Lifts are turning out to be a PITA

[EDGE]

I hope the X-Reas failure is related to the lift cause I bought the extended warranty to cover the shocks, thats what they told me:

 

[RL Lemke]

I hope the X-Reas failure is related to the lift cause I bought the extended warranty to cover the shocks, thats what they told me:

My Toyota warranty is thru Gulf States. I reviewed the Toyota Extra Care book and find that none of their warranties cover the shocks. Their warranty is one of those that if it is listed it's covered, if not it's not.

 

[RL Lemke]

I have been looking at the coilovers for some time now. I think I'm going to wait for the DOnahoe ones, but since you need them now SAW looks like a good route to go. ARe you getting the 2.5" or 2"? What are you going to put in the back (the Revtek kit spacers + shocks)?

I will stick with the Revtek kit in back, using their supplied shocks. They are a snap to replace should I want something heavier. I am also thinking that I want to get longer rear springs from Downey.

The SAW coil overs are 2" I think, for $750. The upcoming Donahoe coil overs will be 2.5" for about $1100. The Donahoe kit is certainly more up to off-road abuse. I am a slow trail driver though, so the 2" SAWs will be fine. Certainly much better than the options I have tried to date. The install is certainly a lot easier too.

 

[dcampen]

Sway-a-way coilovers

I can't find any info on their web site about a coilover kit for 4th Gens. I see the kit for 3rd Gens.
http://www.racerunnershocks.com/

 

[Good Times]

I'll have the complete information on the SAW's tomorrow.

I'm waiting on the confirmation on the exact part number/price combination so bare with me.

I"ll also have photos of the product.

Thanks

 

[Expat]

I understand you are frustrated...but simultaneously excited to be getting coilovers instead but....I still can't grasp where the actual leak has developed from (location and cause).

I imagine you are probably consumed now with trying to get it all together before your MOAB trip (lucky B.: ) but if you have the time and opportunity could you explain the failure in more detail?

Do you have any photos of where the leak is coming from and any thoughts about the possible cause? It seems unlikely that the actual product (NE) could be the cause, otherwise all lift products (Daystar/Rev.) would suffer the same fatal flaw.

I wonder how much offroad use you have done and is this a likely problem in the near future for others who have a lift (spacers)?

I guess I'm thinking about the possiblity that it has something to do with over extending the shock during some body flexing?

I also understand that others have yet to be effected by their lifts and certainly "Bullie" does some fairly testing offroad stuff but is his time coming too? (Sorry Bulldog ).

This may be a very important thread to many of us.

Thanks for your time keeping us up to date with your hassles. I am sure it must be very frustrating.

Cheers
Mark

 

[4route]

04Runner. I do not think you need to worry. People have been running the Daystar lift and Revtek lift for over a year without issue. When I had my Revtek kit, I wheeled it hard a few times and never had any problems.

I do think it has something to do with the NE lift - because it does give more lift than Revtek or Daystar, and the re-locs bending the shock probably didn't/don't help.

The leak on my XREAS system and on RL's is coming from where the top and bottom of the shock meet.

 

[bulldog-yota]

Mark,

The thing is NE was the only lift that relocated the rear shocks to a higher location. This allowed more droop, but at the same time exposed the shock to overcompression at full compression. The reason is that the bumpstops are still in the same location. I have expressed my concerns about this over at YT a number of times and was not the only one to do so. Neither Revtek nor Daystar relocates the stock XREAS shock, Revtek rather offers a replacement shock for non XREAS purposes.

I seriously doubt that people with Revtek or Daystar kits will experience the same problem. As it does not place the same amount of stress on the XREAS shocks in the back. Also keep in ind that the rear swaybar does protect you somewhat against over extension as it does limits some of the travel and also some of the extension force at full flex.

Bumpstops is supposed to protect your shock from overcompression and on extreme suspension systems people put in limiting straps to protect against over extension.

The issue I have is that I have yet to see a picture(s) of a fully flexed XREAS rear axle with NE relocators to see where the bumpstops sit vs non relocator.

On this board Doodz and I have done a lot of offroading (unfortunately not together), he has the Revtek kit with XREAS and I have the Daystar with XREAS and neither of us has had issues with the XREAS system. So I would say it is save to say XREAS can handle a properly configured spacer lift. Even under some extreme conditions. See examples below.

video

 

[4RunningGuy]

RL : I'm sorry to hear about your suspension woes. I hope everything works out for you.

Bulldog : WTH! I just watched that vid 40 times. That is amazing. :bugeye: Anyways, have noticed anymore sagging from the daystars after you replaced them? Thanks.

 

[bulldog-yota]

RL : I'm sorry to hear about your suspension woes. I hope everything works out for you.

Bulldog : WTH! I just watched that vid 40 times. That is amazing. :bugeye: Anyways, have noticed anymore sagging from the daystars after you replaced them? Thanks.

Nah, it just seems they give 2" or so lift, not 2.5" . The new ones seem to net the same as the old ones. So it seems that is just the way they are. It's Ok for now, but I'll probably upgrade my suspension later this year to something more substantial.

Hope RL gets sorted out, before he goes to Moab.

 

[EDGE]

My Toyota warranty is thru Gulf States. I reviewed the Toyota Extra Care book and find that none of their warranties cover the shocks. Their warranty is one of those that if it is listed it's covered, if not it's not.

I don't know man, they sold the extended warranty to me as an extension of the bumper to bumper, the guys exact words where everything in covered from bumper to bumper for 3 years 36k this will do that, just extend it to 5 years 60k bumper to bumper.

I'd be pissed if anything did go wrong cause of that statement, plus my old man was their, I'd ask my lawyer if it came to it, I doubt it's gonna, Im not lifting it, but I know how dealer look for anything to say it voided

 

[bulldog-yota]

I don't know man, they sold the extended warranty to me as an extension of the bumper to bumper, the guys exact words where everything in covered from bumper to bumper for 3 years 36k this will do that, just extend it to 5 years 60k bumper to bumper.

I'd be pissed if anything did go wrong cause of that statement, plus my old man was their, I'd ask my lawyer if it came to it, I doubt it's gonna, Im not lifting it, but I know how dealer look for anything to say it voided

Be careful as they dont gaurentee consumible items, and shocks might just fall in that category.

 

[EDGE]

I just realized that:arrow:

 

[Expat]

I've been searching back and forth looking at the various posts about the spacers here and at YT.

I believe RL Lemke bought his Runner in Sept 04 (?). What was the order and dates of when all the lifts were done to his truck? I can't seem to find threads about this.

Are there any people with NE spacers (XREAS) who have had theirs in place longer than RL Lemke? Have they had problems with the XREAS failing?

I'm just curious about the cause of the failure. I know the suggestion is that maybe the NE lift was too much for the stock shocks but would that be disputed by owners who have had their lift LONGER than RL Lemke and do use their trucks offroad? (obviously its almost useless data if they only put the lift in for looks and don't actually do any off roading).

Doesn't Will (Splat) have a NE lift? I don't think he has had any issues so far that I know of. (Other than the complaint of lower quality bolts that was rectified eventually by NE).

I'm not critisizing anyone, just want to understand the situation and would love to know the actual cause (not hypothesizing) of the failure of RL Lemke's XREAS as I am considering a lift myself, although I was intending to go with Cornfed which is about the same hieight as Rev. and Day.

Am I also correct saying that not everyone who had the NE lift used the relocs? Is there any conclusion to be drawn possibly between people who did have NE Relocs and those that didn't - in other words it was the relocs causing the problem and not the spacers (lift height) per se?

 

[RL Lemke]

Is there any conclusion to be drawn possibly between people who did have NE Relocs and those that didn't - in other words it was the relocs causing the problem and not the spacers (lift height) per se? [/B]

All I can tell is what I have said so far. Just the facts.
1) I ordered a 2004 SE V8 4X4 from Japan in September 2003, taking delivery 1/28/2004.
2) Toyota of Plano installed the NE kit in January 2005. During the install of the NE kit they removed the Xreas lines from the front struts. A very small amount of fluid leaked. Since there were no installation instructions with the kit, the mechanic installed the front spacers a bit wrong. The thin top spacer cracked.
3) Anthony sent me replacement thin spacers in February. However, there were no replacement bolts for the carriage bolts which were included in the kit.
4) By the end of January I became uncomfortable with the safety of the front lift components. Especially the low grade bolts.
5) I assumed that the steel front lift parts included with the Revlok kit would solve my "shudder" issues with the lift handling.
6) Two weeks ago I had Mike's Off Road install the front parts of the Revlok kit. At that time they showed me that the left rear shock bottom tube was covered in shock fluid.
7) Wednesday I took the 4Runner to Toyota of Plano to have the rear shock replaced under warranty. I have the Toyota Extra Care Gold Plan.
8) T of P called the warranty office for Toyota and was told that my plan didn't cover shocks.
9) T of P wants $1200+ for the Xreas parts plus installation to replace the entire Xreas system.
10) For that kind of money I'll get a coil over front suspension, and keep a spacer lift in the rear. Then I will have the Revtek rear shocks installed on the original lower mounting point. Removing the NE rolocation bolt.
11) In a dream world, I'll send my NE kit back and get a refund.
12) Sway A Way will deliver to their pre-ordered retailers the first of their 4th gen 4Runner coil over struts. Donahoe will deliver thier coil overs by March 1st.
13) I am heading to Moab on March 4th, with or without functional shocks.
14) If I can get the SAW struts in time, I will be able to give all y'all a review by mid March.
15) Good Times (aka Lance) has been a HUGE help in my efforts to make this change to coil overs. He has really helped me understand how spacers are not what any of us really want. For the few dollars more, it is better to do things right the first time.

Time for bed.

 

[bulldog-yota]

Well all of the best RL, hope you get the SAWs early enough to get them in with the Revtek rear end.

Spacers were mostly a stop gap solution for me, till the usual suspects came to market with stuff for the 4th Gens.

Good Times has been a huge help to me as well in the journey to a great 4th Gen. He got me thinking about the coil-overs as well and it will probably suite my specific needs the best too.

I was not aware of the first installation issues with the lift kits, however it seems you may not be the only one that have had issues with your XREAS and the NE kit. But I guess more time will tell. I am still very suspicious of the rear relocs and my personal recommendation to anybody would be to not use them till they are proven to not cause an issue. I have yet to see pics of the axle in real work with the relocs. I also have yet to see anybody have an issue with XREAS, who run stock or any other lift kit. And many people have Daystar and Revtek running XREAS. So I guess it is up to everybody to make up their own mind.

 

[Expat]

Thanks RL and others for this thread. Again more interesting info that will make many of us ponder the functionality of some spacer lifts.

I'm sure you will have nothing but joy with the coilovers. Look forward to your write RL. Good luck. :bigok:

 

[bulldog-yota]

RL, I would like to discuss at a later point further. I think first priority is to get your rig up and running. So once it is all good and you had a good vac in Moab, I would like to know a bit more detail. Might help others save their shocks in the future.

And actually I'm jealous, you will have a nice set of coilovers before me

Oh and if you dont get a swaybar, it is the 2" ones.

 

[ToyotaDoodz]

Mark,

The thing is NE was the only lift that relocated the rear shocks to a higher location. This allowed more droop, but at the same time exposed the shock to over-compression at full compression. The reason is that the bump stops are still in the same location. I have expressed my concerns about this over at YT a number of times and was not the only one to do so. Neither Revtek nor Daystar relocates the stock XREAS shock, Revtek rather offers a replacement shock for non XREAS purposes.

I seriously doubt that people with Revtek or Daystar kits will experience the same problem. As it does not place the same amount of stress on the XREAS shocks in the back. Also keep in ind that the rear swaybar does protect you somewhat against over extension as it does limits some of the travel and also some of the extension force at full flex.

Bumpstops is supposed to protect your shock from over compression and on extreme suspension systems people put in limiting straps to protect against over extension.

On this board Doodz and I have done a lot of offroading (unfortunately not together), he has the Revtek kit with XREAS and I have the Daystar with XREAS and neither of us has had issues with the XREAS system. So I would say it is save to say XREAS can handle a properly configured spacer lift. Even under some extreme conditions.

Ever since I've had my lift, I've rolled underneath the rig to check out the suspension after every wheeling trip. It's rock solid. No leaks or evidence of earlier leaks. I've re-torqued it 3 times.

It bothers me a lot to hear the dealership that did RL's first lift disconnected the shocks to begin with but if a shock is leaking around the cylinder, it's the top seal.

Let's talk theoretically here. If a shock is over compressed or over extended, would it not break down internally and become a less effective absorber, but the top slider seal still be intact? Reason I ask is I've seen worn out shocks on old vehicles but they don't leak at the top seal.

Also, as to the party line at the dealers about XREAS, consider this. OK they say the system needs to be replaced. Fine. How are "they" going to get it from the warehouse in a pressurized condition? Sure the manual says you can remove an XREAS shock with the vehicle on a lift where ALL FOUR wheels are hanging loose and each shock will seal itself. Soooooo, how do they pressurize the lines for the new shocks they're replacing? Are the lines with the reservoir pressurized to? Look at the shape and length of the lines. You can't tell me they ship them that way in a flat box the size of your vehicle. To me, there's something wrong with all the dealer's stories or they're leaving out the part where they fill the lines. It's just not logical from the standpoint of being able to replace them at all.

 

[Sac State]

All I can tell is what I have said so far. Just the facts.
1) I ordered a 2004 SE V8 4X4 from Japan in September 2003, taking delivery 1/28/2004.
2) Toyota of Plano installed the NE kit in January 2005. During the install of the NE kit they removed the Xreas lines from the front struts. A very small amount of fluid leaked. Since there were no installation instructions with the kit, the mechanic installed the front spacers a bit wrong. The thin top spacer cracked.
3) Anthony sent me replacement thin spacers in February. However, there were no replacement bolts for the carriage bolts which were included in the kit.
4) By the end of January I became uncomfortable with the safety of the front lift components. Especially the low grade bolts.
5) I assumed that the steel front lift parts included with the Revlok kit would solve my "shudder" issues with the lift handling.
6) Two weeks ago I had Mike's Off Road install the front parts of the Revlok kit. At that time they showed me that the left rear shock bottom tube was covered in shock fluid.
7) Wednesday I took the 4Runner to Toyota of Plano to have the rear shock replaced under warranty. I have the Toyota Extra Care Gold Plan.
8) T of P called the warranty office for Toyota and was told that my plan didn't cover shocks.
9) T of P wants $1200+ for the Xreas parts plus installation to replace the entire Xreas system.
10) For that kind of money I'll get a coil over front suspension, and keep a spacer lift in the rear. Then I will have the Revtek rear shocks installed on the original lower mounting point. Removing the NE rolocation bolt.
11) In a dream world, I'll send my NE kit back and get a refund.
12) Sway A Way will deliver to their pre-ordered retailers the first of their 4th gen 4Runner coil over struts. Donahoe will deliver thier coil overs by March 1st.
13) I am heading to Moab on March 4th, with or without functional shocks.
14) If I can get the SAW struts in time, I will be able to give all y'all a review by mid March.
15) Good Times (aka Lance) has been a HUGE help in my efforts to make this change to coil overs. He has really helped me understand how spacers are not what any of us really want. For the few dollars more, it is better to do things right the first time.

Time for bed.

I guess w/o any install instructions, TofP is not liable for runining your XREAS? I mean they (TofP) represent the manufacturer and should have known the line was pressurized and closed. Especially if they also install Revtek lifts.

I think TofP is liable as well.