Magnuson Supercharger for 2010-Present & 2010-2014 FJ

[1engineer]

The problem with a supercharger is the same as it's always been. There are already alternatives that are better. Charging nearly full retail for a test unit is an even tougher sell.

At $5k for a test unit, I'm sure they'll get a few takers. If they sell a lot of units, I'll be kinda surprised. So trying to recover a lot of development in each unit is probably pretty important. Putting the $ toward a LC200 seems like a much better investment. Not only do you get a lot more power. You also get a lot more axles, more gears, more suspension, more tailgate, and more durability. I love the idea - but it's just not very competitive with alternatives that offer a lot more for about the same money. Kinda the same reason you rarely see a performance upgrade offered for a base model engine in other vehicles. Putting a supercharger on a 4cyl tacoma happens - but wouldn't you probably just buy the v6? It looks like well engineered system. The price is inline with other similar superchargers.

They will get a few takers. They will never sell a lot of these. They know that some people will pay a lot of money for anything new or different just to have something new or different. This is why the first run will cost as much as the production units. There simply isn't a big volume demand for a supercharger on a 4Runner that is aftermarket. Now, if it was an option on a new 4Runner? There would be a lot of buyers because they could finance and have the warranty of 5/60. After owning a 4Runner and reading all these posts for almost seven years, I doubt they will sell over 500 units. If they sold over 1,000 I would be surprised. There simply isn't a demand. Sure, everyone WANTS more power but wanting something and shelling out $5K+ to get it are two different things.

 

[Swarty]

Very little development costs

They will get a few takers. They will never sell a lot of these. They know that some people will pay a lot of money for anything new or different just to have something new or different. This is why the first run will cost as much as the production units. There simply isn't a big volume demand for a supercharger on a 4Runner that is aftermarket. Now, if it was an option on a new 4Runner? There would be a lot of buyers because they could finance and have the warranty of 5/60. After owning a 4Runner and reading all these posts for almost seven years, I doubt they will sell over 500 units. If they sold over 1,000 I would be surprised. There simply isn't a demand. Sure, everyone WANTS more power but wanting something and shelling out $5K+ to get it are two different things.

Yeah the beauty of this for Magnusson is that there are very little in dev costs. They already had the right flow for the displacement they just had to adjust the mechanical interface and do some programming on an engine dyno. And TRD probably paid for a good portion of the original engineering costs when they were using Magnussen's chargers.

 

[2flyfishin]

I know what you were talking about and the fact that you are comparing an upgraded turbo for a tractor (that was already turbo to begin with) to a bolt on supercharger kit for a 4runner which is NA is beyond stupid. I'd explain that further but you won't understand.

$5500 is reasonable for this kit.

When/if URD releases their kit I promise it'll cost at least as much and won't have near the R&D or support behind it. Their Tacoma kit is $5795, why would the 4R be cheaper?.... I would however assume it makes more power, but that comes at a cost (longevity) and WOT power on these rigs is useless anyway. I've talked to Gadget about tuning, he's a nice fella. They are more of a grass roots small organization vs Mag which is a major player in the SC/FI industry.

I'm sorry for not drinking your cool aide. I am looking at the whole thing with just "Basic" math. A new trd pro , chosen because of comparable package (tires, lift, shocks, etc.), is $42,675. Add $5,500 to it, down time for sending off your euc, installation (even if you install it yourself, time is money), and everything else involved, you are at or around $50,000. Pull your head out. It's Way deep and look around at what is in that price range. A base 2018 Ford Raptor is $49,795 with 450 hp (100hp more than the expected 350hp for the 4runner with the sc) and 510 lb-ft torque. The raptor will still have more hp, torque, 10 speed transmission, towing cap., higher payload, long travel susp., better tires, the list goes on and trust me, Ford spent a LOT more on R&D on their twin turbo development than Mag. did on this sc . About the only thing you would give up with the base raptor would be heated seats and room for rear passengers because it is only an extra cab but the list of gains is HUGE. This is not to mention that you are entering Lexus territory with more hp and amenities so pull your head dude. Maybe you should have paid more attention in your basic math classes in school.

 

[wfo9]

I'm sorry for not drinking your cool aide. I am looking at the whole thing with just "Basic" math. A new trd pro , chosen because of comparable package (tires, lift, shocks, etc.), is $42,675. Add $5,500 to it, down time for sending off your euc, installation (even if you install it yourself, time is money), and everything else involved, you are at or around $50,000. Pull your head out. It's Way deep and look around at what is in that price range. A base 2018 Ford Raptor is $49,795 with 450 hp (100hp more than the expected 350hp for the 4runner with the sc) and 510 lb-ft torque. The raptor will still have more hp, torque, 10 speed transmission, towing cap., higher payload, long travel susp., better tires, the list goes on and trust me, Ford spent a LOT more on R&D on their twin turbo development than Mag. did on this sc . About the only thing you would give up with the base raptor would be heated seats and room for rear passengers because it is only an extra cab but the list of gains is HUGE. This is not to mention that you are entering Lexus territory with more hp and amenities so pull your head dude. Maybe you should have paid more attention in your basic math classes in school.

Every one of these threads turns into a raptor vs 4runner thread.... I can't figure out why. If not that it's a buy a GX or whatever... Great... we get it. Go buy whatever you want... it just so happens people here have 5th gen 4runners. And the thread is about a supercharger for that platform.

These truck are old. Been around since 2010 and have not changed at all... They were actually around since 03 and got minor updates in 10. They can be had for 25k or less all day long with another 200k of trouble free miles to go... The bones are solid.

That is the main target for this kit, not someone paying 48k for a new truck....It's people who have spent time and money on their trucks already and like them... just want a bit more usable power on the road (which is pretty much the only complaint most owners have) Lots of those used/modified 5th gens out there are running big tires, bumpers..... the extra 100tq is pretty much all they need to be more enjoyable. This kit will trigger many more big builds with solid axles... because Toyota has a big following, but the powerplant is always the limiting factor. Motor swaps are not really an option anymore. It's a boon for enthusiast (I know many people here are not that and understand it is not for them)

Putting this on a stock 5th gen would be pretty odd. That is not the target market at all... but I'm sure some will do it.

The price is very much in line with all aftermarket SC kits. The market ultimately sets the price and you simply can't argue with economics. Time will tell how many sell, but I don't understand all the hate.

 

[Scharfschütze]

I'm sorry for not drinking your cool aide. I am looking at the whole thing with just "Basic" math.

You're skirting the fact that you still have no idea what the difference between a tractor turbo upgrade and full bolt on SC kit is, please just STFU. You've lost all credibility.

I knew the raptor would come up eventually, don't we already have a dumpster fire post about that on here? Seriously, go away dude. You're "basic math" doesn't apply to anyone here....I don't want a raptor, I don't want a 200 or a 460. I have a nearly built 4r trail that I paid far less than 50k for and I see the value in bumping the HP up SOME for the sake of get up and go and getting my heavy rig moving better.

I give 0 F's about how it stacks up to the Raptor, its a completely different kind of offroad vehicle. Using a 4r like you would a raptor is dumb, its not built for that application at all.

Can we please get back to technical details about the new kit? Its obviously not for many of you. I would love it if we could wrangle the guy that drove it from CA to CO for FJ summit in here so he could give some feedback [MENTION=139149]THESS[/MENTION].

 

[graciedad04]

I agree [MENTION=139149]THESS[/MENTION] i would like to hear from someone who has spent some major seat time with it. I have no problem with the entire kit ending up around the 5500 mark. I cant afford it at this juncture in my life. If it had been about 1/2 price for additional testing purposes i would have definitely filled out everything to try and get one. Unfortunately i dont see myself getting one in the near future, but maybe someday.

As far as comparing it to the raptor that is retarded. Thats like comparing a fish to a zebra. Two totally different animals and not even close to comparison. If i wanted my rig to sit in the dealers shop more than in my driveway, then i would buy a craptor. (I am sure some of the guys on here have had fords and had good luck, not ne personally, owned 3 fords and they are the only vehicles to leave me on the side of the road.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Sleeter]

"I'm not a magnusson fan boy, but..."

Okay.

hahaha exactly!

 

[weeeee]

I'm here for the twin turbo kit

 

[RUNTHAT]

I'm here for the twin turbo kit

opcorn:

 

[wfo9]

"I'm not a magnusson fan boy, but..."

Okay.

hahaha exactly!

So hilarious...

Let me clear this up.
I have no affiliation with mangunson. No Instgram, no website, no self promotion in any way shape or form. No vendor has ever given me anything... All I have ever done here or within this community is helped people out for free and shared what I know and have done and my opinions. I'm sure it is does always align with your beliefs... but i'm pretty sure a few people appreciate a different perspective.

I have a quite a few PMs that make me think some people have appreciated my contributions.

I am a fanboy of choices/options, knowledge, technical discussions, and giving new things a chance... If that is your definition of a fanboy.. guilty as charged.

 

[LawnDart]

Actually I define it more as self agrandizing narcissism but whatevs ...

If you don't speak for a company then don't speak. Let them answer our concerns.

 

[hayde89]

Actually I define it more as self agrandizing narcissism but whatevs ...

If you don't speak for a company then don't speak. Let them answer our concerns.

Also makes me think of all the anti-kdss posts by a certain individual...:laser:agreed let the vendor answer the concerns.

 

[wfo9]

Actually I define it more as self agrandizing narcissism but whatevs ...

If you don't speak for a company then don't speak. Let them answer our concerns.

Let me address this in two parts.

1. If you have a problem with me.. please take it to PM. I would be more than happy to meet you in person some time and work it out. I won't clutter this thread defending myself against smarmy comments.

2. Don't speak! LOL So, it's A OK to post whatever bashing and complaining, but defending a product or stating an alternative opinion is not OK. Sounds like double standard to me. I guess everyone in this thread needs to just shut up then.

Dang it guys, I really don't want to see this. I want this forum to be a place to share information and learn. I have thoughts of never reading or posting again, but that seems like falling into just what some people here want which is more group think. I can't believe everyone is like that. If they are... then clearly I need to put the keyboard down.....

Also makes me think of all the anti-kdss posts by a certain individual...:laser:agreed let the vendor answer the concerns.

BTW, I'm not anti KDSS. I have had frustrations trying to work with it.. and have pointed out pros and cons. I've always settled on it is good for a certain use case and not others. Again, not for everyone.... Is that statement that inflammatory. Really struggling here.... I very well may come across on here as an ass hat.

 

[Scharfschütze]

hahaha exactly!

I think you've got some dart juice on your chin, might wanna wipe that off.

Actually I define it more as self agrandizing narcissism but whatevs ...

If you don't speak for a company then don't speak. Let them answer our concerns.

I know Wfo9 personally (though not extremely well, actually f2f just once I think) but I can assure you the guy isn't out for self aggrandizement (nice word usage BTW). He knows off-road rigs and fast cars really well and has hand built several, even a supercharged Vette. He's offering good insight into what we might expect and has experience with some of this stuff. He's no fan boy, hes just not butthurt like you guys about the price or concept, probably because he has 1/2 a brain and has realistic expectations.

There is one person speaking for the company in this thread so by your logic this should just be a bulletin from [MENTION=139149]THESS[/MENTION] with 0 comments. Get over yourself dude, not everyone has to agree with you, and if anyone here is a narcissist it is you, dart. You don't speak for this entire community, you have a nice truck and a nice camera and a lot of forum posts, good for you, but that doesn't give you the right to tell someone to squelch who is calling you and your personal fanboys out on their nonsense. :hand:

 

[Engineer]

.......

Because I could only like your post once so +1000 Likes

We all have different personalities and opinions and most folks in this thread have contributed greatly to the forum so even though its the internet lets be respectful.

:llama:

 

[LawnDart]

I pointed out some basic maths and percentages about the pilot program as they related to a marketing issue, I haven't commented about 5500 dollars for the supercharger being unreasonable at all. In fact I think the price is eh...okay, not more than I thought, not less than I thought.

I am certainly allowed to point out the fact that 5500 minus 500 is 9 percent. Unless we want to argue about that, in which case rad, that'll be fun. Magnusson should come on these forums and defend their position on how the pilot program is being handled since, and it's very obvious based on the responses here, that it doesn't sit well with people who've been waiting for this product for more than HALF a generational life span of this 4Runner.

A few of us know the HP/Torque numbers, and we're not gonna fart 'em out in a post yet because Magnusson should present numbers (which come on, it's been 1.5 months since FJ Summit, this shouldn't drag on like that). THESS has done a noble thing by herding cats here, but he shouldn't have to defend decisions of someone at Magnusson.

I point that out in an effort to force a company to rethink and improve something. Magnusson isn't a charity here. This is marketing. People pay for marketing. That's how it works, that's the field I've been in for the last 15 years of my life professional (aside from some jaunts into product design).

No one cares if you don't get free things, have no affiliations with companies, etc, that doesn't matter as long as people are willing to be honest with companies if the goal is to improve things first and foremost. I've pissed off a lot of companies, both ones I consider friends, and ones I don't, because I'll speak the truth even if it's unpopular if as a result a product can and should be improved. In the end, once heads have cooled, a manufacturer either appreciates that opportunity or it doesn't.

This pilot program doesn't feel more than a marketing program because it doesn't feel rooted in genuinely wanting to improve the product. It's rooted in promoting the product. And for that price (5000) it's a hard buy in for people who drive these rigs hard on the trail but bring them back into town for their daily drivers.

The whole reason we HAVE forums is to discuss and argue, and hopefully become enough of a blip on a company's radar that they take note and listen to the feedback and improve it.

 

[2flyfishin]

Every one of these threads turns into a raptor vs 4runner thread.... I can't figure out why. If not that it's a buy a GX or whatever... Great... we get it. Go buy whatever you want... it just so happens people here have 5th gen 4runners. And the thread is about a supercharger for that platform.

These truck are old. Been around since 2010 and have not changed at all... They were actually around since 03 and got minor updates in 10. They can be had for 25k or less all day long with another 200k of trouble free miles to go... The bones are solid.

That is the main target for this kit, not someone paying 48k for a new truck....It's people who have spent time and money on their trucks already and like them... just want a bit more usable power on the road (which is pretty much the only complaint most owners have) Lots of those used/modified 5th gens out there are running big tires, bumpers..... the extra 100tq is pretty much all they need to be more enjoyable. This kit will trigger many more big builds with solid axles... because Toyota has a big following, but the powerplant is always the limiting factor. Motor swaps are not really an option anymore. It's a boon for enthusiast (I know many people here are not that and understand it is not for them)

Putting this on a stock 5th gen would be pretty odd. That is not the target market at all... but I'm sure some will do it.

The price is very much in line with all aftermarket SC kits. The market ultimately sets the price and you simply can't argue with economics. Time will tell how many sell, but I don't understand all the hate.

I'm sorry and I didn't want to turn this into a raptor vs 4runner thing. That wasn't my point. My point is the price point and because of the price point, it isn't a realistic (monetary wise) option. The price point makes it a novelty item and as for true value, and as I and many others believe, your money would be better spent on a different platform, even when considering the used market. I love my 5th gen and it would be nice for a little more power but when I and others bring up that it would probably be smarter to look at a different platform for the money of this sc as you would get much more bang for your buck, some can't handle it and go to insulting and trying to belittle others. If people can't discuss the pro's and cons of the supercharger, this thread is completely useless and if someone can't handle somebody else bringing up a different opinion and go to attacking others because they did, they should get lost. If I wanted a raptor, trust me, I would have cut a check for the raptor. If I "needed" more power, I would have definitely looked at another platform. What it comes down to is I would like more power. I don't and nobody else on this forum know what Mag is making off each sc, but part of what I'm saying is the lower the price point can be, I believe the number of customers would grow exponentially. Like I said in one of my previous posts, Would you rather make $2000 off of 2000 people or $1000 off of 6000 people?, simple economics, and make a product that has the potential to become more mainstream, admittedly it will never be totally mainstream, making more people happier with their 4runners. The more they sell, things like R&D cost per unit goes down. Manufacturing costs go down and etc. as well.

 

[1engineer]

Let me address this in two parts.

1. If you have a problem with me.. please take it to PM. I would be more than happy to meet you in person some time and work it out. I won't clutter this thread defending myself against smarmy comments.

2. Don't speak! LOL So, it's A OK to post whatever bashing and complaining, but defending a product or stating an alternative opinion is not OK. Sounds like double standard to me. I guess everyone in this thread needs to just shut up then.

Dang it guys, I really don't want to see this. I want this forum to be a place to share information and learn. I have thoughts of never reading or posting again, but that seems like falling into just what some people here want which is more group think. I can't believe everyone is like that. If they are... then clearly I need to put the keyboard down.....




BTW, I'm not anti KDSS. I have had frustrations trying to work with it.. and have pointed out pros and cons. I've always settled on it is good for a certain use case and not others. Again, not for everyone.... Is that statement that inflammatory. Really struggling here.... I very well may come across on here as an ass hat.

One part of your post is correct:

Everyone in this thread needs to shut up, back off and relax, or it will be locked just like all the rest of the supercharger threads.

There's two schools of thought here - One group excited to see a supercharger and will do anything and pay anything to get it and one much bigger group that thinks it costs too much for what they get.

Seriously, every single one of you have expressed your opinion multiple times. I have had to caution one guy and just give an infraction to another. That's not counting having to delete a couple of posts. Try to take a few minutes and think outside the box and look at it from a different viewpoint. Both sides of this have pros and cons.

So, if you want this thread to remain open, cool the comments and wait until some actual NEWS comes out. Otherwise, I'll shut it down. This is worse than politics or religion.


-mod-

 

[THESS]

[MENTION=139149]THESS[/MENTION]

It would be nice to get some details on the rotor pack they are using in this unit. I've seen conflicting info if it is a true TVS rotor pack or not. What is the twist angle and how many lobes? I've seen mp90 listed for the old 1gr kit but not sure if that is just the size as I remember that model being around for a long time with the old 60* lobes. Seems like they went to cc based number for all the TVS units.

It’s a TVS 1320. Same rotor size and type as used in the Eaton supercharger for the Audi V6. TVS is 4 lobe, high efficiency with 160° degrees of twist. Yes the TVS units are all called out in cc’s. A TVS 1320 is 1320 cc per revolution or 1.32 liters per revolution.

Another techy tidbit: they also using the large charge air cooler from the Tundra kit. That is the heat exchanger inside the supercharger, not the one mounted in front of the truck.

Hope this helps. More coming down in the coming days.

 

[wfo9]

It’s a TVS 1320. Same rotor size and type as used in the Eaton supercharger for the Audi V6. TVS is 4 lobe, high efficiency with 160° degrees of twist. Yes the TVS units are all called out in cc’s. A TVS 1320 is 1320 cc per revolution or 1.32 liters per revolution.

Another techy tidbit: they also using the large charge air cooler from the Tundra kit. That is the heat exchanger inside the supercharger, not the one mounted in front of the truck.

Hope this helps. More coming down in the coming days.

Great. TVS is a much improved design. Wonder if it is a R or V series pack...

For those interested in the tech bits... Here is the Isentropic Efficiency maps for the two different TVS rotor packs.

Looks like the V series would be a bit more efficient for this application. I think we would mainly be in the 1.4 pressure ratio and max flow around 400 kg/hr.. Pressure ratio is map in bar... pretty sure 1.4 pressure ratio = ~6psi at sea level...

From Eaton...
R-Series
4 Lobes
High pressure ratio capability of 2.5
Highest efficiency at higher pressure and high speed
Aimed for single boosting device where a lot of flow is needed

V-Series
3 Lobes
High pressure ratio capability of 2.5
Highest efficiency at low pressure and low speed
Aimed for single boosted engines with low end torque need and twin boosted systems to power the low engine speed map