Lets address the "elephant"/ weight in the room!

[jrandom]

The LC200 can only carry 45 pounds more than 4runner.

one more piece of luggage! oh man, some luxury there but man that is just comical

 

[Tuco S.]

I've ran into this recently with an added RTT and I figured I was 500-600 over, but came in at 6250lbs. Honestly was shocked. I suspect some of the bigger builds that have full rear bumpers and such are 6500-6800lbs total.

I expected it to be slow, and honestly I wasn't worried about weight that much, but at 6250lbs with 34s on...

I average 13mpg, with around 200 miles per gas tank. It's highly impractical and has me rethinking weight.

Is it 13 mpg after correcting for larger diameter tires? Your Yokos are rated at 610 revs/mile vs. 656-657 revs/mile on oem tires. Actual mileage may be closer to 14 mpg but either way that stinks. Is the RTT on full time? If so that might be the biggest issue (drag).

 

[TRD PANTHER]

Here's mine on the way to the mall with Maxtrax, recovery gear, snatch cables, recovery hooks, and the Spaten up front on the side. Used up all the gas in the Rotopax.

 

[TheWraith]

I've ran into this recently with an added RTT and I figured I was 500-600 over, but came in at 6250lbs. Honestly was shocked. I suspect some of the bigger builds that have full rear bumpers and such are 6500-6800lbs total.

I expected it to be slow, and honestly I wasn't worried about weight that much, but at 6250lbs with 34s on...

I average 13mpg, with around 200 miles per gas tank. It's highly impractical and has me rethinking weight.

Damn I'm 10lbs lighter than you unloaded...
And I think I'm pretty heavy.
I'm at 6240lbs

But with my family of 6 we're at 7100lbs; with camping gear I'm probably closer to 7500lbs.

But I have mods in brakes pads, stainless steel brake lines, 700lbs springs in the front, 749v Dobinsons in the back, upgraded radiator and a trans cooler.

I monitor my trans and coolant temps on road and off. Climbing any kind of incline my trans temps rise. And if I'm loaded with the family. I get up to 210 degrees quickly... this is why I drive slow on 4lo off roading. But the upgraded radiator... coolant temps are rock solid at 186degrees and hardly fluctuates.

 

[Gamma Ray]

I've given thought to this as well. While I'll probably get skid plates at some point, I doubt I'll be running them all the time. I've thought about removing the stock puny skids and doing a more full underbody plastic skid for on the road. It theoretically would be lighter, and it might even help with aero for a bit. I'll probably never take off my heavy duty sliders, though :first:

Part of my apprehension in getting a winch and the necessary conventional winch mounting gear is that I'd rather not pay the weight penalty all the time for it. I see LFD, or maybe it was Rago, has something that doesn't fully convert your front bumper but rather goes behind the bumper and you put in a small hole into it. There are also hitch winch mounts, but that would mean I'd only be able to winch backwards. I also learned that come alongs and hi-lift jack winch adapters exist a couple days ago, so maybe I'll skip the winch entirely.

I would like a kickass rear bumper with all kinds of equipment mounting options, but I don't know.

 

[ahtoxa11]

Here's mine on the way to the mall with Maxtrax, recovery gear, snatch cables, recovery hooks, and the Spaten up front on the side. Used up all the gas in the Rotopax.

Given your username, a Panther would be more appropriate than a Tiger II. :lmao:

But back to original topic.

Weight is a big consideration for me as well. Like others have said, the vehicle was designed to operate under certain conditions, and its own weight is a big part of that. The vehicle works as a system of all parts, and when you're changing one part and it's characteristics, you're affecting others. The immediate things that most people consider are acceleration, fuel economy and braking.

But I think there's more to it. Mass, rotating mass, inertia and load bearing all has to be considered, I think. Stressed parts such as axles, wheel bearings, suspension mounts and linkages, they all get stressed under heavier weight and they all have a working load limit. I'm sure there is plenty of safety margin built into the vehicle, but I'm also sure that there are impacts none the less, even if they don't mean immediate breakage of a component.

I'm on 33s with sliders and skid plates, but not front/rear bumpers. As far as armor goes, I don't think I'll be adding more weight -- maybe a front bumper in the future because a winch would give me a good safety margin if I'm out alone, but otherwise I don't want to add more. My sliders are steel but skids are aluminum, specifically to save weight.

 

[Gecko]

Sort of related, sort of not, but the OP makes a great point that probably not many folks think about.

No judgement at the folks who use their 4Runners for camping and cross country/terrain trips, but I think it's important to consider how much "Overland" culture has impacted these types of decisions and then the following "over modifying" process that occurs. Instagram and social media only amplify the feeling and the impact of wanting your car to look a certain way, and then being seen.

Let's be honest: Almost all of us still drive 90%+ on paved roads, to grocery stores, Target and wherever else. Probably safe to say that most of us drive 95-98% on paved roads. Is lift, UCAs, mud terrain tires, auxiliary battery, fuel tanks, full skids, aluminum front and rear bumpers, storage systems, new springs for the added weight, roof rack, hood mounted recovery boards... etc... still really worth it for 2-5% of your off road time?

I just see a lot of people building up a for an instragram aesthetic that they have no idea how to use, and not thinking about the penalty with things like weight, accident avoidance, MPG, rollover risk, etc.

Build your truck up how you like. Support Toyota. Support the aftermarket. But people getting caught up in "Overland" culture is a real thing.

Then again, I guess tuner culture has always been there... SUVs are just the hot ticket item right now.

 

[patkelly4370]

How convenient. I weighed my 17 SR5 last week.
I'm an OTR truck driver and we have a scale at our yard. Also convenient, both axles fit on the scale at the same time.
In it's current everyday form it was approximately 5,500lbs. Front/rear ratio was about equal.
Spacer lift, aftermarket wheels, 285s, rock sliders (50 lbs more than original nerf/steps), and recovery gear (straps, shackles, etc). Full fuel tank.
Also, my underheight (not overweight) rear was in the seat.
I'll weigh again tomorrow (my Monday) and give numbers.


Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Inv4drZm]

I want to know what are you thoughts are. :rockon:

I've got a heavy V8, heavier rear axle, all the steel armor, and 37" tires.

It still drives down the road and can hit 100, just keep in mind your braking distance is limited.

I don't see the problem.

 

[firegod33r]

Sort of related, sort of not, but the OP makes a great point that probably not many folks think about.

No judgement at the folks who use their 4Runners for camping and cross country/terrain trips, but I think it's important to consider how much "Overland" culture has impacted these types of decisions and then the following "over modifying" process that occurs. Instagram and social media only amplify the feeling and the impact of wanting your car to look a certain way, and then being seen.

Let's be honest: Almost all of us still drive 90%+ on paved roads, to grocery stores, Target and wherever else. Probably safe to say that most of us drive 95-98% on paved roads. Is lift, UCAs, mud terrain tires, auxiliary battery, fuel tanks, full skids, aluminum front and rear bumpers, storage systems, new springs for the added weight, roof rack, hood mounted recovery boards... etc... still really worth it for 2-5% of your off road time?

I just see a lot of people building up a for an instragram aesthetic that they have no idea how to use, and not thinking about the penalty with things like weight, accident avoidance, MPG, rollover risk, etc.

Build your truck up how you like. Support Toyota. Support the aftermarket. But people getting caught up in "Overland" culture is a real thing.

Then again, I guess tuner culture has always been there... SUVs are just the hot ticket item right now.

Right on man and that was my point exactly. I saw myself getting sucked into the “overland” hype as you mentioned and had to take a step back and realize that ultimately the direction I was headed was just too reckless for me.


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[Cheers!]

I’m definitely not pleased with the weight.

I get pwned by all the Porsche Cayennes driving through the mountain passes. It is sad...

I also chew through brake pads like crazy as I like to late apex the turns and trail brake.

My 4Runner also burns more gasoline than my buddies raptor that is easily 2x faster in all categories (0-60, 1/4mile etc). Also I find driving over 95mph kinda sketch in my 4Runner. On center steering is super vague, and cross wind susceptibility is horrible.

However, I’ve owned my 5th gen for 7 years now. All I have done is oil changes, grease the drive shafts, 3 brake jobs, and 2 recalls (1 airbag and waiting on the fuel pump).

My friends raptor on the other hand... whenever he goes in for an oil change he gets a loaner so he can get issues sorted under the Ford extended warranty.

I don’t know anyone who owns a Cayenne, but I can't see how that is trouble free considering how bad it depreciates.

 

[Gamma Ray]

Is lift, UCAs, mud terrain tires, auxiliary battery, fuel tanks, full skids, aluminum front and rear bumpers, storage systems, new springs for the added weight, roof rack, hood mounted recovery boards... etc... still really worth it for 2-5% of your off road time?

That's a good question, and one that I'm considering the answers to as a relative newbie to this sort of stuff. I'm happy to see that there are some alternatives out there. Come alongs instead of winches. Hitch winch mounts instead of winches that are semi-permanently mounted in front. Rigd Ultraswing instead of a semi-permanent rear bumper. Heck, I'm going to be getting a Rago molle panel shelf tomorrow, and I'm not 100% sure if I'm going to leave it fully installed all the time :lmao:

I know I just don't need all the weight all the time. I do daily drive this thing. While some things have gone on and will stay on, such as my molle panels and front recovery points, I don't need everything all the time. I'm actually seriously considering a Rigd Ultraswing because I would like to carry some additional gear in the back when I finally do an outing but not all the time. I really want to get some jerry cans back there, that's for sure. I'll probably stick a hi-lift jack back there, too. I'm happy with the placement of my spare tire, so I probably won't stick one back there, but you never know. I do know that I won't be carrying jerry cans and a hi-lift all the time. That much is for certain.

I have always maintained that I didn't get my 4Runner to impress anyone. I heard about when people went out for their smoke break at work right before the pandemic hit that they were ogling my new truck, but that's not why I got it. Having said that, it is a really good truck, and I've discovered a great enthusiast community through it that I'm happy to be a part of, even if it's in a small way. I get to have both one of the most dependable and capable forms of transportation on the road today as well as have some fun with it in my way. Even if it means that most of the time I just take a little RC 4Runner in the trunk out places for miniature off road fun while using some equipment mounted on the molle panels to clean off my battery before putting it away, my real 4Runner has helped inspire me to get off my butt and try new things, both on the truck itself and things that are truck-adjacent.

Oh, and hood mounted recovery boards. While I do reeeeeeeealy want to get myself a bunch of Maxtrax, LFD crossbars, and the Maxtrax mounting hardware that the LFD crossbars are compatible with, these things are definitely going to be temporarily mounted things for when I go on an outing. They're certainly not staying on all the time, not even empty crossbars. In fact, my 4Runner came with Toyota crossbars, and I've got to take them off before the next time it snows. I never use them, and cleaning off snow from the roof is more annoying with them in the way. But while I wouldn't be keeping that Maxtrax/LFD setup up there all the time, I still think it's worth the money for the utility in recovery and the convenience in having a place to put the boards.

 

[sn_85]

I’m definitely not pleased with the weight.

I get pwned by all the Porsche Cayennes driving through the mountain passes. It is sad...

I don’t know anyone who owns a Cayenne, but I can't see how that is trouble free considering how bad it depreciates.

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I don't see anything wrong with a Porsche Cayenne burning by you on a mountain pass. IMO those things were made exactly for mountain passes. It has a ridiculous amount of power. Buddy of mine had one and it was smooth and powerful. Also I think CR did a survey lately that showed Porsche being the #2 most reliable brand. #1 was Lexus.

I've seen a few YT videos of them going off-road and I think they're more capable than one would expect. I saw a lifted Cayenne the other day and did not hate it. Actually, it was kind of badass.

 

[sn_85]

I'm actually pretty impressed with my MPG with my build after this last trip (which I'm still on). Details are in my sig but she's full armored up. So I'm in the process of a move from AL and ID. Because the movers won't arrive right away we are hauling a few extra things that we need right away. So the rear cargo area is fully loaded up and we also have a thule box on the roof to carry some ski gear so that we can hit up some mountains in CO and UT along the way. We have two medium size dogs and the rear cargo area is filled up with luggage and stuff. I guess I'm carrying at least an additional 300-400lbs in additional gear that I don't typically carry on a daily basis. I'm sagging a bit in the rear with my Dobinsons 701v rear springs.

From AL we headed to Houston, TX where I have family. Hwy driving about 70-75mph I was getting about 17-18mpg. It was better on the east side of Texas and once I started hitting west Texas with the wind and increase in elevation my mpg started to dip a bit. Still getting about 16-17mpg with a range of about 320 miles. You could say I'm carrying "overland' weight considering how much stuff we brought with us. I don't think those numbers are bad at all and almost acceptable given my build.

I think the key to a build is to start with fundaments and keep things modular. Obviously things like bumpers, skids, sliders stay on all the time but keep the other weight to a minimum when not in use. You don't need to keep the hi-lift, jerry cans, maxtrax, recovery gear, shovel, camp gear, camp kitchen in the vehicle when not in use. You can also get quick release awning brackets as well. I think the problem people have is when they run an "overland' loadout all the time in their daily driver. I typically keep that stuff organized on a garage shelf so that when I'm ready to head out I know where to get it and can load it up quickly. Roof loads kill and I'd suggest anyone wanting an RTT think about before purchasing. Drawers are nice but again the typical ARB or Dobinsons drawers are extremely heavy and people just end up filling them to the gills. A lightweight modular platform like the [MENTION=639619]AirDownGearUp[/MENTION] one combined with Front Runner wolf packs or Alu-boxes is a good way to increase space and get organized without the weight of a drawer system. Again, the system is easily removed for weight and if you need to use your cargo area.

All in all, I bought the 4Runner because I wanted to build it out and have fun with it. The only thing I'd change is my bumper choice. I access it too many times a day for a dual swing out and I think eventually I'll convert it to a single half swing. Either that or I'll be hitting up Stellar built to build me a single half swing tube style rear bumper. Not something that is made in production quantity yet. All 5th gen tube style bumpers I've seen are one offs at this point.

 

[TRD PANTHER]

Given your username, a Panther would be more appropriate than a Tiger II. :lmao:

But back to original topic.

Weight is a big consideration for me as well. Like others have said, the vehicle was designed to operate under certain conditions, and its own weight is a big part of that. The vehicle works as a system of all parts, and when you're changing one part and it's characteristics, you're affecting others. The immediate things that most people consider are acceleration, fuel economy and braking.

But I think there's more to it. Mass, rotating mass, inertia and load bearing all has to be considered, I think. Stressed parts such as axles, wheel bearings, suspension mounts and linkages, they all get stressed under heavier weight and they all have a working load limit. I'm sure there is plenty of safety margin built into the vehicle, but I'm also sure that there are impacts none the less, even if they don't mean immediate breakage of a component.

I'm on 33s with sliders and skid plates, but not front/rear bumpers. As far as armor goes, I don't think I'll be adding more weight -- maybe a front bumper in the future because a winch would give me a good safety margin if I'm out alone, but otherwise I don't want to add more. My sliders are steel but skids are aluminum, specifically to save weight.

Good catch on the Tiger 2. Yes, I was looking quickly for a Panther first, it actually had a small, rare 20 ton jack on the back, but the image was too small. Most know the infamous Tiger also.
All your points are valid. With forum members, that happen to be more off road enthusiasts then your normal 4Runner owner, there are so many situations that arise as to the accessories they need versus what they really use. Larger off road tires with a lift is usually the number one culprit for everything that you stated. I have been driving 4wheel trucks since 1977 as my daily drivers and Toyota 4wd's since 1982. I always put bigger tires and lift them and never have had any real issues. I signed up for bad gas mileage and lower performance from the beginning. Has never bothered me. I put in the context that if you did get 5mpg better than another 4Runner, i.e.; 15mpg vs 20mpg, at $3 per gallon, on a thousand mile road trip, this is only a difference of $50. If you drove 12k a year this would only be a difference of $600.

 

[TRD PANTHER]

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I don't see anything wrong with a Porsche Cayenne burning by you on a mountain pass. IMO those things were made exactly for mountain passes. It has a ridiculous amount of power. Buddy of mine had one and it was smooth and powerful. Also I think CR did a survey lately that showed Porsche being the #2 most reliable brand. #1 was Lexus.

I've seen a few YT videos of them going off-road and I think they're more capable than one would expect. I saw a lifted Cayenne the other day and did not hate it. Actually, it was kind of badass.

Much better than the Land/Range rovers we were discussing the other day.

 

[ahtoxa11]

One last point I want to make here. It's a bit of a rant, so forgive me.

I was checking out my buddy's RTT on his JKU and we started talking about weight. 250 lbs -- holy crap! I certainly see the benefits and why some people like RTTs, but this isn't for me. Having that much weight up top is a no-go. Plus, you need an aftermarket rack to support all that RTT weight, so it's probably closer to 300 extra pounds on top of the roof.

It might not be as big of a deal when strictly overlanding with little serious offroad action, but here in CO I don't want that much weight on top. It moves CG way too high, in my opinion, even if there are lighter options out there. Lighter options will also likely cost more, at which point the perceived value starts to diminish.

 

[KingPrat]

Screen Shot 2021-03-17 at 10.10.45 AM by Brian Praetorius, on Flickr

This was posted in the 4Runner group on Facebook. This is without bumpers or anything, but he does have a full drawer system.

This is a bit of an uninformed question, but is tire load range a consideration when calculating GVWR? I'm sure it's not, but I feel like no matter what you'd have to move up to an LT tire with any type of serious mods.

I always respect a well-modded vehicle, but these numbers are wild.

 

[ahtoxa11]

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I don't see anything wrong with a Porsche Cayenne burning by you on a mountain pass. IMO those things were made exactly for mountain passes. It has a ridiculous amount of power. Buddy of mine had one and it was smooth and powerful. Also I think CR did a survey lately that showed Porsche being the #2 most reliable brand. #1 was Lexus.

I've seen a few YT videos of them going off-road and I think they're more capable than one would expect. I saw a lifted Cayenne the other day and did not hate it. Actually, it was kind of badass.

I'd be willing to bed that this Porsche is an Instagram Queen and doesn't see much more than a gravel road.

 

[Sea_ledford]

This is a bit of an uninformed question, but is tire load range a consideration when calculating GVWR? I'm sure it's not, but I feel like no matter what you'd have to move up to an LT tire with any type of serious mods.

Pretty sure everything goes into GVWR calculations. One of the full size truck AEV conversions has a lower tow rating than the stock version, despite, better suspension, bigger brakes, and all the other stuff they swap out.

The reason? The AEV front bumper blocks more air flow to the radiator than the stock one, causing higher running temps.

The idea that owners can install stiffer springs and do a gear swap and think they are all good is absurd. I guess that is why the numbers are so conservative! The down side is if the numbers are TOO conservative, everyone will just ignore them (I'm looking at you, stupid 120lb roof rating).