I just realized what Toyota is Doing!
- Thread starter KCcarguy
- Start date
Had every Gen of Grand Cherokee and 3rd, 4th and 5th Gen 4Runner. Had lots of issues with the Jeeps. Swore off them. 7,000 miles into my 5th Gen I could not stand the thing. The cheap interior, uncomfortable seats, hollow doors, terrible stereo, lack of features, awful steering and handling and noisy engine. Took a huge gamble and bough a 12 Grand Cherokee. Against my own advice of telling people to stay away from Jeep. Anyway, I am at 8500 miles and no issues. 22-23mpg and plenty of features. Leather, remote start, power lift gate, full time 4wd, great handling and steering, dual zone climate, leather heated seats, nav, backup cam, 9 speaker Alpine stereo, keyless access and much quieter ride. JGC, 4Runners always my favorite. I am still interested in the direction the 4Runner goes. The 2014 JGC with have a refresh, 8 speed trans, Diesel option, 8.5" touch screen, LED rears etc. Prolly around 25mpg out of the V6 and 30mpg from the diesel. Toyota quality has slipped. My 00 and 08 were better than the 11. My moms 2000 Camry is better than sisters 09 Camry. I am not a Jeep fanboy and jumped ship until they put a quality product out there. If you NEED a BOF then a 4Runner is about your only choice other than a 4 door Wrangler. Consumers are expecting more. I expect the next T4R to be much higher quality.
1engineer
Moderator
My Dad used to say "The older I get the better I was" and I think that holds true for most everything from vehicles to people and everything in between.
It was a HUGE gamble to go back to Jeep after the issues I had with my 02 and 06 JGCs. There was no other SUV out there that I liked and the 5th Gen did not live up to my expectations after having a 3rd/4th Gen. The new JGC has exceeded my expectations in every category. I still have no faith in the Chrysler Service Dept compared to Toyota but all it has needed was an oil change. I like to come around here every once in a while to see whats new or up and coming for the T4R.
jspagna1
New member
Hey that's what my father used to say as well. Wise men!
philsey
New member
Y2K - At the rate which you change vehicles, and the subsequent inherent losses, I should think several vehicles ago you'd have just bought a Lexus or LC.
-JD-
New member
I almost fell for Chrysler's Kool-aid too. I think the reality is that the Jeep is quality where the average consumer sees it, Toyota built quality into its drivetrain/frame/mechanical parts. Despite reading this entire thread I have seen very few things that are ACTUAL problems and not just whining. "my carpet came loose from the plastic", "my seats are wrinkly on the sides", "my engine makes a whirrrrr noise", "my doors sound tinny". None of which effects the vehicles ability to get you, your passengers, and your gear wherever you need to go whenever you need to be there consistently and reliably.
Real 'reliability' is something that won't be known for sure until years down the road. We can look at 'initial quality' and make some educated guesses, but we really dont know. One thing I do know is that 4runners have been consistently reliable for a long time and this new generation doesn't change too much of that recipe. The jeep on the other hand has a terrible history of reliability and is an entirely new design... That doesn't mean its going to be bad, but i feel you are taking more of a chance with the Jeep.
When you consider that the Jeep has a comparable price point it leaves me wondering if they have some miraculous parts suppliers that are able to do things dramatically cheaper than toyota is able to get them (for some unknown reason) or if they cheaped out on other areas that Toyota didn't.
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49runners
New member
Don't become one of those "things were made better back then" people. As another passionate 4runner owner, I empathize. Your complaints appear minor and I think your love for the runner is exacerbating it. I recall I had minor issues with my 3rd gen. Generally speaking, auto manufactures build better cars now in terms of safety, quality, pwr/efficiency, 4WD systems, etc. Even less JGC owners are stranded on the side of the road now, which leads me to believe that Toyota hasn't dropped the ball on quality, but maybe other companies are finally catching up to Toyota. Either way, I love my 5th gen and wouldn't trade it for any previous gen. Only complaint I have is that it can be cumbersome at times trying to leave DC to hit the outdoors in VA. I'm really tempted to run over smartcars. My 3rd gen width was more suitable for urban driving.
RonMAIDEN
Super Moderator
I'll eventually upgrade to a 5th gen but for now I'm very content with my 3rd gen and with only 175k on the odo and me adding only about 4000 miles a year to that total I figure it should still last me quite a while. 3rd gens were the point where price and quality met in the middle.
SOcalTRAIL
New member
After owning a clean little 2001 T4R for 3 years and giving it to my girlfriend who still drives it, never had a single issue with it and the odo. now clocks 179,000 miles. I notice a lot of things on that truck that seem "better built" and "more solid" than my 2011 Trail Edition, it actually really bummed me out at first but I got over it. I plan on driving the absolute snot out of this truck, taking it through hell and back, and really seeing what it is made of. So far so good, 27,000 miles and no issues other than my gripes with the ticks, creaks, rattles, and "tinny" sounding doors which was fixed with sound deadener.
Still, as others have mentioned, I honestly do not feel that there is a better SUV out there in the price range.
Still, as others have mentioned, I honestly do not feel that there is a better SUV out there in the price range.
toeheadskater
New member
This
Thai
Elite Member
Better built and solid are kinda hard to tell these days. Why? Ram a 3rd gen into a wall...then ram a 5th gen into a wall. Which would you rather be in? Not sure about you, but i will claw my way into a 5th gen and stay there if given a choice!!
How about a F150 ramming into your side? One has zero space between door and driver and zero protection from side intrusion (other than tinny steel bar per door)...the other is equipped with the latest safety equipment. Frame on 5th gen uses high tensile steel in some places...is high tensile steel even discovered 2001??
(JK, but you get my point.)Yes, the minor (inconsequential) part of the vehicle may be "cheaper" than the old days, but that is partly due to cost/budgeting (to offset other advances that cost money!) and fuel economy requirements (aka keep weight within certain limits). A heavy vehicle would suck gas...trust me i know! (My G500 had the footprint of a 3rd gen, but weighed as much as Land Cruiser 200 series! That thing's fuel needle would literally drop in front of my eyes in the city!) For me, i much rather have a well-designed vehicle that gets good fuel economy.
Of course, can anyone be fond of those rear drum brakes on the 3rd gen Limited 4wd that costs nearly $35k?? :crybaby: (I would think that $35k back then is like $40k+ now.)
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SOcalTRAIL
New member
Better built and solid are kinda hard to tell these days. Why? Ram a 3rd gen into a wall...then ram a 5th gen into a wall. Which would you rather be in? Not sure about you, but i will claw my way into a 5th gen and stay there if given a choice!!
How about a F150 ramming into your side? One has zero space between door and driver and zero protection from side intrusion (other than tinny steel bar per door)...the other is equipped with the latest safety equipment. Frame on 5th gen uses high tensile steel in some places...is high tensile steel even discovered 2001??
Yes, the minor (inconsequential) part of the vehicle may be "cheaper" than the old days, but that is partly due to cost/budgeting (to offset other advances that cost money!) and fuel economy requirements (aka keep weight within certain limits). A heavy vehicle would suck gas...trust me i know! (My G500 had the footprint of a 3rd gen, but weighed as much as Land Cruiser 200 series! That thing's fuel needle would literally drop in front of my eyes in the city!) For me, i much rather have a well-designed vehicle that gets good fuel economy.
Of course, can anyone be fond of those rear drum brakes on the 3rd gen Limited 4wd that costs nearly $35k?? :crybaby: (I would think that $35k back then is like $40k+ now.)
No argument about the safety differences, although you make it sound like your gonna die in the 3rd Gen 4Runner in an accident that would otherwise inflict minor bruises if you were in a 5th Gen... maybe, maybe not.... I have always felt plenty safe in my 3rd Gen... Do I feel safer in my 5th Gen? Yup... Why?? Because it is larger, heavier, and has a million airbags in places I never thought airbags were needed. But that is not the "better built and solid" issue that I was mentioning, I shoulda been a bit more specific. More like the horribly cheap feeling you get every time you close the door, it sounds like closing an empty Coor's Light can... The ticking, noises, rattles, whines, etc that are still non-existent in my 3rd Gen, have been with my 2011 since 5k miles. Cutting corners, cheaper plastics, more plastic, are the cause of this. I've had my truck stripped down to the sheet metal more times than I care to admit and am pretty familiar with how the quality and feel of the components compares to the older 4runners. True, very, very trivial complaints, but complaints none the less. When you spend 40K on a vehicle, little things like that bug you.
Aside from that, as I mentioned, I am happy with my truck and as I also mentioned I plan on driving it until it dies.... hope that is far, far down the road. I still believe it is the best vehicle in its class for its intended purpose.... its not a luxury grocery getter, its a very capable frame-on 4x4 that I would not trade for anything else.... (except on of those bad ass ICON 4x4 FJ44's FJ | Gallery | FJ-44 | ICON )
Cheers..
I'm outta this one...
1engineer
Moderator
Anyone want to know the price of quality? Go check out the ICON website lol. Here is a quick link explaining what they are and how much they cost http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/03/quick-drive-behind-the-wheel-of-the-120k-icon-fj45-pickup.html
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SOcalTRAIL
New member
I was curious and called a while back.... just the deposit for one of their FJ44's is roughly the cost of 2 brand new Trail Editions. :wow2:
Not to mention the 14 month wait...
Would looooooove to have one.
1engineer
Moderator
Me too. They are probably the best built no compromise vehicle around. Not built for mall crawling though.
-JD-
New member
Some of the 3rd gen guys are getting ridiculous. I owned one too. It had the same squeek from the rear seats that my 2nd 3rd and now 5th have, cheap plastics on the center console that scratched and scraped super easily, the window control switches tended to feel cheap and loose on that gen. They were still great trucks, but they weren't perfect, and their interiors were far from 'luxury'. The 3rd also still had some rust issues.
