less car for more money

offroadingatc said:
This thread is awesome!

My plans for today include visiting (insert random message board here) and complaining about how terrible (insert random message boards subject here) is. I plan to be shocked when everyone doesn't agree with me.

If you want to talk about how much better JGC is than a 4Runner, you may get a better reception on Jeep Forum - Jeep Enthusiast Network
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Do it on some ultra-typical fanboy Ford or Dodge website full of uneducated toothless rednecks.
 
smiley-rolleyes008.gif

Oh man. You guys are a trip
 
FlyNavy said:
Don't you have a TE on order? When are you going to drink the Kool-Aid and get onboard with all of this? :)
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Still working out some details, and planning on taking it to a shop and getting the mods done before we buy it, so everything is wrapped up in a deal with the dealer, and no risk of doing a mod after we buy it and it invalidating the warranty... But we will have one soon enough! Still have yet to sit in a Trail though, but I'm taking people's word on it.
 
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Plenty of dealers will invalidate the warranty if they feel what damage happened to your vehicle was because of a mod you added to it after you purchased it
 
KCcarguy said:
My point was that a car being "American" means a lot of different things to different people. Many of the Big Three's products are American in name only......or at least no more american in regards to parts content/ labor than Toyotas and Hondas. There are some great, quality vehicles being built by American workers....it's all about QC/ parts standards.
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On the buy America thing, the cars may be built here, but all the profit from manufacture flows back to where the parent company is listed (i.e. the stock exchange). Until Toyota and BMW are listed on the NASDAQ, most of the dollars spent on US built cars will end up in Japan or Germany.

Regardless, 4Runners are built in Japan at the Tahara plant on the same line as the Lexus GX and Land Cruiser Prado. You can’t get more Japanese than that, its like watching a Kurosawa film in a coffin hotel while eating noodles and composing a Haiku on an automated toilet :wink2:.

I have no problem with that, they just build a better mousetrap IMHO, and what could be more American than the invisible hand?
 
Bearshrimp said:
On the buy America thing, the cars may be built here, but all the profit from manufacture flows back to where the parent company is listed (i.e. the stock exchange). Until Toyota and BMW are listed on the NASDAQ, most of the dollars spent on US built cars will end up in Japan or Germany.

Regardless, 4Runners are built in Japan at the Tahara plant on the same line as the Lexus GX and Land Cruiser Prado. You can’t get more Japanese than that, its like watching a Kurosawa film in a coffin hotel while eating noodles and composing a Haiku on an automated toilet :wink2:.

I have no problem with that, they just build a better mousetrap IMHO, and what could be more American than the invisible hand?
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This is a pretty accurate representation of what happen IMO, however there are a couple things I would add.

- Consider that defining 'profits' as only corporate and shareholder from an economic standpoint is possibly misguided. the economy profits a ton when a large group of individuals are given good paying jobs, and hundreds of support companies get good contracts... so built in America does matter.

-While I dont want to jump on the 'bailout' bandwagon to hard here, lets not forget that foreign owned = not our problem. As far as I know both Toyota and Honda were bailed out multiple times by the Japanese, similar to how we bailed out GM, so its a double edged sword.
 
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offroadingatc said:
- Consider that defining 'profits' as only corporate and shareholder from an economic standpoint is possibly misguided. the economy profits a ton when a large group of individuals are given good paying jobs, and hundreds of support companies get good contracts... so built in America does matter.
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Yes that's true; it’s a safe bet that the US/CAN economy benefits more from having cars built here than it does if they are built over seas (what about Mexico?). I don’t have the numbers handy but as a rule of thumb the production cost of a durable good is about 10-15% of the total cost. So if you buy an import built in the US 10-15% of the value is going into US worker’s pockets rather than 0% for a vehicle built by a foreign listed company overseas.

Overall, if one buys based on national origin buying a US built Toyota is better than buying a Japanese Toyota but not as good as buying a Mexican Ford or even a Chinese built Buick (just wait for that one) none of them will have the same positive impact on the US economy as buying a Chevrolet built in Detroit.

But, remember FIAT now owns a big stake in Chrysler, so even if you buy a US made Jeep a significant portion of the purchase flows back to Italy :shrug:.
 
dawudih said:
I paid $25,200 in 04 for a new 2wd sport model & regretfully sold it in 07. I went to a toyota dealership today & was disapointed with the new ones compared to my old one. For example:
Why do the new 4runners have antenna's sticking up?
Why does the interior seem cheap?
What's all that fake chrome garbage/trim?
They are much more expensive as well. I was really disapointed because I've always owned one. I currently drive a 2000 model as a daily driver & love the thing. Maybe I'll look at the Grand Cherokee with the new Pentax engine. Has anyone else noticed this decline in value/quality. :cry:
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Sorry if I offend anyone with this - but who in the phuck buys a 2wd 4Runner in the first place??

I've just recently seen several of the new Prius Wagons - maybe you would be better suited with one of those:)
 
...well we do seem to have a problem with the headlights hazing on the 5th Gen. If ultra clear headlights are really important to you, I would definitely go the JGC route. That should solve it fella's. :lmao:
 
Antman said:
...well we do seem to have a problem with the headlights hazing on the 5th Gen. If ultra clear headlights are really important to you, I would definitely go the JGC route. That should solve it fella's. :lmao:
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The headlight covering on my Cruiser is glass. They will never ever haze.
 
Okay, I'm going to bite - but only because it's finals week and I have a test in two hours.

I had a 1999 JGC, with the 4.7 blah blah. Every time I went home from college I would have to take it in and have a CV boot replace, airbag light, CD changer and on and on and on. We bought it with 40,000miles as my first car and it was trouble from then on. Redford, (I call it that even though it was a red Jeep) was a beast in the snow and I never had to dig myself out - but I couldn't help but notice that it would literally tear the drive-train to bits if I was in a parking garage. So after a reputation like that - I flat out refuse to look at a Jeep again, cool ads or not.

I feel like the 4Runner when it comes down to owning a car for another 10 years is going to have a low cost of operation for the last five and it'll balance out... But maybe I'm just deluded because I'm about to buy one. Who knows.

Edit: 4.7L!
 
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