Leveling Kit and Wheels spacers = power loss?

[clemsonxplorer]

I just recently installed the daystar leveling kit and wheel spacers and love the look of it even with stock tires. I do think the front would look better with just .75" or 1" wheel spacers instead of 1.25".

Anyway, since I am running stock tires should there be any reason for any power loss? Stress from the wheel spacers, wind resistance from the front being lifted?

The only time I really notice it is on the highway when cruise control drops down a gear to make it up a hill. I don't think it did this before the modifications (I only drove it on the highway twice before the mods) and I know my 08 Tacoma didn't do it. My 04 Tacoma did do it, but I figured it was because it had the smaller v6.

 

[Clemsonfan15]

Only a very minor power loss from just a lift.

 

[clemsonxplorer]

I'm finding on google where wheel spacers will cause power loss at the wheels. Only way to find out is take them off I guess,

Clemsonfan15, you know what hills I am talking about then, I-26 between the upstate and Columbia.

 

[Clemsonfan15]

I'm finding on google where wheel spacers will cause power loss at the wheels. Only way to find out is take them off I guess,

Clemsonfan15, you know what hills I am talking about then, I-26 between the upstate and Columbia.

Yeah, sure do. I was traveling the same roads two weeks ago.

Power loss is normally attributed to either more rolling weight (ex. larger tires) or more wind resistance (lift, rack).

Do you live in Clemson?

 

[clemsonxplorer]

Yeah, sure do. I was traveling the same roads two weeks ago.

Power loss is normally attributed to either more rolling weight (ex. larger tires) or more wind resistance (lift, rack).

Do you live in Clemson?

I am from Orangeburg, went to Clemson, live in Greenville now, and moving to Texas in august. How bout you?

So are you saying it's not the wheel spacers at all and must be 1.75" front lift and the halfmoon outfitters crossbar pads creating enough wind resistance? I wish you could program cruise control to stay in overdrive no
matter what.

 

[Clemsonfan15]

I think your cruise control is working properly. I haven't heard of a lift or wheel spacers causing a major loss of power. Maybe someone else will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

I live in Greenville and go to Clemson.

 

[BamBam]

I noticed it a bit on my FJ after adding a Gobi roof rack. I just attributed it to additional weight. It seemed to do more gear hunting. I think it created more wind resistance as well, which made it seem like the thing was trying to push through a storm at all times.

It sounds crazy as the weight differential wasn't massive, but the difference was noticeable. Once you start changing your aerodynamics then things will be a bit different. You may want to do a hard reset on the computer by disconnecting your battery for a few and then giving it a test drive and see if it is still happening. It could be totally coincidental and could be something as easy as getting some inferior gasoline and having some knocking.

 

[Jed]

Neither of those things can cause an actual power loss. I can assure you that your engine is still making the same amount of HP, all else equal.

In theory, lifting a vehicle can cause a bit more wind resistance, mostly due to additional airflow under the vehicle. But it wouldn't be anything that you should be able to actually feel from the driver's seat.

How long have you been driving with you new set up? The reason I ask is because you might have to get some more driving time to really determine if there's a difference. Who knows, maybe you were driving into a strong headwind the first time you got on to the highway with your lift and spacers installed. Seriously, you shouldn't feel a difference at all....

 

[Maz]

Neither of those things can cause an actual power loss. I can assure you that your engine is still making the same amount of HP, all else equal.

In theory, lifting a vehicle can cause a bit more wind resistance, mostly due to additional airflow under the vehicle. But it wouldn't be anything that you should be able to actually feel from the driver's seat.

How long have you been driving with you new set up? The reason I ask is because you might have to get some more driving time to really determine if there's a difference. Who knows, maybe you were driving into a strong headwind the first time you got on to the highway with your lift and spacers installed. Seriously, you shouldn't feel a difference at all....

Why dimish clemsonxplorer's concerns as if he's unreasonable for having one? This thread doesn't even remotely suggest anyone's engine was creating less horse power. Only that it feels like there is less power after a modification. Moreover it's pretty strange to twice insist someone shouldn't feel exactly what was carefully described as having been felt in the vehicle, as if it didn't happen. Somehow I think clemsonxplorer is capable of discerning the difference between feeling less power, and driving into headwinds.

 

[Jed]

Why dimish clemsonxplorer's concerns as if he's unreasonable for having one? This thread doesn't even remotely suggest anyone's engine was creating less horse power. Only that it feels like there is less power after a modification. Moreover it's pretty strange to twice insist someone shouldn't feel exactly what was carefully described as having been felt in the vehicle, as if it didn't happen. Somehow I think clemsonxplorer is capable of discerning the difference between feeling less power, and driving into headwinds.

First of all, don't start your crap with me again. Didn't you learn your lesson last time?

Back on topic-- he asked if adding wheel spacers and a lift will cause "power loss". And I answered-- no, it will not cause a loss of power. I also explained that it's probably more a perception (or feeling) and that those mods shouldn't do anything to actually slow his vehicle down significantly or perceptibly from a "seat of the pants" kind of way.

Now leave me along and get back to bothering someone else before you get us both banned again with your immature bickering.

 

[Maz]

clemsonxplorer experienced a problem while driving after his mods. Not he nor anyone else thinks his engine is producing less power. He described specific problems i.e. his transmission searching for a gear. Telling him he's really only just perceiving this issue is rather interesting. However making a definitive statement his mods couldn't change the driving characteristics of his vehicle simply isn't supported by the facts, and throwing out some rather colorful language isn't going to change that.

We can debate the amount of the effect, however it's incontrovertable that changing air flow dynamics and angles of which power is delivered from a car to the road will have at least some effect. clemonsonxplorer lifted his car and changed the air flow from the original design. He's now got more air running under the vehicle which creates a floating effect and reduces traction. There is a reason manufacturers of cars like Ferrari and Porsche have their cars hugging the ground and using ground effect designs.

clemsonxplorer also likely changed the running angle from the classic 4th Gen squash, to a level or nearly level attitude. That's a lot more pleasing to the eye and undoubtably improves off-road clearance, but it also cuts back on the downward air flow against the tires that creates more traction. You end up more or less with a neutral flow of air above and below the vehicle, whereas the original design created more downward push. Like an airplane wing creates lift, only in reverse.

Again we can debate how slight the effect, but adding spacers increases the angle power must overcome to create traction and forward movement. Don't forget clemonxplorer had more than one mod. As the number of changes increases, so too does the cumulative effect. I agree with clemsonfan15 there will be some power loss from a lift, especially if the end result is a level vehicle. In addition, as clemsonxplorer discovered from his search, there can also be some effective loss from spacers. While not hugely significant on their own, all three together may well be causing the gear searching he's experienced.

 

[clemsonxplorer]

All I really wanted to know is if anybody has noticed cruise control dropping down a gear to get up a hill more often than it used to after putting on a leveling kit and/or wheel spacers.

If it is the leveling kit, then I will live with it. If it is the wheel spacers then perhaps I will look for FJ wheels with the different offset and eliminate the wheel spacers.

Personally, I don't see how it could be the wheel spacers since the diameter of the wheel and tire did not change, but just thought I would check with the forum.

I only drove the 4runner on the highway twice before doing these mods, but felt like it handled the hills like my 08 Tacoma did (not dropping down a gear). This made sense to me too since they have the same engine. I just remember it was really annoying when my 04 Taco did it, and it was a relief when the 08 Taco did not do it. Didn't expect the 4runner to do it and I am just wondering if my mods caused it or if it was normal for 4runners with the 4.0.

 

[Maz]

All I really wanted to know is if anybody has noticed cruise control dropping down a gear to get up a hill more often than it used to after putting on a leveling kit and/or wheel spacers.

If it is the leveling kit, then I will live with it. If it is the wheel spacers then perhaps I will look for FJ wheels with the different offset and eliminate the wheel spacers.

Personally, I don't see how it could be the wheel spacers since the diameter of the wheel and tire did not change, but just thought I would check with the forum.

I only drove the 4runner on the highway twice before doing these mods, but felt like it handled the hills like my 08 Tacoma did (not dropping down a gear). This made sense to me too since they have the same engine. I just remember it was really annoying when my 04 Taco did it, and it was a relief when the 08 Taco did not do it. Didn't expect the 4runner to do it and I am just wondering if my mods caused it or if it was normal for 4runners with the 4.0.

I think you're right xplorer it's probably not the spacers alone. However they do play some role in the overall new performance of your vehicle. You can try removing them to see, but this problem you're experiencing is likey a cumulative thing from all the changes...not just one.

For many people this never comes up as they don't use their cruise control, or don't have hills with a great enough slope to cause the transmision to search for a happy place. You're combo of V-6 power, spacers, lift, running angle, and roads, has apparently created a situation that ends up causing the scenario where the tranny never get a flow going.

You're only alternative is to start removing mods until the problem goes away, change the route, or change your driving style. Sorry I know none of these options is desireable, but the only other thing is to go for power enhancers like chips, etc., and now you're talking about some potential significant cpoin that may or may not change for root problem. Maybe your best bet is just not using the cruise control on that particular stretch of road?

Good luck and let us know if and how things work out.

 

[Jed]

Clemsonxplorer,

Don't sweat the wheel spacers. There's absolutely nothing that they can do to hurt the accleration of your vehicle and cause the cruise control to behave differently. If anything at all, you might notice a slight handling difference (due to the wider stance) but they will not affect your acceleration.

As for the spacer lift, again, no big deal. The only effect you might see is a slight increase in drag from the additional airflow under the vehicle. But then again this would be so slight that it wouldn't be noticeable in most cases.

 

[Jed]

BTW, I have FJ wheels on my 4Runner. They have a slightly more aggressive offset than the OEM 4Runner wheels, so they do look more flush with the fenders. Your wheel spacers are much more aggressive. Unforunately, you won't get the same aggressive stance by swapping FJ wheels in place of the wheel spacers. But that all depends upon what you think looks good. To me, the '03-'05 models look perfect with the stance of the FJ wheels. The '06-'09 models need more offset than the FJ wheels provide to give them that perfect stance.

 

[clemsonxplorer]

BTW, I have FJ wheels on my 4Runner. They have a slightly more aggressive offset than the OEM 4Runner wheels, so they do look more flush with the fenders. Your wheel spacers are much more aggressive. Unforunately, you won't get the same aggressive stance by swapping FJ wheels in place of the wheel spacers. But that all depends upon what you think looks good. To me, the '03-'05 models look perfect with the stance of the FJ wheels. The '06-'09 models need more offset than the FJ wheels provide to give them that perfect stance.

If I stay closer to 70 mph than 80 mph the down shifting isn't near as bad, so if anything this issue will save me gas by forcing me to drive slower. I'm happy with that. I wish there was a way to reprogram the CC to just lose speed up a hill instead of down shifting. I had a 93 Explorer that did this and its much less annoying.

I agree about the FJ wheels. The only reason I would switch to them is to get rid of the wheel spacers for safety reasons, but also because 17" tires cost less than 18" tires. I do however love the stance I currently have. My stock tires actually rubbed with the wheel spacers even though I have a leveling kit. I moved the liners forward though and they don't rub anymore. Another reason to switch to FJ wheels, especially if I wanted a bigger tire.

 

[SurfToy]

I haven't installed my leveling spacers yet, but when I recently took a long road trip loaded heavy (wife, dog, four days worth of grub, drink and gear), I got the best highway mileage I've ever seen - 25.2 indicated (obviously less in reality). I attributed it to the fact that the truck was actually MORE aerodynamic without the pronounced rake. It was sitting nearly level with the compression of the rear springs. It will be interesting to see if I notice a similar difference once the front spacers are installed and the truck rides more level unloaded.

Just an anecdote for the files...

 

[Maz]

If I stay closer to 70 mph than 80 mph the down shifting isn't near as bad, so if anything this issue will save me gas by forcing me to drive slower. I'm happy with that. I wish there was a way to reprogram the CC to just lose speed up a hill instead of down shifting. I had a 93 Explorer that did this and its much less annoying.

I agree there should be a way to use cruise control based on RPM's as well as just based on speed. xplorer I think a lot of vehicles, lifted and with mods or not, are going to be downshifting while going 80 MPH up hills. Even with a V-8 at that speed you could have a similar problem.

One thought, if you want to keep up the higher speed maybe the roads are such that you could click off the cruise going uphill then click resume going back down or in the flats?

 

[hammersc]

Another tiger fan here that travels that stretch of I-26 a few times a month (g/f in Gville). I have a 1.25" leveling lift as well and had stock tires for 5 1/2 years until last week. So on those stock tires with the level lift, I did not notice a loss of power or a tendency to downshift more often in the hills. I can't speak for wheel spacers - don't have them. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. 265/70s make a difference on power and mpg, but again, barely enough to even mention.

 

[clemsonxplorer]

Another tiger fan here that travels that stretch of I-26 a few times a month (g/f in Gville). I have a 1.25" leveling lift as well and had stock tires for 5 1/2 years until last week. So on those stock tires with the level lift, I did not notice a loss of power or a tendency to downshift more often in the hills. I can't speak for wheel spacers - don't have them. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. 265/70s make a difference on power and mpg, but again, barely enough to even mention.

But it does indeed down shift? Whats your threshold between it hardly doing it and doing it a lot. If I go 75-80 mph it does it a lot. If I stay around 72 or below it doesn't do it near as much. The Tacoma could go 80 on that stretch and not miss a beat.