frequency…
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Because you have to test mileage of the 4Runner with a V8 according to EPA regulations. While the GX460 is similar, it isn't the same. It has a different body and is heavier, so the mileage ratings of the GX won't apply to the 4Runner.
In addition, the emissions testing is for the vehicle, not the drivetrain -- you have the test the whole package.
It isn't already tested and approved in the 4Runner. That's the point. They don't test the engine on a dyno to determine mileage and emissions. They test the vehicle. Mileage ratings of the 4.6 in a Tundra or GX are completely immaterial to the mileage ratings of the 4.6 in a 4Runner.
Yes, some of the engineering has already been done -- they can likely use the identical transmission, center diff, and driveshaft from the GX. But that doesn't satisfy the Feds and the testing is time consuming and expensive.
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Crash testing is a good point. I worked on a project once where we were getting engines from out of the country for start of production. When we localized the engine to the US, we had to do some extensive crash testing because the local made parts around the fuel system/intake had a slightly different shape and material. Any difference to the front of the vehicle could have very different results in a crash test. I'm not sure how much that cost, though.
My understanding is that a large portion of crash testing and fuel economy testing is done in house and the Fed eventually gets around to it.
My understanding is that a large portion of crash testing and fuel economy testing is done in house and the Fed eventually gets around to it.
Thats impossible, the 05+ V8 did 0-60 in 6.86 seconds, the 2010 is 7.8
FWIW, I test drove a 2010 and was less than impressed with low end grunt.
I guess if those are the stats those are the stats. really if you want a fast car, ya need to buy something else. but I believe we are all on here with runners for a reason. I guess what I meant is, I thought horrible thoughts about the V6, as I had driven many 4th gen V6's and was never impressed, always liked going home to my own V8's. but, I gave the 2010 a try and honestly its a whole different animal. quite like the 4.7, and for a 6 it gets up and goes, no, its not a sports car, nor do I expect it to be. but overall, its not nearly as lackluster as the 4th Gen V6. Personally, everytime I sit in the 5th gen, I realize what a better vehicle it is over ANY 4th Gen's in creature comfort. the Dash, the controls, and the seating are way better. Oh, and the window switches are actually usuable, yes, whoever the engineer was for the 4th gen window switches should be kicked in the nads! unless you are 5foot 2, its totally unhandy where they are located. I would of bought a V8 powered 4Runner for 2010 if they made it. But, they didnt, and I would rather own a V6 Runner than anything else in that price range, very partial to Toyota. Someday if all the greatness of Center diff and V8 show up in it, good. but banking on that is silly.
FWIW, I test drove a 2010 and was less than impressed with low end grunt.
I guess if those are the stats those are the stats. really if you want a fast car, ya need to buy something else. but I believe we are all on here with runners for a reason. I guess what I meant is, I thought horrible thoughts about the V6, as I had driven many 4th gen V6's and was never impressed, always liked going home to my own V8's. but, I gave the 2010 a try and honestly its a whole different animal. quite like the 4.7, and for a 6 it gets up and goes, no, its not a sports car, nor do I expect it to be. but overall, its not nearly as lackluster as the 4th Gen V6. Personally, everytime I sit in the 5th gen, I realize what a better vehicle it is over ANY 4th Gen's in creature comfort. the Dash, the controls, and the seating are way better. Oh, and the window switches are actually usuable, yes, whoever the engineer was for the 4th gen window switches should be kicked in the nads! unless you are 5foot 2, its totally unhandy where they are located. I would of bought a V8 powered 4Runner for 2010 if they made it. But, they didnt, and I would rather own a V6 Runner than anything else in that price range, very partial to Toyota. Someday if all the greatness of Center diff and V8 show up in it, good. but banking on that is silly.
Tiresidedown
New member
V8 to V6
I figured I would chime in here. I made the move and ordered a 2010 Limited 4x4 just the other day. I currently drive a Tundra Limited TRD 4x4 with the 5.7 V8.
When I first drove the V6 I was a little bummed on the lack of power and low end torque as I was used to the monster that I currently push around. The second time I drove the 4R, (this time, a Limited version), I was more than happy with the on road feel of the truck and the power, really, is more than enough for a truck of this size.
With the gas prices doomed to soar over the coming years, I figured it was a hit I was willing to take. I needed something with more room, more comfort, saftey and reliability.
If you are looking for something that has a great off road pedigree in a mid-sized SUV, I really don’t think that there are many other options out there. I looked at the new GX (way too pricey at 57k) and the Land Rover LR4 (also pricey, HSE Plus is about 54k). I can’t tell you how many times I would mention the fact that my Tundra could tow a bazillion pounds when I first got the truck. I used this towing capacity once in three years. Honestly.
This is obviously a personal outlook on things but when considering a reliable 4x4 SUV, I kept coming right back to the 5th Gen 4R….regardless of the V6.
And hey…maybe there will be a TRD SC kit for it soon.
I figured I would chime in here. I made the move and ordered a 2010 Limited 4x4 just the other day. I currently drive a Tundra Limited TRD 4x4 with the 5.7 V8.
When I first drove the V6 I was a little bummed on the lack of power and low end torque as I was used to the monster that I currently push around. The second time I drove the 4R, (this time, a Limited version), I was more than happy with the on road feel of the truck and the power, really, is more than enough for a truck of this size.
With the gas prices doomed to soar over the coming years, I figured it was a hit I was willing to take. I needed something with more room, more comfort, saftey and reliability.
If you are looking for something that has a great off road pedigree in a mid-sized SUV, I really don’t think that there are many other options out there. I looked at the new GX (way too pricey at 57k) and the Land Rover LR4 (also pricey, HSE Plus is about 54k). I can’t tell you how many times I would mention the fact that my Tundra could tow a bazillion pounds when I first got the truck. I used this towing capacity once in three years. Honestly.
This is obviously a personal outlook on things but when considering a reliable 4x4 SUV, I kept coming right back to the 5th Gen 4R….regardless of the V6.
And hey…maybe there will be a TRD SC kit for it soon.
V8 AWD 4EVR
New member
First, I have been enjoying this thread and forum. I love the looks of the new 4Runner, and despite the cost of the Limited and its silly 20 inch wheels, I agree the quality of the build and feature set of the Torsen equipped Limited is unmatched right now (same for SR5 and TE, but I require the Torsen AWD system). So I am not saying the vehicle is not quality.
I have thought about this, and barring someone from Toyota marketing actually engaging with the enthusiast community (crazy idea, waste of time of course), based on the engine options and the weight increase, I feel Toyota tried to thread one too many needles.
I think a business decision was made to focus on the V6 based on a belief that rising fuel prices and economic conditions would kill demand for a V8. Except they never talked to us V8 owners, and most of us are prepared to trade one or 2 less MPGs versus the added utility.
However, a business decision was also made at Toyota that the new 2010 4Runner with ANY engine had to have a GVWR of over 6000 pounds so small business owners could buy them for business use and take the special IRS Section 179 deduction for the vehicle (an accelerated type of depreciation - ask your CPA about it). This is a major factor in vehicle selection since the government wont allow you to take the same deduction for a Prius or some other car of your choice. Social engineering at its finest I suppose.
This left Toyota's 2010 4Runner with a porky curb weight of about 500 pound more than the 4th Gen and a nice, light, efficient, powerful V6 engine that was almost as good as the V8 when the car weighed 10% less than it does now.
Keep in mind that the V6 4th gens did NOT satisfy the 6000 GVWR IRS requirement, ONLY the heavy V8 engine did so, and even then only by "FIVE," yes only 5 pounds. the V8 4th Gens have a published GVWR of 6005 lbs.
So that is my story of how we got a significantly heavier vehicle and a fuel and power efficient V6 engine that would have be nice in the lighter 4th Gen but just cant satisfy those of us with the need for an SUV that can tow some stuff and has good low end torque for mud and slop.
They tried to have their cake and eat it too!
Sandcrawler, what I meant was they have 11 months to add a V8 to the 4Runner and still call it a 2010! Hope over reason, I know, I know.....
Cheers all,
V8
I have thought about this, and barring someone from Toyota marketing actually engaging with the enthusiast community (crazy idea, waste of time of course), based on the engine options and the weight increase, I feel Toyota tried to thread one too many needles.
I think a business decision was made to focus on the V6 based on a belief that rising fuel prices and economic conditions would kill demand for a V8. Except they never talked to us V8 owners, and most of us are prepared to trade one or 2 less MPGs versus the added utility.
However, a business decision was also made at Toyota that the new 2010 4Runner with ANY engine had to have a GVWR of over 6000 pounds so small business owners could buy them for business use and take the special IRS Section 179 deduction for the vehicle (an accelerated type of depreciation - ask your CPA about it). This is a major factor in vehicle selection since the government wont allow you to take the same deduction for a Prius or some other car of your choice. Social engineering at its finest I suppose.
This left Toyota's 2010 4Runner with a porky curb weight of about 500 pound more than the 4th Gen and a nice, light, efficient, powerful V6 engine that was almost as good as the V8 when the car weighed 10% less than it does now.
Keep in mind that the V6 4th gens did NOT satisfy the 6000 GVWR IRS requirement, ONLY the heavy V8 engine did so, and even then only by "FIVE," yes only 5 pounds. the V8 4th Gens have a published GVWR of 6005 lbs.
So that is my story of how we got a significantly heavier vehicle and a fuel and power efficient V6 engine that would have be nice in the lighter 4th Gen but just cant satisfy those of us with the need for an SUV that can tow some stuff and has good low end torque for mud and slop.
They tried to have their cake and eat it too!
Sandcrawler, what I meant was they have 11 months to add a V8 to the 4Runner and still call it a 2010! Hope over reason, I know, I know.....
Cheers all,
V8
The manufacturers do the emissions and fuel economy testing themselves. The feds audit a certain number of the tests.
The manufacturers also do their own crash testing. NHTSA and an insurance consortium also do crash testing. IIRC, the manufacturer's crash testing alone requires 40 vehicles. So, if we are considering vehicles worth $30,000 each, 40 of them is worth $1,200,000. And that doesn't count the cost of the testing itself -- it must add up to millions.
