Is QDR on the 4th Gen a myth?? (Quality, Dependability, Reliability)??

[wadle5]

I dont think we are blind to it. But like you showed, you have maintenance and basic upkeep, and after dumping the money into a vehicle to keep it running problem free for years you then went and bought another "unknown" vehicle. You can only expect to have surprise expenses up front, but if done correctly and in a timely manner these vehicles really do require low annual maint over the lifetime of the vehicle. If you think you will keep this one longer the only suggestion that I have considered would possibly be switching brakes the brakes out for 5th gen models as A)doesn't seem to be a problem with caliper freeze B)has already been done and documented and seems fair.

 

[FI460]

The reputation of "bullet proof" may be a little over played but I think the real comparison is against the competition. Look at the ford explorer for example.

You have timing belt issues, wheel bearing issues, and a bit of a reputation for transmission issues. Lots of the same mechanical problems. I think that's a product of these being bigger vehicles used like commuter cars. I think of most of these things as wear and tear items. You're going to have to replace shocks and axles at some point, regardless of what the vehicle is.

Now compare the features of the 4runner with the explorer. An Sr5 4runner beats a decked out explorer every day for comforts in my opinion, and comparing aftermarket support is pointless. If you want a cool rig that you can customize the 4runner is the way to go. If you just want a 4wd that will get you from point A to point B any of the SUV's will suffice and require similar maintenance I think.

 

[progress4m]

To OP: I have 2005 V8 SR5 4x4 with about the same mileage as yours (around 107K now);

I use it as my DD, long family\ski trips (including trails rides in NM and CO), go hunting (with off road that is normally associated with it), pulling the boat and various trailers (including TT);

Routine maintenance: engine oil (every 5K –synthetic), trany, transfer case and both differentials oils\fluid were changed at 60 K; Tires (twice, just because I wanted different ones), air filter cleaning;
Timing Belt, Water Pump, sparkplugs and antifreeze were changed around 90K (DIY- cost me around $250.00); two batteries;
Front rotors and pads were done around 100K- DIY- around $200.00-the original would probably work fine for another 20-30K, but I am OCD)
I have replaced the radio (with AVN5510) because I wanted GPS and DVD functions (still have original radio in the box and it is fully functional)

Non-routine (things that broke): hood support shocks- $50.00 (got weak last year), gas cap seal- $8.00- old one work fine, but felt weak, again I am OCD and was getting ready for a log trip; Windshield- $180.00 (rock on the highway), 3 or 4 sets of Wiper blades;

So in my case I have spent under $300 on it and if you remove cost of windshield and wiper blades from that, then it would be $58.00 on 11 years old truck with over 100K…

Truck never missed the beat, drives and feels like new; it has a great power and awesome road manner; it took my family through many high intensity snow blizzards (whiteouts), heat in Texas and Arizona and was very comfortable on numerous long trips to Colorado, Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, California and others (some of the trips were over 3.5K long)

IMHO: it will be hard to beat QDR of that truck… btw: this is my 3rd 4Runner, other two (2nd and 3rd gen) were the same in almost all aspects with only 3 exceptions: there were not as quite, powerful or comfortable as this one;

 

[Atlanta_man]

2005 2WD Limited - 142K mi, one owner

Warranty (+ extended)
Replace front rotors / pads (low mileage failure, vibration, shudder)
Replace exhaust system (for the stink)
Replace all 4 door lock actuators
Trimmed gas pedal (dealer outsmarted me on this in spite of my best effort)
Moonroof stuck, minor hardware to fix

Professional work
Windshield at 8 years (sandblast normal wear and tear)
Transmission flush
Cam belt, rad service, serpentine belt, water pump
Several sets of tires
Front Bilstein shocks (requiring me to replace stretched front wheel sensor wires)
A/C check - small amount of freon added

Do - it - myself
Unclog one side sunroof drain (wet pass side carpet after rain)
Front marker lights (a challenge at first)
Turn signal lights (bulb for limited's are not in the auto store book correctly)
Wiper Blades (cheap ones/annual)
Gas caps (2)
Spark Plugs
Regular moonroof lube
Replace upper and lower rad hoses
Now on 3rd replacement battery
Dashboard A/C light bulbs replaced
Extra loud horn
HIR headlights
Air filter/s
Mobil 1 Oil & filter: 22 times at least
Several front and rear brake pads
Brake fluid flush
Replace Front rotors
Module to fix code for the soon to be engine vacuum cleaner noise, cat warm-up blower problem
Replace both front wheel bearings (pre-made modules)
Blower motor NAPA (cheap-regret), two years later it still has brush noise
Spare tire maint (annual lower/lube)

I'm getting too old to get under cars anymore (68++yrs)
But what do do with my lifetime collection, garage full of car fix-it tools and stuff?

Needs:
dashboard - but may not qualify, it has an unsightly sticky spot but no cut/tear/crack
leather seat cover replace/repair - driver's seat is terrible looking
glove box lock that works (too expensive to fix properly)
tie rod ends
front end alignment (maybe... it's never had one so why start now?)

Plan to keep it another 2 or 3 years
TPMS still works
Only fear is the brake power unit failing suddenly to the tune of $3,500, that would put me in trade-in mode quick)
But no doubt I've saved more than $3,500 over the years by not having a different brand truck

 

[m85476585]

I think the reliability of 4th gens is better than most vehicles, but could still be better.

Some people that don't know much about cars still ask me if mine is new, or they are surprised when I tell them it's a 2007 because they think it only looks a few years old. A lot of things you never think about are well-engineered so we don't have to worry about them. Hoses seem to last a long time, the electronics generally last a long time, timing belts never break unexpectedly even at twice the service interval, etc.

Some things are not as reliable as they should be. A lot of common problems were already mentioned in this thread.

Some things are just overly complicated. There are electronic actuators for everything. For 4WD it's understandable since the electronics prevent you from shifting when you shouldn't, preventing major damage (and most people have no idea what they are doing). But the trunk closer doesn't seem necessary, and I think the automatic climate control is stupid (give me a lever that physically moves a damper), power seats are stupid, and sunroofs are unnecessary.

All the electronics seem to be modular, and there are random boxes and modules scattered around everywhere. There is a weird black box under the body near or in front of the spare tire. (maybe it's the black box?) There's a random silver module under the hood with no indication of what it does. There's a JBL amp and 110V inverter somewhere in the trunk. I used to have an 8th gen Civic, and everything seemed much more integrated with just a few boxes to do everything, though it was a more basic vehicle without as many "features" as my 4runner limited.

Part of the problem is we keep 4runners longer than a lot of other vehicles. For example, there don't seem to be many 8th gen Civics on the road any more (maybe it's just my area or maybe I don't notice them any more), and the forum seems to have mostly gone quiet. I don't know where they all went, but I suspect they are often totaled by even the slightest accident because the unibody frame is easily damaged. The entire side of the car including the rocker panel is one piece, so fixing minor damage to the rocker panel would be over $3000. I guess that is a downside of having everything integrated rather than modular.

 

[JEL]

I really love my truck, but it certainly hasn't been reliable or up to the quality standards my other Yotas, in fact it's been among the worse vehicles I've ever owned TBH.

In 86k:

-THREE rear diffs
-Some weird pulley noise that wasn't remedied with all new idlers, belt, tensioner, so I assume it's the A/C compressor and that'll be getting replaced soon.
-Flaky TPMS I had to spend some money on to fix
-Intermittent vent actuator problems I"ll be fixing with the A/C issue
-Massive water leak in the rear hatch
-Two sets of front calipers
-Intermittent harmonic drone when in 4hi on the freeway, seems like this issue is somewhat common among the 4runner/GX so I'm going to try and fit the front diff damper from the Lexus as mine exhibits the exact symptoms described in the TSB
-Other odds and ends.

My truck has been dealer maintained until I took it over, and the OCD maintenence has continued with me. I don't wheel it, it mostly resides on the highway on open roads, and it's bone stock. I use it to ski and camp/shoot/hunt but no wheeling.

Hopefully I can get a few issues sorted out for good and nothing else pops up. Still, I love my truck and don't intend to sell.

 

[pjbrownva]

I dont think we are blind to it. But like you showed, you have maintenance and basic upkeep, and after dumping the money into a vehicle to keep it running problem free for years you then went and bought another "unknown" vehicle. You can only expect to have surprise expenses up front, but if done correctly and in a timely manner these vehicles really do require low annual maint over the lifetime of the vehicle. If you think you will keep this one longer the only suggestion that I have considered would possibly be switching brakes the brakes out for 5th gen models as A)doesn't seem to be a problem with caliper freeze B)has already been done and documented and seems fair.

Good points and good advice. Thanks.

BTW, i only RELUCTANTLY upgraded my 4Runner. In Aug 2015, while launching my boat at the boat ramp, my transmission pawl gave out, and the trailer, truck and boat all rolled down the ramp and into the Potomac river!!!!

The boat floated, and the trailer is water proof, but my beloved 4x4 V6 SR5 4Runner was totaled. The water was 3 feet over the roof rack!!

After moping for several weeks, i decided that i liked my old 4th gen 4runner in white so much that i would get another one!

Thus, i replaced my totaled 2004 with a new-to-me 2008. While i was at it (and to boost my spirit after the shock of my loss) i upgraded by getting a 2008 limited v8 that was loaded... Sun roof, spoiler, tow package, factory nav, leather interior, nice after market rims, all of the factory limited goodies, and even DVD players for rear seat passengers built into the driver and passenger seat head rests. It also had what i call a "death switch". Which is a switch that can let you watch DVDs on the factory screen WHILE YOU ARE DRIVING. I will NEVER use that "feature" as its asking to kill or maim yourself or someone else on the road...

But that's the reason why i "upgraded".

I've nicknamed my old truck "Sunken Treasure", :laugh:
... and my new one is named "white knight". :laugh:

Here's a photo of the old 4R that i sank! This shot was taken about halfway through the recovery process (with apologies to those who've seen this before and read the thread about the whole incident).

.

 

[NinjaOne]

I've put ~$4.5k into mine in maintenance cost since I purchased in 2014 Granted, this could've been done for much cheaper if not done at the dealer. All the maintenance items but fluids were covered under a extended warranty that I purchased in 2014.


~$2.5k new control arms for worn bushings/ball joints
~$1200 new timing belt and water pump
~$300 CV Joint
~$75 new sway bar bushings, end link
+$500 in oil changes and fluid changes on everything but the tranny

Non-maintenance
~$350 '06 headlight conversion
~$800 suspension
+ sound system

Currently 99k on it



All that said, I'd say it is comparable to what you'd pay in maintenance for any other SUV/truck. I may be slightly blinded by love, but think that even if I were distance myself I would still call it reliable. I tend to baby it and some of those items could prob. have lasted much longer if I were to abuse/neglect it.

 

[V8Limited4wd]

I've had my runner since new and she has about 136k miles so far. No doubt the most reliable vehicle I have owned or driven. Still on original TB & WP (I know I have to get it done asap). The V8 is a gas guzzler but I'd rather have that than reliability issues.

Repairs under warranty:

Moonroof tsb
Sulfur smell tsb (ironically I believe this is what initially caused the manifold leak/ticking - dealer had only replaced one manifold/cat side since it's a pita to do both and the nuts might not have been torqued to spec)

Unexpected Repairs done myself:
Hood struts
Fog light harness

... And that's it. Well I did have the harmonic drone but that eventually went away on its own along with the manifold ticking noise - not sure how this fixed itself.

 

[wadle5]

Good points and good advice. Thanks.

BTW, i only RELUCTANTLY upgraded my 4Runner. In Aug 2015, while launching my boat at the boat ramp, my transmission pawl gave out, and the trailer, truck and boat all rolled down the ramp and into the Potomac river!!!!

The boat floated, and the trailer is water proof, but my beloved 4x4 V6 SR5 4Runner was totaled. The water was 3 feet over the roof rack!!

But that's the reason why i "upgraded".

I've nicknamed my old truck "Sunken Treasure", and my new one is named white knight (hehe!).

Here's a photo of the old one that i sank! The photo is of the old T4R about half way through the recovery process (with apologies to those who've seen this before and read the thread about the whole incident). View attachment 195074.

I do remember when you first posted that picture!! Sorry for your loss man, but glad to see the good that came out of it. As for bells and whistles. . .so you know what they say, the more options there are the more problems there could be.
But really yeah I think when purchasing a used car you have to expect to put some money into it for the first few years of general maint. wear and tear items. One thing some sellers are smart about is they have the means to switch out their car for a newer model thus not having to pay for the 100k mile service etc etc.
Sadly the 26k you put into this used Runner is still cheaper than what you could have driven off the lot on day one for 26k with financing etc.

Keep up the maintenance, and eventually input now will be pennies on the dollar to reliability and long term returns of the vehicle(if you keep it stock!)

 

[Ventil8]

I've owned mine for 11 years. I have 128,500 miles on it so far. I bought it new knowing that I'd keep it for a long time. I've done routine maintenance, brakes, pads, rotors. Both front wheel bearings/hub replaced last summer. I had one code pop up in 11 years, replaced the gas cap, code disappeared. My dash has a hairline crack but the dealer is replacing that after 11 years of ownership. WOW!I also replaced the 2 lift gate support cylinders after the lift gate was slow to open and close. My SUV runs great after all these years and I plan to drive it past 200,000 then maybe it'll be time for a new T4R

 

[RonJR]

It's too early for me to assess reliability on my '06, but I suspect that, because of the greater complexity of systems and gizmos, plus more weight saving plastic (bumpers, etc.), that it will not be quite as good as on previous 4runners. My '94 with 212K miles and my son's '97 with 270K miles have been ridiculously reliable. Outside of routine maintenance items (brake pads, tires, batteries, fluids, and timing belts), I think we have less than $3K in maintenance between the two vehicles in over 200,000 miles of driving. Based on what I read on this forum, I don't realistically expect the '06 to achieve that kind of reliability.

Edit: I should have added that, based on the records of all previous maintenance being done on my '06 at the local Toyota dealer, the only non-routine maintenance item in the first 125,000 miles was a failed immobilization ECU at 60,000 miles, replaced under warranty. So it's been very well-behaved so far.

 

[MSRP.]

I'll echo a few points about reliability vs other competitors.
All around package, for the price of a used 4th gen, (I got my 2003 v8 @6,000 bagged milk dollars), capability, and reliability, I don't think I can be beaten short of a Land Cruiser.

My heap is 160k miles in:
- rear liftgate regulator broke when a friend slammed my liftgate down with the window all the way down (lots of rust on the support arm)
- driver's leather is tearing at the sides from a big ole boy previous owner
- factory XREAS could be replaced by next year
- driveline clunk

That's it.

I don't think there are many (actually, no other) sub 10,000$ cars/trucks that hold up as well as the 4R after 150,000 miles (250km). Everyone I drive/let drive the truck are astonished at how well it drives, and is presented after a good interior detail. I bought this truck for the drivetrain. With a set of eventual Ko2's, I will be A-OK if I'm never stranded, and that whatever issues I come across, none will leave me stranded and get me home to troubleshoot/ignore.

I am going to test drive a 400,000km (250k miles) Lexus ls430 this weekend, and I'm well prepared to be shocked.

 

[zimdba]

After 12 years and 127K miles, I've had only 3 things go wrong that I wouldn't consider normal maintenance:

• Driver's side front caliper
• Passenger side front caliper
• Passenger side CV boot clamp

That's it. Everything else I'd consider to be normal maintenance (brakes, tires, timing chain/water pump) or an unnecessary upgrade that I chose to do. Heck, I think I've done more repairs on my BMW than I have on the 4Runner, and I've only put 17,000 miles on it (44K total).

 

[Binjinh]

Name any other vehicle that doesn't have its own quirks and maintenance problems. As you make a list, you'll find the 4Runner is a good compromise of luxury features and reliability.

 

[pjbrownva]

I do remember when you first posted that picture!! Sorry for your loss man, but glad to see the good that came out of it.

Thanks. I like the new 4Runner even better. :clap2:

You have to expect to put some money into it for the first few years of general maint. wear and tear items. ...
Sadly the 26k you put into this used Runner is still cheaper than what you could have driven off the lot on day one for 26k with financing etc.

How true. This was in the glove box of my 2008 when I bought it...

So $26K, all in, isn't too bad... but I guess if I had learned more about the suspensions and shopped more carefully, I could of had a nice, upgraded truck from a private seller for about $18K - $20K all in.

I was impressed by the overall appearance of the 4R i bought, including the enginge bay

and the under carriage.

Keep up the maintenance, and eventually input now will be pennies on the dollar to reliability and long term returns of the vehicle(if you keep it stock!)

I plan to keep up the maintenance, and keep my mods fairly modest. Next on my list is to renew ALL of the fluids. I also bought new NGK spark plugs and bosch wires (don't forget to use dielectric grease when installing!), and I've already upgraded the factory amp & speakers (but kept the in dash navigation head unit) by using one of these gizmos...

(Stereo upgrades not included in my pricing numbers... that's clearly optional and extra, so I didn't even count it in my total$)

Name any other vehicle that doesn't have its own quirks and maintenance problems. As you make a list, you'll find the 4Runner is a good compromise of luxury features and reliability.

Valid points [MENTION=123097]Binjinh[/MENTION] .

It made me think of this which was recently linked to in a post about used 5th gens:




I guess there's a good reason for the #2 rating (not to mention that the Tacoma took #1).


As long as I don't KEEP getting hit with these types of big bills, I'll be happy. I'm willing to accept that a lot of the money I just spent was for reconditioning the new-to-me 8 yr old truck. I guess part of it was my fault for not having the vehicle carefully checked before I bought it... on the other hand, it might not have made a difference.

These trucks sell at a premium, and the one I got is loaded, and was gorgeous inside, outside, and underneath. The mechanical issues have (hopefully) all been addressed, and now I should be good to go. (Finger's crossed!).

 

[Binjinh]

I guess there's a good reason for the #2 rating (not to mention that the Tacoma took #1).


As long as I don't KEEP getting hit with these types of big bills, I'll be happy. I'm willing to accept that a lot of the money I just spent was for reconditioning the new-to-me 8 yr old truck. I guess part of it was my fault for not having the vehicle carefully checked before I bought it... on the other hand, it might not have made a difference.

These trucks sell at a premium, and the one I got is loaded, and was gorgeous inside, outside, and underneath. The mechanical issues have (hopefully) all been addressed, and now I should be good to go. (Finger's crossed!).

Like I said, no vehicle is perfect. It goes without saying that the 4.0L Cherokees are really reliable vehicles, but they do have a cheap interior, at around 100k all the weather stripping goes to shit, they are more prone to rust than 4runners, and the most annoying issue of all is the shitty door boot connections that randomly break.

My saying has always been, "If you take care of your vehicles it will take care of you"

 

[Spiderjhn]

Fantastic forum. I bought an 04 limited v6 172k from my son in Nov 15. He bought Dec 09 and put 100k on it in those years. Records of all services in glove box. Original owner had full service at 60k, all fluids changed and plugs. My son put in gas and oil changed at 5k,nothing else done except AC charged. Since Nov I've put in plugs and an O2 sensor for CEL. Brakes on the front with both calipers since both were frozen. Went back with correct calipers with lifetime warranty from Advance Auto. Left wheel bearing was bad and replaced with Moog bearing. Local shop pressed hub flange in new bearing but left off the new outer seal! I'll run it till it goes bad and will replace it with complete assembly from a vender on the forum.
The passenger side servo on the AC damper was stuck but I lubed the linkage and got it freed up. Has been working fine.
So after being long winded I would say that after 180k this 04 limited has given great sevice. I think the caliper issues are from a bad design. The head gasket issues on the v6 I hope are a bit over stated and don't show up on mine. Again this is a great forum.
P.s.
Dash replacement on order.

 

[arisyn]

As a test you could go buy an xterra or a Jeep with the same amount of miles and report on the maintenance cost difference

 

[Bluesky 07]

I can speak to half of this suggestion:

As a test you could go buy an Exterra or a Jeep with the same amount of miles and report on the maintenance cost difference

I bought a 2002 Xterra SE new for $19,400. List was $23K+ but it was a 5-speed RWD and the last '02 on the lot when the new ones came out. I drove it for almost 12 years and 151K miles and had two instances of non-routine repairs: a leaky A/C hose (known issue on the X) and the ABS module. Neither was an expensive fix. I kept up the maintenance, had the timing belt done at the scheduled time and so on. It did develop a small leak from the rear main seal toward the end. I sold it in November 2014 for $3700 and bought my '07 4R Sport 4WD for, ironically, the same amount, $19K.

The Xterra was reliable, easy to work on, and the Xterra Owner's Club forum was as great a resource as this one is. For example, I got rear-ended and the other driver's insurance paid $1600. I got a body shop to straighten the frame extensions that were bent down by the force on the hitch, sourced a new hitch and a salvaged OEM rear bumper (both off Amazon of all places), scoped out some threads on the forum, and installed the replacement parts myself. Looked new for under $700.

I loved my Xterra but with all that said, if I had known in 2002 what I know after almost 18 months and 16K miles of owning a 4Runner, I would have bought the best used 4WD 4Runner I could find for that $19K because there's no comparison whatsoever in terms of the T4R's superiority in comfort, ride quality, interior and exterior finishes, and so on.

The OP's experience sucks but IMO he is in that small, unfortunate minority that sometimes gets a bad example of a great vehicle.

BTW, the XOC gained a reputation for being particularly (and often unnecessarily IMO) hard on newbs so one of the members made what I think is a hilarious meme:

Here's the old girl doing landscaping duty. Happy to say that nursery was very close to the house.