LED's driving me NUTS!!

[nor_cal51501]

So a little while back I started my LED swap on my car. I began with the A/C controls, rear window switch, defroster and ECT switch. Long story short, my tail fuse kept blowing so after dicking around with it for a while and ~10 fuses later I figured out that it would blow whenever I put the LED's in the Rear window/ECT/defroster. Now theres some other randomness happening also. I have since put the stock bulbs in and now they sometimes work…Im at a loss as to the issue here. Anyone have any ideas or experienced this themselves? For reference, I have a 2001 T4R Sport 4x4. Thanks for the help T4R gurus.

 

[MStudt]

So a little while back I started my LED swap on my car. I began with the A/C controls, rear window switch, defroster and ECT switch. Long story short, my tail fuse kept blowing so after dicking around with it for a while and ~10 fuses later I figured out that it would blow whenever I put the LED's in the Rear window/ECT/defroster. Now theres some other randomness happening also. I have since put the stock bulbs in and now they sometimes work…Im at a loss as to the issue here. Anyone have any ideas or experienced this themselves? For reference, I have a 2001 T4R Sport 4x4. Thanks for the help T4R gurus.

Based on what you're saying it sounds like a short. When your fuses blew for the bulbs, were the controls still working?

 

[JWaldz]

It does sound like a short. However, if you have the Digital AC control unit it's pretty famous for buggin' out, especially with LED's. I remember when mine started freaking out the rear window, ECT & defroster buttons weren't far behind.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Do you have automatic climate control, or old school? And which fuse is blowing? If you have the time and patience, we can figure this out.

:couch2:

 

[jgue467]

so w/leds just stick to overhead/exterior lites?

to avoid 'dash' issues? so far I've only replaced the overhead/map/trunk lites, the ones that tend to be on when engine is off....

 

[nor_cal51501]

Based on what you're saying it sounds like a short. When your fuses blew for the bulbs, were the controls still working?

I actually don't remember.

It does sound like a short. However, if you have the Digital AC control unit it's pretty famous for buggin' out, especially with LED's. I remember when mine started freaking out the rear window, ECT & defroster buttons weren't far behind.

Wish I had the digital controls, just a normal SR5 here.

Do you have automatic climate control, or old school? And which fuse is blowing? If you have the time and patience, we can figure this out.
:couch2:

I have the old school 2001 SR5 style. The 10amp tail fuse in the engine fuse box blows(no dash lights no tail lights). Thanks for the help guys, it's making me go crazy.

 

[IBallEngineer]

:couch2:

I have the old school 2001 SR5 style. The 10amp tail fuse in the engine fuse box blows(no dash lights no tail lights). Thanks for the help guys, it's making me go crazy.

OK, this is a start. I have some question for clarification though.

1. Does the fuse still blow with NON-led bulbs?

2. When you say it sometimes works? The bulbs, or not blowing the fuse?

3. You say bulbs, but he EWD only shows one illumination bulb in the center cluster switch, yours may be different, just want to know how many bulbs we are dealing with.

The process off elimination will determine why you are blowing fuses. We need to back probe connecter C23 on the Center Cluster Switch(CCS) terminal 5(green wire) to see if it is grounded. Use a paper clip and stick it in the back of the connector, while it is still connected to the switch, and check continuity to ground.

:couch2:

 

[nor_cal51501]

:couch2:



OK, this is a start. I have some question for clarification though.



1. Does the fuse still blow with NON-led bulbs?



2. When you say it sometimes works? The bulbs, or not blowing the fuse?



3. You say bulbs, but he EWD only shows one illumination bulb in the center cluster switch, yours may be different, just want to know how many bulbs we are dealing with.



The process off elimination will determine why you are blowing fuses. We need to back probe connecter C23 on the Center Cluster Switch(CCS) terminal 5(green wire) to see if it is grounded. Use a paper clip and stick it in the back of the connector, while it is still connected to the switch, and check continuity to ground.



:couch2:

1. The fuse does not blow with normal bulbs, no.



2. Both. Initially the bulbs worked, then they didn't then they did. Then they blew the tail fuse and the rheostat. Here's a pic of the blown rheostat I had to replace.

(All happened with the LEDs not normal bulbs) Now I tried one last time to do the LEDs and they don't function at all again. I put the stock bulbs back in and replaced the fuse once again and now they don't function at all... I'm fairly sure the rheostat blew again,(somewhat differently though) reason I say this is that it doesn't dim at all anymore. It's either lights on or lights off(via the normal on off toggle not dimmer). Rotating the dimmer doesn't produce any effect anymore. Previously when it blew the dash lights(all) were entirely inop.



3. In my 01 SR5 there are two bulbs for the area I'm talking about. The ECT/Rear defroster share one bulb and the rear window switch has it's own bulb.

I'm a novice with the multimeter, so how would I determine ground continuity with it? Also, thanks again for your help.

 

[IBallEngineer]

1.


I'm a novice with the multimeter, so how would I determine ground continuity with it? Also, thanks again for your help.

OK, so with the meter set to check Ohms, that is the Omega sign usually measured in 20 to 200K. Any scale will work. With one lead connected to your back probe and the other connected to a known ground. If the reading is close to zero, that circuit is grounded. If the numbers stay high, it is OK.

The Rheostat is burning up because the LED's have little or no impedance, so they almost act as if you are running power directly to the ground. But I don't understand why the other bulbs aren't doing the same thing. We'll get there, first let's make sure the circuit is good.

By the way, ALL of the dash illumination circuits ground through the Rheostat.

 

[nor_cal51501]

[MENTION=102597]IBallEngineer[/MENTION], I don't have a EWD so I'm not sure which connector is the C23. Here's what I'm looking at for my connectors behind my center console. The orange connector is the passenger airbag, the white is the rear window/ect/rear defroster, the small black is the clock and the large black is the hazard combo.

 

[IBallEngineer]

C23 is a 10 pin connector with 2 rows of 5 openings. It should be the one in the lower right of your picture. T5 should be a green wire.

:couch2:

 

[nor_cal51501]

C23 is a 10 pin connector with 2 rows of 5 openings. It should be the one in the lower right of your picture. T5 should be a green wire.

:couch2:

Ok, so I just tested it and it reads 0.0's across the board. This good or bad?

 

[IBallEngineer]

Ok, so I just tested it and it reads 0.0's across the board. This good or bad?

Right, bad. What bulb do you have in there? The regular bulb should not give you zeros. Can you pull the bulb and retest?

 

[nor_cal51501]

Right, bad. What bulb do you have in there? The regular bulb should not give you zeros. Can you pull the bulb and retest?

Ya, I'll get that tomorrow. Currently I think the non LEDs are in there. I bought the LEDs from autolumination.com. Pretty sure that are total POS LEDs.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Just for reference I measured a 194 bulb, it showed 6.5 Ohms. I'm assuming that is what we are dealing with. A 74 would probably read higher. The actual number is irrelevant, what matters is that it isn't shorted. When you pull the bulb, check that there isn't anything wrong with the socket, or the wire on the bulb is not crossed over to the other side.

opcorn:

 

[nor_cal51501]

Ok [MENTION=102597]IBallEngineer[/MENTION], with both the bulbs removed the green wire now read 6.3ohms. I also checked the bulbs and it seems that the bulb that illuminates the rear window switch is now blown and the bulb that illuminates the ect/defroster is working(not lit up, just in working order).

 

[IBallEngineer]

Seems weird that you are getting that reading with the bulbs removed. It should be open to ground with the bulbs removed. Are there any other bulbs? And did you look at the bulb sockets to be sure there isn't a problem there?

If you don't find other bulbs and there is no visible problem, put to good bulbs in there and re test!

:couch2:

 

[nor_cal51501]

Alright [MENTION=102597]IBallEngineer[/MENTION] pulled the bulbs and cleaned the contacts, and re installed. Don't have a replacement bulb on hand, but now that I put them back in I'm getting a 5.8 ohm reading WITH them installed.(one blown bulb one good bulb)

Also, there are only two bulbs on that plug. Here's a better idea for you to look at so you know what I'm working with.
Back of center cluster with C23 harness:

Front of cluster circuit board for C23 harness:

 

[IBallEngineer]

Beautiful, nice pictures too. Really helps the flow to know what you are looking at. So right now the "good" bulb should work, does it? Also try swapping the bulbs just to make sure everything is working as it should.

Once you get two good bulbs, nothing should change.

I think you DID get some bad bulbs from the LED place.

 

[nor_cal51501]

[MENTION=102597]IBallEngineer[/MENTION], currently the good bulb doesn't work in either locations when I swap it. I'll head to the dealer real quick and get a new set of bulbs and see what the result brings. Also, any idea why my rheostat doesn't function anymore? Last time it went out my ground circuit must have shorted because all the dash lights went with it. This time they all work, minus the trouble zone, but no dimming function anymore. Damn those autolumination people!!