The "Ups and Downs" of my C.B.I. experience...
I can't think of any way to do a write up on this experience that is NOT wordy. So :thanks: in advance to anyone who takes the time to read through the next couple of posts.
This weekend, I finally got my CBI rear bumper installed. The process of getting the bumper & installing it was not as smooth as I hoped it would be, and as promised, I will spell out the details below.
IMO, the best place to start is with a timeline. This will illustrate most of the issues I had w/the bumper and w/CBI as a vendor.
2/29/12 – Placed order for bumper, gave down payment of $800.
3/5/12- Requested pictures of swing away options from Nathan @ CBI, which he provided. Decided on swing away format & finalized bumper order.
I ordered the following specs on the bumper:
3rd Gen Plate bumper w/Swing Away Tire Carrier.
Tire carrier centered.
Height adjustable tire carrier requested.
¾ length swing arm.
SR5/Limited/Bushwacker flare width.
Hi-Lift Jack Mount.
No body lift.
No exhaust port.
No backup lights.
No gas can carrier.
Black Magic Powder Coat on bumper & swing arm.
3/27/12 – Nathan sends an email to confirm whether or not I want a body lift on my bumper. I reply to confirm that I do NOT want a body lift setup. At this time I asked that CBI do me a favor and take some pics of the bumper as it was being built, so I could see a bit of the process. I was told this was no problem, but no pictures were ever sent to me.
4/2/12 – Email from Nathan indicating that my bumper is going to the powder coater.
4/3/12 – Steve @ CBI calls to inform me that CBI is waiting on a supplier for a part needed to build the swing away. Estimated delay of 1-2 weeks. Steve offers to build my swing away without the adjustable tire height feature for faster shipping, I reply that I want what I ordered, and will wait.
4/24/12 – Call from CBI indicating that the bumper is finished and ready to ship. Paid final balance due.
4/27/12 – First bumper received and picked up @ Estes. Damage to powder coat finish in multiple locations. Damage noted w/Estes and call placed to CBI to inform of damage. CBI agrees to refund $200 for powder coating cost.
I paid for a perfect finish and that's what I expected, so I felt the $200 refund on the powdercoat was completely justified. On the other hand I knew that eventually I would scratch the bumper up myself, so rather than have the powder coating re-done, I figured I'd get some matching rattle can paint, touch up the bumper, and net the $200.
Just for posterity, these are a couple of pics I took of the damage to the finish.
Additionally, the box containing the hardware was shredded. Estes gave me a box containing the loose hardware that they ended up w/@ arrival. Most of it was there, but I was missing a retaining washer, a nut & bolt, and the license plate light was crushed.
And there it was... scratched up, but ready to install.
4/30/12 – Attempted to install first bumper, mounting holes didn't line up. Main mounting points on bumper are drilled ½ too narrow center to center, and vertical mounting points are off by ½” as well. Called CBI to resolve. CBI offered to pay a local shop to enlarge mounting holes, or build a replacement bumper. I opted for a replacement bumper because I wanted it RIGHT. Nathan sends a bill of lading for return shipping on the first bumper. I wait to ship the first bumper back until the second bumper is delivered.
On the day of the first install attempt I got all my tools ready, and secured the help of a friend. We got the bumper on the frame, and realized we had a big problem.
Driver's side mounting points:
Notice in this picture, with the bolt removed, that the bumper is pushed over as far toward the passenger side as the existing mounting holes will allow.
And the passenger side:
And the vertical mounting points @ the forward end of the bumper bracket, on the outside of the frame.
:ybrick: In order to make this bumper work, I would have had to enlarge all of the mounting holes. The holes that lined up w/the mounting points on the bottom of the frame rail were 39 1/8" center to center, and the mounting points on the frame were 39 5/8" center to center. The mounting holes on the bumper were 1/2" too narrow and were impossible to align w/the mounting points on the frame. Not to mention the vertical mounting points were way off, as pictured above.
Rather than fight that battle, or deal w/the hassle of hauling the bumper to a local shop and back, I opted to give CBI a second try at getting me something that would fit. I asked Nathan at CBI to start work on a replacement bumper. I really wanted a bumper that fit right "out of the box" rather than something that had to be modified.
5/2-3/12 - Fishing trip to Northern NM to try and relax...
Fish and mountains made me feel a little better...
5/4-6/12 – Fishing trip to CO that I wanted to do in the ’01 as a shakedown run (to ensure the new rear end was in order). Had to take the ’97 instead because the ’01 was in the garage w/no rear bumper.
5/10-13/12 – Road trip to Denver/Ft. Collins, CO that I wanted to do in the ’01 as a shakedown run and to show the truck to my family. Had to take the ’97 instead because the ’01 was in the garage w/no rear bumper.
I ordered the bumper in February so that it would be ready and installed in time for this particular trip.
5/12/12 – Email from Nathan indicating that the second bumper is complete and awaiting powder coating. Slight delay @ powder coaters because his oven motor is out.
5/14/12 – New bumper is shipped from CBI via Estes.
5/15/12 – Follow up email sent to Nathan, requesting a discount on the order due to all the hassle.
5/16/12 – Nathan responds to my request, offers $50 off the order.
5/17/12 -
Second bumper delivered. I go to pick it up at Estes and find that the swing arm has been built to span the full width of the bumper, not the ¾ width as requested. Called CBI to resolve. Nathan @ CBI asks “if I’m really going to bicker over 6 inches?” :rockthrow:
HELL YES! I felt that there was no reason I should have to accept a product that was not built to order, especially considering how much I paid for the product.
Upon further inspection, I found that the mounting points on the new bumper were the same width as the original, and had simply been enlarged, rather than drilled at the appropriate width. CBI had essentially modified the replacement bumper in the same way I would have had to modify the first bumper in order to make it fit.
I rejected the new bumper. Rather than keep a bumper that was not built to spec, and which had been modified in the same way the first bumper would have needed to be modified, I decided to keep the first bumper, retain the $200 discount for the damaged powder coat (which I would have lost if I'd taken the second bumper instead), and simply enlarge the holes on the first bumper myself.
Nathan reluctantly agreed to honor the $50 discount they offered, despite me rejecting the second bumper. Basically, the way I got my head around it is to think of it like this:
I received a "scratch & dent" product that will take more work than it should to fit & install, and in turn I received a $250 discount. Not the ideal outcome at all, but an outcome that I can accept. However, I would have strongly preferred to pay full price for a product with the fit and finish that I initially expected.
6/6/12 - After all was said and done, apparently I lit a fire under somebody's ass:
In the interest of accountability, I am going to post an email I recieved from CBI on 6/6. It looks like they sent this out to all the customers who have ever purchased a 3rd gen rear plate bumper.
I have to give them credit for making the effort. It looks like they are trying to get things ironed out.
CBI Offroad 3rd Gen 4Runner Plate Bumper
Fitment Issues
It has come to our attention that there has been some fitment issues with some of the 3rd gen 4runner plate bumpers we have sent out. Thanks to several customers who have made us aware of this issue over the last month we are conducting a follow up with all customers who have purchased a 3rd gen Toyota 4Runner plate rear bumper.
Our goal in doing this is to work with each customer to determine the issues with the bumper mounting holes and to correct our mistakes so that all future bumpers will be correct.
The issue is that the mounting holes for each frame rail are too narrow. This has caused the bolts to not line up correctly with the factory holes in the frame. The fix for this issue is to widen out the holes so that the bolts will line up correctly and thread into the captive nuts in the frame. We realize that some customer just went ahead and did this and made their bumper fit without our knowledge of the problem.
We wish to address the issue of widening the bumper holes and how it will affect your bumper and we wish to also address those customers who we have not spoken with and provided a solution to this problem.
1. Widening the holes in the bumper mounts will not have any ill affect on the fitment or function of your bumper. In reality the holes are supposed to have some adjustment in them left to right and front to back. This will not have an affect on your bumper when used for recovery situations either. The only additional parts we can supply if necessary are strut washers for enlarged holes that are beyond the capacity of the washers we supply.
2. The solution is obviously to widen the mounting holes of the bumper. If you have not spoken with anyone at CBI about your fitment issues we would like to hear from you and make sure that your bumper is mounted properly and provide a solution, where needed, to rectify any issues.
Information:
Our intent of this email is to also gather information to verify that the changes we have made to this bumper this week will solve all future problems. We ask that you please answer a few questions to help us in this effort.
1. What year is your 4runner?
2. What engine and model is your 4runner?
3. What is the measurement from center to center of the mounting bolts into the frame on your vehicle?
4. What fitment issues, if any, did you have with your bumper?
We want each of you to know that we greatly appreciate your business and the help that you are providing. Our goal at CBI Offroad is to provide the best products available for your Toyota and for this reason we are going to such length and efforts to get the fitment of this bumper correct. We do apologize for any that have had issues with their bumpers and we recognize the hassle and time you have taken to get your product to fit correctly. We know we can not make every situation perfect but we are commited to do what we can to follow up with your purchase.
It is you, our customers, who have built CBI Offroad and we want to represent it in the best way possible. All the feedback and ideas over the years have given birth to the products we now offer and we want to continue to serve you and your off-roading needs the best way possible. Please contact us by phone or email with any concerns you may have.
We look forward to hearing from you all!
The CREW @ CBI Offroad Fab
By the way, since CBI has neglected their introduction post here on T4R.org, I also want to mention that the offer they make here:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/www-c...-cbi-offroad-fab-introduction.html#post714356
Regarding your product shipping within 4 weeks or you recieve 25% off.... yeah, that's been discontinued and CBI will no longer honor that offer. I think they need to take it off the site, but they have yet to do so.
