Homemade Roof Rack - Constructive Criticism Please

[High_Country]

I'm on a brainstorming mission to create my own roof rack. I have welding and fabrication skills and equipment. I'd like anyone's constructive criticism that cares to offer it - I take opinions and criticism well.

A few premises prior to your input:
1) This is in no way intended to be as attractive or as functional as a Gobi, Baja, whatever...I recognize this.
2) My time is precious so something simple and straightforward to fabricate was sought after. Again, back to not making it as attractive as a Gobi or other home-builds I've seen
3) I am going to be using the factory roof rails (similar in concept to the Rocky Road Outfitters rack)
4) I want it to be low profile. You'll see this sticks up just 1/8"+/- above the factory rail end caps
5) The rack will be used mainly for lighter duty items (tents, bags, etc) but I'm hoping it is substantial enough for a potential RTT setup in the future.

I am planning attaching the rack to the rails with channel nuts...like these...

...slid into the existing rails and running a bolt through the rack frame and into the channel nuts effectively clamping the rack to the rails. I started a thread about that attachment method here:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/194751-home-made-cross-bars-factory-trail-roof-rack.html

Following are sketchup images of the design. It's a crude mockup...take it easy. ; ) (Anyone know where an entire 5th Gen model sketchup model is?) I think the design speaks for itself. The frame is made of 2x2 angle and the cross bars are 1.25" square tubing. I plan on covering the rack with either heavy duty expanded metal or some other heavier grating.

I also plan on bolting these (or similar product) on TOP of the angle iron around almost the entire perimeter (sides and front) for multiple and adjustable lashing points:

Okay, here goes:
Basic side pieces (offset at ends to clear the end caps)

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And the basic rack

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I also plan on fabbing a fairing or deflector for the front, matching the profile of the front of the end caps, but wanted to get the basics out there for critique before developing the model further.

Oh, and the model does NOT take into account the arch of the factory rails - too tedious to model but this can be accounted for when the holes are drilled into the angle.

 

[On Point]

concept seems doable. as far as the weight that the factory rails will hold, not sure if a RTT would work.

looking forward to your progression!

 

[High_Country]

as far as the weight that the factory rails will hold, not sure if a RTT would work.

Understand. I've seen other threads where people were questioning the capacity of the factory rails (mostly in reference to bolting the Rocky road rack to them). Most agree that the factory rails are pretty stout and it's the flimsy OEM crossbars that limit capacity. Rocky road punts on the issue and says their rack will hold a thousand pounds and you're only limited by your roof.

If anyone has any insight on this, lemme know!

 

[CSix]

I currently use Yakima's for Ski/Bike racks. Weight is not all that great and the Yakima book says 165 pound limit. But, that is moving weight. Is there a difference between static and moving weight you want to support? Just a thought. Like the idea.

 

[High_Country]

I would say yes there is a difference between moving weight and static weight that I want to support. In addition to the hopes of a rooftop tent someday (heavier with people sleeping in it while static...well, mostly static), I can also see myself up there, moving around to load and unload, or in general putting extra stuff up there while at camp.

 

[Intruder]

If you plan on using it to support an RTT you'll want to pay attention to how much clearance there is between the roof and the rack because of how the bolts stick down for the mounting brackets. It isn't just the clearance for the bolts themselves, but also the clearance you'll need to thread the nuts on.

Found this pic online to give you an idea:

 

[Jetboy]

Although the factory crossbars are pretty wimpy, the factory rails are not a whole lot better. Really just walk around on you roof and you'll get a pretty good idea of how weak it is. With 200lbs of gear you'll see the roof structure start to depress where the factor rail mounts to the body. I would be very leery of carrying more than that up there. When you consider what happens when you hit a bump at speed, or worse spend a day in the backcountry, weight up there isn't doing the roof many favors. Static load can be quite a bit more. I guess if it were me - I'd look for the lightest possible RTT to put on a 4runner and make sure it has good support when setup to carry body weight.


As far as your design:

I would skip the plan to try to contour to fit the plastic end caps. Just space your angle off the rack rails by a few mm with washers, or more likely use angle that is short enough to fit between the two end caps.

The curve of the roof is a problem for me. For example even with the curved factory roof bars, my yakima box will not fit. The mounting hardware is about 3/4" thick under the bar and empty it's only 1/4" clearance above the roof in the middle. Once you put anything in it, it hits the roof on bumps. I put small pads of clear-bra material where it rubs because I needed to use it once, but otherwise I'll need to put different bars on that sit at least above the top of the factor rail height. Make sure to mock this up before you weld to make sure you have plenty of clearance above the roof in the center. The way it is drawn is likely to hit the roof.

What I would do= and probably will do whenever I get around to wanting a roof rack is something like this with riser plates/brackets. They are easy to make and would allow you to set the height of your rack wherever you want it. There's another rack with somewhat similar style risers I've seen on here.

 

[Titanpat57]

After spending lots of time where you are now...I came to the conclusion that the factory rails just don't warrant (from a structural standpoint) too much effort, and will probably still not do what you want it after the efforts.

In hindsight I would've went right to an aftermarket solution.

Just my 2 cents

 

[DesertCanyons]

DIY roof rack

I'm on a brainstorming mission to create my own roof rack. I have welding and fabrication skills and equipment. I'd like anyone's constructive criticism that cares to offer it - I take opinions and criticism well.

A few premises prior to your input:
1) This is in no way intended to be as attractive or as functional as a Gobi, Baja, whatever...I recognize this.
2) My time is precious so something simple and straightforward to fabricate was sought after. Again, back to not making it as attractive as a Gobi or other home-builds I've seen
3) I am going to be using the factory roof rails (similar in concept to the Rocky Road Outfitters rack)
4) I want it to be low profile. You'll see this sticks up just 1/8"+/- above the factory rail end caps
5) The rack will be used mainly for lighter duty items (tents, bags, etc) but I'm hoping it is substantial enough for a potential RTT setup in the future.

I am planning attaching the rack to the rails with channel nuts...like these...
...slid into the existing rails and running a bolt through the rack frame and into the channel nuts effectively clamping the rack to the rails. I started a thread about that attachment method here:
Following are sketchup images of the design. It's a crude mockup...take it easy. ; ) ...I think the design speaks for itself. The frame is made of 2x2 angle and the cross bars are 1.25" square tubing. I plan on covering the rack with either heavy duty expanded metal or some other heavier grating.

I also plan on bolting these (or similar product) on TOP of the angle iron around almost the entire perimeter (sides and front) for multiple and adjustable lashing points:
Okay, here goes:
Basic side pieces (offset at ends to clear the end caps)

... Oh, and the model does NOT take into account the arch of the factory rails - too tedious to model but this can be accounted for when the holes are drilled into the angle.

The concept is good. I see no reason why the stock roof rack end rail support points would support anything less than the custom aftermarket racks with simple bent plate supports bolted at the same locations. No, you cant walk around on the middle of the roof without bending or depressing it. But the rails bolt to a naturally strong point on the roof near the edge that may also be internally reinforced.

I think the comments in the post above (by Jetboy?) make good points about deflection when loaded. You need more space between the rack and the roof to allow for bending of the rack when you stand up there or carry loads on a rough road. Any bounce will cause deflection.

The side angles are too complex. If you're using 1&1/2 square tube it will easily cantilever 6 or 8 inches past the roof rack ends. I'd flip the 2x2 angles so the leg is below the rack, not on top of the frame as I is shown. Then it only needs a few small welds to support the square tube. The 2x2 angles have an inside radius that will not permit a square tube to fit in snug on both legs. The tube will have to stand off from one of the legs to clear the radius.

Consider welding on two or three fixed anchor points, U-bolts or rings, at optimum locations for tying down loads. One at each corner and one in the middle on each side. The mechanical rails and loops you show are more than you need and overly complex.

To solve the defection and clearance issues and make it easier to build, I'd suggest deleting the part of the angles wrapping around the rail ends, use the angle in the orientation you show, place the tube steel frame on top of the horizontal legs and weld as needed. Consider turning the top horizontal leg out over the rails to get more width on the frame.

If all of this assembly were welded together, could you still remove the rack by unbolting from the wing nuts you show?

Count all of the materials, add up the cost of materials, put a value on your fab' time and see how it compares to buying a Baja Utility rack. the Rocky Road with some modifications, or any other flat low roof rack. Sometimes the materials cost as much as a simple rack from a popular brand.

 

[High_Country]

If you plan on using it to support an RTT you'll want to pay attention to how much clearance there is between the roof and the rack because of how the bolts stick down for the mounting brackets. It isn't just the clearance for the bolts themselves, but also the clearance you'll need to thread the nuts on.

Found this pic online to give you an idea:

Thanks for the reminder. I had looked at a RTT mounted up on an FJ80 not too long ago and noted the need for this clearance. I appreciate it!

 

[High_Country]

the factory rails are not a whole lot better. Really just walk around on you roof and you'll get a pretty good idea of how weak it is. With 200lbs of gear you'll see the roof structure start to depress where the factor rail mounts to the body. I would be very leery of carrying more than that up there.

While I understand what you're saying, how would this be different with one of the nice aftermarket solutions that bolt to the same exact spots? I know the full length ones (Gobi) use another set of feet for up front but the majority of the racks put the majority of the load over the same points. ????

space your angle off the rack rails by a few mm with washers, or more likely use angle that is short enough to fit between the two end caps.

I actually thought about this but I wanted to keep the new rails as tight against the factor ones to prevent torquing or twisting at the mounting points. Creating the offsets, while visually complex, shouldn't' be much more than a couple 45 degreed cuts in the horizontal leg of the angle, bending, and welding up. This is probably my one concession to the premise of 'keeping it simple and quick'.

The curve of the roof is a problem for me. Make sure to mock this up before you weld to make sure you have plenty of clearance above the roof in the center. The way it is drawn is likely to hit the roof.

Right on! I'll make sure and do a mockup prior to finish welding for sure. I tried to space everything up quite a bit to end up with at least an inch clear under everything.

What I would do is something like this with riser plates/brackets. They are easy to make and would allow you to set the height of your rack wherever you want it. There's another rack with somewhat similar style risers I've seen on here.

I think the riser bracket idea is pretty good. It goes against somewhat the notion of it being low profile but function is clearly key here.

Thanks for all your comments / ideas.

 

[High_Country]

After spending lots of time where you are now...I came to the conclusion that the factory rails just don't warrant (from a structural standpoint) too much effort, and will probably still not do what you want it after the efforts.

In hindsight I would've went right to an aftermarket solution.

Just my 2 cents

I can definitely appreciate this. I've done this before in the past more times than I care to admit: spent too much time and effort trying to be 'cheap' and ended up with a sub par solution, frustration, lost weekends, and in the end I ended up buying the nice aftermarket version anyways!

But again, this post brings into question the strength of the factory mounting points. I am planning on attaching the home made rack as close to the mounting points (near the ends of the factory rails) as possible to transfer all the load into the mounting points and not so much of the rails.

 

[High_Country]

The concept is good. I see no reason why the stock roof rack end rail support points would support anything less than the custom aftermarket racks with simple bent plate supports bolted at the same locations. But the rails bolt to a naturally strong point on the roof near the edge that may also be internally reinforced.

I concur, per some of my earlier posts. By transferring the load from the custom rack to the OE rails as close as possible to the rail mounting points on the roof, I am hoping to decrease the load going into the rails and getting the shortest load path into the roof mounting points. This is why I'm not bolting the rack to the mid-point or mid span of the factory rails.

The side angles are too complex. If you're using 1&1/2 square tube it will easily cantilever 6 or 8 inches past the roof rack ends.

Thats not a bad idea. Again, I don't know how complicated offsetting the angles will be as all would be needed would be two cuts into the angle, bending, and some welding. But, I'll take this into consideration.

I'd flip the 2x2 angles so the leg is below the rack, not on top of the frame as I is shown. Then it only needs a few small welds to support the square tube. The 2x2 angles have an inside radius that will not permit a square tube to fit in snug on both legs. The tube will have to stand off from one of the legs to clear the radius.

All good points. I originally started with the angles oriented that way and putting the cross bars (tubing) on top of the angles. BUT, I wouldn't end up with a flat floor (assuming the grating or expanded metal goes below the cross bars). But I suppose I could put the grating on TOP of the cross bars....hmmmm.

Consider welding on two or three fixed anchor points, U-bolts or rings, at optimum locations for tying down loads. One at each corner and one in the middle on each side. The mechanical rails and loops you show are more than you need and overly complex.

Fair point, but that wouldn't satisfy my need to buy something shiny, techy, or cool. ; ) In all seriousness though, I'll do some cost research and make a cost/benefit decision. As soon as I weld on a few loops, sure enough they'll be in the wrong spot when I go to load something and tie it down. I do like the idea of 'infinite' adjustability of tie down points.

To solve the defection and clearance issues and make it easier to build, I'd suggest deleting the part of the angles wrapping around the rail ends, use the angle in the orientation you show, place the tube steel frame on top of the horizontal legs and weld as needed. Consider turning the top horizontal leg out over the rails to get more width on the frame.

I like this idea or something similar. I could fab up some heavy rails out of angle that bolt to the factory rails and then have different components that I could bolt on as necessary for the trip - a frame made out of tubing, or maybe just an awning, or a spare tire carrier....you name it. Interesting...hmmmm....

If all of this assembly were welded together, could you still remove the rack by unbolting from the wing nuts you show?

I HOPE so and I don't see why not, but that arc in the rails gives me some anxiety.

Count all of the materials, add up the cost of materials, put a value on your fab' time and see how it compares to buying a Baja Utility rack. the Rocky Road with some modifications, or any other flat low roof rack. Sometimes the materials cost as much as a simple rack from a popular brand.

I appreciate this. I have NOT added up the materials, but let's say I need 20 feet of 2x2 angle, 20 feet of 1.25 inch tubing, and a 4x8 sheet of expanded metal or grating. Surely that's not more than $100 even throwing in some hardware.

And, given the simple design, it shouldn't take more than a Saturday...okay, maybe Sunday morning too...to make. All straight cuts, all simple welding and attachments.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea and look and the functionality of a Gobi or full length Baja or something but dang...that's $1400 and is essentially 'permanently' mounted whereas this could be put on and off.

I dunno...

 

[Swarty]

Yuu're already doing custom work...

Thanks for the reminder. I had looked at a RTT mounted up on an FJ80 not too long ago and noted the need for this clearance. I appreciate it!

I think this is a good thought. But as long as you can reach the spot where the attachment points are you could use a bent piece of steel and shorter bolts... There's no reason for those bolt ends to be the lowest points.

 

[KodeRush]

I made a similar design roof rack a couple years ago and it has been served me really well.



For the crossbar pipe.


How to bolt:

You can find the nut just a little bigger than the pipe inner diameter, then use hammer to jam the nut in.


Pros:
- Each crossbar can be taken off individually by taking out the two bolts on each end.
- I leave all of the crossbars on as there's only very minimal wind noise after I put a piece of wind deflector in the front.
- It has held myself standing on it, a bunch of 2x4s, whole sheets of plywood, cargo box, jerry cans, Hi-Lift and experienced thousands of KMs of road trips, without any problem.
- Easy to built. You can find every thing from your local hardware store.
- The two side bars are 3/8 aluminium, strong yet light weight.
- Low profile. I found some aftermarket racks are too high for some parking structure if you are lifted and have bigger tires.

Cons:
- I don't feel very comfortable to put a lot of weight, like a roof-top-tent, or 30 2x4s. Not too worried about the rack, I'm actually worried about the OEM roof rail. I couldn't find the load rating of the OEM roof rail(I can only find the OEM crossbars are rated at 220lb?).
- Not as big/wide as aftermarket ones.

 

[High_Country]

I made a similar design roof rack a couple years ago and it has been served me well.

I really like this idea. It got me thinking that maybe the 2x2 angle is a bit overkill - in weight, in strength, and in fabrication complexity. I may instead opt, like in this rack, to go with some 1/4" or 3/16" steel side plates and then weld square tubing cross bars to them. I could then have complete control over the height.

Using plate steel for the side plates would allow much easier and quicker fabrication of the offsets to get in between the end caps (I still don't like the idea of offsetting the side plates from the rails). If I felt torsional rigidity was a concern between the side plates and square tubing, I could add some gussets.

I still want to go ahead and put a 'floor' of some kind in there rather than rely on the cross bars being in the right place or spaced frequently enough.

Hmmmmm.....back to the drawing board. ; )