Meguiar's m105, m205 and a random orbital buffer. Advice?

[NJshadow93]

I have a Black and Decker random orbital buffer. It came with a foam applicator and two bonnets. I bought Meguiar's m105 polish and plan to follow it up with m205 that I also bought. I bought an orange pad for the m105 and plan to use the foam applicator for the m205. Does this sound right? Also, I plan to do the whole truck like this, followed by a wax of course. Just want to double check with those who have more experience with this stuff. My truck has lots of light scratches, water spots, and some other blemishes.

 

[2StepsAhead]

M105 on the orange pad is good but I would use the M205 with a white pad, you want a little cut with the 205. Using a foam applicator, depending on firmness, might not have any cut....youre going to induce some marring with the orange / m105 combo and the m205 and white pad should smooth that out.

Polishing by hand is extremely tiresome and usually counterproductive, you need speed/heat to break down polish and make it work. If you need any help let me know, Ill walk you through it.

Heres a 50/50 of my ex gf's paint after one pass:

 

[NJshadow93]

Thanks, I will look for a 6" white pad. I surprisingly couldn't find one online (maybe I didn't look for the right thing?)

 

[Kean]

I have a Black and Decker random orbital buffer. It came with a foam applicator and two bonnets. I bought Meguiar's m105 polish and plan to follow it up with m205 that I also bought. I bought an orange pad for the m105 and plan to use the foam applicator for the m205. Does this sound right? Also, I plan to do the whole truck like this, followed by a wax of course. Just want to double check with those who have more experience with this stuff. My truck has lots of light scratches, water spots, and some other blemishes.

Specifically which B&D model do you have? Also, does it accept hook & loop backed pads? Who is the orange pad made by (i.e. Lake Country, etc.). Colors are not necessarily indicative of firmness or other characteristics across varying manufacturer's/vendors so it would be a good idea to confirm what we are talking about here.

M105 and M205 are good products. ....I use them myself. As 2Step mentioned, M105 will likely leave some micro-marring of its own which will require follow up with a finishing polish like M205. However, my suggestion would be to start with a "test panel" first before committing to the rest of the vehicle.

Pick a panel (like the hood) and tape off a ~1'x1' section using painter's tape. The purpose of this is to provide an area that you can test your tools, products and methods to determine the most effective solution that will meet your expectations. Once you have the right combination dialed in, you will also have a better idea the level of effort and time needed to finish the rest of the car. ....you may even want to reassess your process at that point and compromise (reality vs. expectations). During your testing, you will want to use adequate lighting and/or even pull the vehicle out in direct sunlight. Frequently assessing your progress will help you understand just how well your chosen combination is performing.

I would also suggest that you start with the M205 before trying the M105. Use the least aggressive method necessary to get the job done. In other words, if the M205 is able to provide a finish you are satisfied with, then you have already saved yourself an extra step, time and whatever additional paint would have been removed in the process.

btw, those products you’re using don’t actually break down like diminishing abrasives. Some products work better with rotaries for this reason (speed and heat are used as mentioned to get the full effectiveness from the product). ….that is not the case with these Meguiars polishe. The abrasives they contain will continue to work at least until the carrier oils begin to dry out.

 

[NJshadow93]

Specifically which B&D model do you have? Also, does it accept hook & loop backed pads? Who is the orange pad made by (i.e. Lake Country, etc.). Colors are not necessarily indicative of firmness or other characteristics across varying manufacturer's/vendors so it would be a good idea to confirm what we are talking about here.

M105 and M205 are good products. ....I use them myself. As 2Step mentioned, M105 will likely leave some micro-marring of its own which will require follow up with a finishing polish like M205. However, my suggestion would be to start with a "test panel" first before committing to the rest of the vehicle.

Pick a panel (like the hood) and tape off a ~1'x1' section using painter's tape. The purpose of this is to provide an area that you can test your tools, products and methods to determine the most effective solution that will meet your expectations. Once you have the right combination dialed in, you will also have a better idea the level of effort and time needed to finish the rest of the car. ....you may even want to reassess your process at that point and compromise (reality vs. expectations). During your testing, you will want to use adequate lighting and/or even pull the vehicle out in direct sunlight. Frequently assessing your progress will help you understand just how well your chosen combination is performing.

I would also suggest that you start with the M205 before trying the M105. Use the least aggressive method necessary to get the job done. In other words, if the M205 is able to provide a finish you are satisfied with, then you have already saved yourself an extra step, time and whatever additional paint would have been removed in the process.

btw, those products you’re using don’t actually break down like diminishing abrasives. Some products work better with rotaries for this reason (speed and heat are used as mentioned to get the full effectiveness from the product). ….that is not the case with these Meguiars polishe. The abrasives they contain will continue to work at least until the carrier oils begin to dry out.

I am not home right now but I believe it is Model #: WP900. Thanks for the tips. I have tried Meguiar's Ultimate Polishing compound (whole vehicle) and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound (certain areas), both by hand and they did not do much except for add a little shine. I think I will go right to m105 and follow up with m205. I have light scratches from driving in the woods and some water spot etching. Also, the orange pad I have is the Griot's Garage 6" orange polishing pad.

 

[Kean]

I am not home right now but I believe it is Model #: WP900. Thanks for the tips. I have tried Meguiar's Ultimate Polishing compound (whole vehicle) and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound (certain areas), both by hand and they did not do much except for add a little shine. I think I will go right to m105 and follow up with m205. I have light scratches from driving in the woods and some water spot etching. Also, the orange pad I have is the Griot's Garage 6" orange polishing pad.

I looked up that unit and just on paper it appears to be a fairly docile machine. While perhaps better than doing it by hand, I wouldn’t put too much faith in its effectiveness at correction. They rate it at 4,400 OPM’s (which is relatively low for correction IMO/IME) and while the specs I read don’t provide details as to the power of this machine, it’s safe to say it’s nowhere near other popular DA’s like the PC7424XP, Griot’s 6”, Meguiars G110, etc. Stalling of the head may also be a shortcoming of that B&D unit as a result (many DA’s only have a forced rotation but not a forced orbit). ….the larger 6” pads can also have an effect in this regard (the larger the face of the pad, the more effort/speed needed by the machine to keep it spinning/orbiting). It might be ok for applying waxes/sealants but I would not expect much from it when it comes to polishing/correction.

Having said that, this is all the more reason to try your machine, pads and products on a test section first as I mentioned earlier. Personally, I don’t know if I would want to do a two step polishing process with that machine. ….heck, I typically will try to avoid it with my Flex 3401VRG which is one of the most powerful/effective DA’s you can buy. You might want to start with the M205 and see if you can live with those results before deciding to got the M105>M205 route. In either case, you’ll have a better idea once you have a chance to test things out.

On a side note, I have used Meguiars Ultimate Compound myself and found it to be an excellent product. For a compound, I found it finishes quite well via machine. It’s somewhere in between M105 and M205 in aggressiveness (closer to M205 if you were to put it in a scale) and quite effective. In fact, I've gotten more use out of it than my M105. Btw, UC is made from the same SMAT (non-diminishing; super micro abrasive technology) formulation as the “M” polishes. I might even add that into my initial tests if I were you (assuming you still have it on hand).

I’m guessing by “Meguiar's Ultimate Polishing compound” you actually meant “Meguiars Ultimate Polish”? If so, it’s not really a “compound” in the sense of what most people think that term means. I would say UP is more similar to M205 in abrasiveness and is really a finishing polish. One difference between the two is that UP has a ton of polishing oils. These oils can have the effect of filling or masking light blemishes. If that is your intention, then there is no problem. However, if you want to view the actual level of correction the product is providing, you will need to use a paint-safe solvent, wash, etc. to help remove those oils so you accurately assess your progress. This is essentially true with many polishes but UP is one of those that just happen to have more carrier oils than others.

 

[LittleCaesar]

NJshadow93,

To get the most out of M105/205, you need a good D/A polisher. I'd save your pennies for a Griot's D/A polisher. You can sometimes find them at BJs or even on Amazon for under $100. And they come with a lifetime warranty.
Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital - Griot's Garage

Once you have one, it seems as if you have a general idea on how to get the most of you 4unner's paint. When using a D/A polisher, it is next to impossible to mess up the factory paint. Take your time and enjoy.

Post pics when finished.

 

[treklights]

I have tried Meguiar's Ultimate Polishing compound (whole vehicle) and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound (certain areas), both by hand and they did not do much except for add a little shine.

You didn't get good results because with those products you need to use them with a D/A polisher. You can use them by hand, but the results, as you said, will always be minimal.

Everyone has their own preferences, but I have never been failed by a wash, clay, Meguiar's Ultimate Compound with my Porter Cable 7424XP, followed up with a good quality wax.

If your B&D doesn't work out, the aforementioned Porter Cable is an amazing polisher. The Griot's polisher is also good from what I hear.

Good luck.

If you need some help or more recommendations, hit me up via PM or email (I don't sell any detailing products, just like shiny cars )

Now for some proof that I know what I'm talking about:

My Land Cruiser when I first bought it:

After

 

[NJshadow93]

I appreciate the replies. I will be sure to post pics. I will use my B&D, I received it as a gift and it generally has good reviews. I believe it has a two year warranty. Doesn't look like I'll be able to do it any time soon though, but next warm day I get I'll go for it.

 

[NJshadow93]

So I returned the B&D model a few weeks ago and just ordered the new Griot's Garage Random Orbital Buffer. I figure, as long as I'm driving on or off road, scratches are gonna happen and I'm gonna need something more powerful. Thanks for all the advice, I will be sure to post pics after I detail it. Hopefully the weather will warm up soon.

 

[Kean]

So I returned the B&D model a few weeks ago and just ordered the new Griot's Garage Random Orbital Buffer. I figure, as long as I'm driving on or off road, scratches are gonna happen and I'm gonna need something more powerful. Thanks for all the advice, I will be sure to post pics after I detail it. Hopefully the weather will warm up soon.

The Griots 6" is a good machine. Look forward to hearing/seeing how it works out for you.

I can't stress enough my earlier point about starting with a test panel/section before tackling the whole vehicle. It can really help save a lot of frustration in the long run. Good luck.

 

[Arn24]

[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]

Excellent work! If it wasn't for the windshield wipers, you wouldn't be able to tell the hood from the glass!

Aaron

 

[NJshadow93]

I detailed my sisters car this weekend to practice before doing my 4Runner, hopefully next weekend. I skipped M105 and went with M205. I washed and dried it, clayed it, M205 with my Griot's Garage DA Polisher, and hand waxed with Meguiar's Gold Class Liquid Wax. It's a silver car so you can only get so much reflection out of it, but I think it came out pretty good. Looking forward to doing my truck. I will do M105 on the 4Runner.

Before:

After:

 

[LittleCaesar]

Mike,

The little RAV 4 turned out well. Silver, next to white, can be the hardest color to have "pop" out at you.

I hope you are enjoying the Griots DA. For the price and lifetime warranty, it cannot be beat for getting the job done. Once you get the hang of it, buy a 5 inch backing plate and some 5.5 pads. They will work even better than the 6.5 pads. Just never lose the little washers for the backing plates.

Two things that helps me with M105 is: to have a spray bottle full of water when working in 105. If you start to see dust (it even occurs with the pro detailers), just spray the area you are working on two to three times, then keep working in the product. Also saturate the pad with 105 before using it for the first time; such can help with keeping down dusting and aids in cutting the clearcoat to get rid of scratches, etc.

Post some pics of the 4runner when you are finished.

 

[NJshadow93]

Mike,

The little RAV 4 turned out well. Silver, next to white, can be the hardest color to have "pop" out at you.

I hope you are enjoying the Griots DA. For the price and lifetime warranty, it cannot be beat for getting the job done. Once you get the hang of it, buy a 5 inch backing plate and some 5.5 pads. They will work even better than the 6.5 pads. Just never lose the little washers for the backing plates.

Two things that helps me with M105 is: to have a spray bottle full of water when working in 105. If you start to see dust (it even occurs with the pro detailers), just spray the area you are working on two to three times, then keep working in the product. Also saturate the pad with 105 before using it for the first time; such can help with keeping down dusting and aids in cutting the clearcoat to get rid of scratches, etc.

Post some pics of the 4runner when you are finished.

Got my 4Runner ready to go tonight. Washed and clayed it. Ready for polish and wax tomorrow.

 

[NJshadow93]

So I did it, and it was exhausting. M105 was a pain to work with. A lot of elbow grease was required to buff the residue off and tons of dusting was experienced, even with the spray bottle handy (which did help somewhat).

M205 was such a refreshing experience afterwards because of how easy it is to buff off. All in all, I got the results I was looking for. It did not remove the etched acid rain marks like I had hoped, but it did significantly decrease them, and it removed all my trail scratches too.

Well, enough blabbering, here are the pics:

Before (taken after it has been washed and dried):

After:

~original[/IMG]

 

[Kean]

Please don't take any of this the wrong way but it appears you could have worked the M205 a longer to help get rid of that micro-marring. You can see it in the photo of the hood and in the shot of the tailgate where the sun is directly reflecting. …..good photos by the way which help show the true condition of the finish (which in turn can help folks with the advice they give). Shots in the shade or without a direct point of light are fine for showing some reflectivity, shine, etc. but not for highlighting blemishes (or for showing how blemish-free a finish is).

The shot of the hood also shows a couple of RIDS (random isolated deep scratches) that appear (in this case) as long, straight scratches. Those I wouldn’t worry about too much and will likely take more work with M105 or a different compound. However, all of those short, swirl-like scratches could probably be eliminated with more passes of the M205 and possibly a more aggressive pad depending on what you were using. Some or even most of that more minor marring is likely the by-product of the M105.

If you like M205 and want to try something more aggressive with the same ease of use, I would pick up some Meguiars Ultimate Compound. It finishes quite well for a compound IMO when applied via DA. ….so well that some won’t even follow up with a finishing polish (I do however). If you get some time, do a test spot like I described earlier on the hood (masking a small area) so you can see if it will be worth your time re-doing the whole vehicle. I get the feeling the M105 perhaps got the better of you and you were not able to devote the time/effort you needed with the M205 to get the most from it. M105 is not as easy to work with IMO/IME as some folks may suggest. There are those like you on the various detailing forums who have expressed similar concerns. I too find it a little finicky.

I hope you find some of this helpful.

On a side note, the following is a photo after just using UC on my 2010 Challenger (YMMV depending on a number of variables). Not the best shot but hopefully it’s enough to give you an idea:

Even if it finishes out well, I still think UC leaves the finish a bit cloudy which is why I still use a finishing polish. These pics are a couple of weeks/washes after the car was finished using M205 and a sealant (Wolfgang DGPS 3.0 IIRC):

The paint on my Dodge is what I would say is on the hard side of medium compared to hard clears like some of the GM’s I’ve worked on and super soft paints on something like Subarus. I’m using a Flex 3401 VRG DA which is more powerful than the more popular Griot’s, Meguiars and Porter Cable offerings but the same results can be achieved with those. ….the Flex simply works a little faster.

fyi... I'm going by memory but the first shot I believe was taken with a point & shoot Canon Powershot and the last two were with my Canon T2i which is why the others may look more rich. No post-processing enhancements (like HDR) were made to any of the photos.

 

[NJshadow93]

Yeah the M105 took alot out of me for sure. While I agree there may still be some micro marring, what you're seeing on the hood is a lot of the etched acid rain marks that I could not remove. I do have some Ultimate Compound sitting in the garage. Probably next month when I have more time (out of school) I will give it another go. I definitely want to experiment with more products and pads.

 

[NJshadow93]

Please don't take any of this the wrong way but it appears you could have worked the M205 a longer to help get rid of that micro-marring. You can see it in the photo of the hood and in the shot of the tailgate where the sun is directly reflecting. …..good photos by the way which help show the true condition of the finish (which in turn can help folks with the advice they give). Shots in the shade or without a direct point of light are fine for showing some reflectivity, shine, etc. but not for highlighting blemishes (or for showing how blemish-free a finish is).

The shot of the hood also shows a couple of RIDS (random isolated deep scratches) that appear (in this case) as long, straight scratches. Those I wouldn’t worry about too much and will likely take more work with M105 or a different compound. However, all of those short, swirl-like scratches could probably be eliminated with more passes of the M205 and possibly a more aggressive pad depending on what you were using. Some or even most of that more minor marring is likely the by-product of the M105.

If you like M205 and want to try something more aggressive with the same ease of use, I would pick up some Meguiars Ultimate Compound. It finishes quite well for a compound IMO when applied via DA. ….so well that some won’t even follow up with a finishing polish (I do however). If you get some time, do a test spot like I described earlier on the hood (masking a small area) so you can see if it will be worth your time re-doing the whole vehicle. I get the feeling the M105 perhaps got the better of you and you were not able to devote the time/effort you needed with the M205 to get the most from it. M105 is not as easy to work with IMO/IME as some folks may suggest. There are those like you on the various detailing forums who have expressed similar concerns. I too find it a little finicky.

I hope you find some of this helpful.

On a side note, the following is a photo after just using UC on my 2010 Challenger (YMMV depending on a number of variables). Not the best shot but hopefully it’s enough to give you an idea:

Even if it finishes out well, I still think UC leaves the finish a bit cloudy which is why I still use a finishing polish. These pics are a couple of weeks/washes after the car was finished using M205 and a sealant (Wolfgang DGPS 3.0 IIRC):

The paint on my Dodge is what I would say is on the hard side of medium compared to hard clears like some of the GM’s I’ve worked on and super soft paints on something like Subarus. I’m using a Flex 3401 VRG DA which is more powerful than the more popular Griot’s, Meguiars and Porter Cable offerings but the same results can be achieved with those. ….the Flex simply works a little faster.

fyi... I'm going by memory but the first shot I believe was taken with a point & shoot Canon Powershot and the last two were with my Canon T2i which is why the others may look more rich. No post-processing enhancements (like HDR) were made to any of the photos.

Also, how do you maintain your pads while polishing? It kept getting saturated with product which I feel inhibited performance at times. I have one of those brushes and tried absorbing the excess with some towels at times. Also, the shots of the rear hatch and the hood with the scratches are before shots.

 

[Kean]

Also, how do you maintain your pads while polishing? It kept getting saturated with product which I feel inhibited performance at times. I have one of those brushes and tried absorbing the excess with some towels at times. Also, the shots of the rear hatch and the hood with the scratches are before shots.

I was looking at the hood and tailgate shots in the sun and for some reason thought those were “after” photos. ….sorry about that.

As for the pads loading up, they make spurs you can use that may be more effective but I usually use a balled-up towel with the pad in motion (probably similar to what you were doing). It helps give me a little more time with a pad but to be honest, I usually just swap it out with a fresh one once it gets too saturated. I have quite a few of the each type of pad that I commonly use (Lake Country orange, white and black/gray). I’ll go through several in a full correction and simply wash them at the end. …..tossing soiled/saturated ones in a bucket as I go (I keep one on the side which I usually fill with a cleaning solution so they can soak).

Another option might be to stop and clean the pad on the spot. You might be able to spin-dry it on the DA but it will still be a little damp. My typical suggestion is just to buy more pads if possible. ….at least enough to get you through the session. It’s much faster and easier IMO/IME.