New to me '03 Limited V8, got questions

[Sarge]

Ok, long time lurker from learning mods when I had my '08 Tacoma and lots of ideas here that have applied to other uses. I picked up a 2003 Limited V8 pretty cheap but the previous owner ignored a lot of things that should have been addressed - especially the left side outer tie rod end that was ready to fall off. I got the 4Runner for a replacement for my old '77 Land Cruiser FJ40 - I just couldn't handle riding in that old bucking, rusted out animal any longer due to health issues. Wanted something close to as tough and could last, so far it looks like the T4R will fit the bill. Plus, the GSD seems to like it so far...

Already changed that tie rod end out, as well as a new CV shaft on that driver's side. The steering pump can be a bit weak at times, not sure if it's the pressure control valve for the speed-sensitive steering or what. One thing - the oil that was in it was badly burned and full of sludge. Flushed all of that out and have fixed 2 spots where the return line was not fully onto the pipes when they had the timing belt done. Whoever has previously worked on this thing was a hack - had to replace a ton of broken clips so far around the entire engine bay, it's as if they just didn't care and ripped into it to save time but never bothered to buy $10 worth of new clips. Pretty lame, when I worked at several repair shops we'd never would have gotten away with such shoddy work but these folks that owned the truck didn't seem to know any better.

I still feel like the system is getting air into it - most likely from either the rusty lines or the return side clamps not holding the hoses tightly enough. Has anyone ever put a rebuild kit in one of these stock pumps??

Every single one of the splash guards up front is missing - just how important is it to have those in place? Some vehicles benefit from removing them, others it can cause issues like alternators, which is why I'm asking.

I've already replaced 3 of the exhaust gaskets in the main pipes. Still, have one good leak when the system is cold and I suspect the driver's side exhaust manifold. So, what is everyone's opinion on the best replacement option? I'd really rather not invest into a whole new system right now, just not sure about the track record on the aftermarket tubular manifolds or if they have a high failure rate. I keep my vehicles for a long time and put on a lot of miles - that's why I stuck with a Toyota after selling the old Land Cruiser.

Overall, the condition of this 4Runner is pretty good. Very little rust underneath especially considering it lived in northern Illinois almost all its life. One really odd rust spot is on the rear liftgate - it has a 6" hole rusted clean through the outer metal just to the right of the license plate - have others done that or is it just this odd one?

I sure appreciate any input - the information from the members on this site has been a huge help in getting to know this thing inside and out. I prefer to do all of my own work - after all, I've turned wrenches off/on for the last 40yrs now.

Sarge

 

[Fl_tigers]

Ok, long time lurker from learning mods when I had my '08 Tacoma and lots of ideas here that have applied to other uses. I picked up a 2003 Limited V8 pretty cheap but the previous owner ignored a lot of things that should have been addressed - especially the left side outer tie rod end that was ready to fall off. I got the 4Runner for a replacement for my old '77 Land Cruiser FJ40 - I just couldn't handle riding in that old bucking, rusted out animal any longer due to health issues. Wanted something close to as tough and could last, so far it looks like the T4R will fit the bill. Plus, the GSD seems to like it so far...

Already changed that tie rod end out, as well as a new CV shaft on that driver's side. The steering pump can be a bit weak at times, not sure if it's the pressure control valve for the speed-sensitive steering or what. One thing - the oil that was in it was badly burned and full of sludge. Flushed all of that out and have fixed 2 spots where the return line was not fully onto the pipes when they had the timing belt done. Whoever has previously worked on this thing was a hack - had to replace a ton of broken clips so far around the entire engine bay, it's as if they just didn't care and ripped into it to save time but never bothered to buy $10 worth of new clips. Pretty lame, when I worked at several repair shops we'd never would have gotten away with such shoddy work but these folks that owned the truck didn't seem to know any better.

I still feel like the system is getting air into it - most likely from either the rusty lines or the return side clamps not holding the hoses tightly enough. Has anyone ever put a rebuild kit in one of these stock pumps??

Every single one of the splash guards up front is missing - just how important is it to have those in place? Some vehicles benefit from removing them, others it can cause issues like alternators, which is why I'm asking.

I've already replaced 3 of the exhaust gaskets in the main pipes. Still, have one good leak when the system is cold and I suspect the driver's side exhaust manifold. So, what is everyone's opinion on the best replacement option? I'd really rather not invest into a whole new system right now, just not sure about the track record on the aftermarket tubular manifolds or if they have a high failure rate. I keep my vehicles for a long time and put on a lot of miles - that's why I stuck with a Toyota after selling the old Land Cruiser.

Overall, the condition of this 4Runner is pretty good. Very little rust underneath especially considering it lived in northern Illinois almost all its life. One really odd rust spot is on the rear liftgate - it has a 6" hole rusted clean through the outer metal just to the right of the license plate - have others done that or is it just this odd one?

I sure appreciate any input - the information from the members on this site has been a huge help in getting to know this thing inside and out. I prefer to do all of my own work - after all, I've turned wrenches off/on for the last 40yrs now.

Sarge

I have a weird spot of bubbling on my 08' tailgate in the same exact spot with no other rust on the vehicle (Florida truck). As far and splash guards I would recommend them. I run RadRubber. Maybe $50 a set? I ended up needing a new alternator and am sure it was due to mud and water getting in it.

 

[Syr4RinNC]

Ive had 2 4th gens. The tailgate rust is the worst. The limiteds/ ones with the spoiler seem to do better for whatever reason, but if you're in the north (or likely anywhere) they are gonna rust out, especially around the rear window glass. Replacing it with a clean tailgate/liftgate is your best bet.

 

[Sarge]

The crazy thing about the rear lift gate is the rust hole is just in one 6" spot, nothing else.

I'll have to check out the splash guards mentioned, never heard of them until now.

Thanks,
Sarge

 

[AuSeeker]

The crazy thing about the rear lift gate is the rust hole is just in one 6" spot, nothing else.

I'll have to check out the splash guards mentioned, never heard of them until now.

Thanks,
Sarge

The Rad Rubber guards are great they are thicker than OEM (OEM usually dry rot over time and fall apart thus why most 4th gens are missing them) the Rad Rubber even come with the fasteners, just do a web search for Rad Rubber and you'll easily find their website.

But if you prefer a DYI option there is a PDF floating around on the forum that you can print out the pattern to cut your own out of the material of your choice, you should be able to find the PDF doing a search of the forum, you will of course need to have your own fasteners.

 

[eleven14]

The crazy thing about the rear lift gate is the rust hole is just in one 6" spot, nothing else.

I'll have to check out the splash guards mentioned, never heard of them until now.

Thanks,
Sarge

Several folks have replaced the lower seal on the lift gate to help with water intrusion, the rust is from water getting in and soaking the insulation and with no way out.

The seal is an easy swap and fairly cheap but your best bet is probably sourcing a replacement if it's rusted through.

 

[AuSeeker]

The crazy thing about the rear lift gate is the rust hole is just in one 6" spot, nothing else.

I'll have to check out the splash guards mentioned, never heard of them until now.

Thanks,
Sarge

Several folks have replaced the lower seal on the lift gate to help with water intrusion, the rust is from water getting in and soaking the insulation and with no way out.

The seal is an easy swap and fairly cheap but your best bet is probably sourcing a replacement if it's rusted through.

Just an FYI, the lower outer weather strip/belt, is not designed to keep all water out of the hatch and doors, but mainly designed to keep debri and much of the water from entering and also helps wipe/clear the windows when lowering and raising them, for this reason is why all the doors and hatch has the plastic vapor barrier sheeting between the doors/hatch and the interior trim panels, all of the doors and the hatch have weep/drain holes in the bottom to let any water that does enter drain out, they also have plastic inserts that keeps bugs from entering but still allows drainage, if they get blocked from debri the water can't drain, checking them to see that they're clear and can drain is a good thing to add to your general maintenance schedule.

 

[Timberland]

I don't think there are any known failures with the Doug Thorley headers so far, plus they have a lifetime warranty. Much more reliable than the OEM manifolds.

Rust on the tailgate is strange but very common. Seems like a lot of otherwise clean-bodied 4runners have a bubble or two on the hatch.

 

[smokey73]

I bought a set of the Pacesetter manifolds off Amazon for around $200/ea. The reviews were mixed and most of the bad ones were from people who were just being too picky about silly things. The ones I received were unflawed and fit perfectly. I did use toyota gaskets instead of the ones provided. I replaced mine due to them leaking and I couldn't get rid of the Cat inefficient codes. I can't attest to their longevity yet but so far so good.

 

[Sarge]

Great tips, much appreciated.
I'll look into the pdf file for the pattern - I have some seriously strong high-density plastic that can be conformed to fit almost any shape and it's basically bulletproof. The stuff was leftovers off a HAZMAT job I worked on doing liners in a huge pond that holds an acid-based runoff from contaminating the surrounding area. Unless the fasteners fail, it should easily outlast the truck as it carries a 100yr warranty against failure.
Yeah, I work in some pretty messed up places, lol. Health issues, go figure.

Those manifolds, after looking more closely at them are a joke. I'd assume a thin cast iron, or are they cast steel? Almost would have to be cast steel, or they would shatter they way they are built. I've seen several used ones on Ebay that have been welded, albeit pretty poorly. I do a lot of specialized tig welding here on odd alloys, given the time/place to get the thing on a lift I could fabricate new ones from T-304SS and heavy 4041 flanges. One issue I've always seen with aftermarket tubular manifolds is rust and I live in Illinois - most are not properly cleaned to keep their coating tight enough to withstand our weather/salt issues here. Any corrosion issues with the Doug Thorley setup?

If there is insulation inside that gate - that would explain the rust issue spot. It must be sandwiched against the inside of the sheet metal and created the corrosion. Not kidding, it's completely gone through and the inner layer is just hanging in there - looks pretty ugly on an otherwise good condition truck. I've only found one decent looking gate used and it's knocking on a grand with shipping, ugh.

I already did the dome light mod and added in a pair of the 1N4004 diodes to prevent ground feedback into the rest of the lamps - works great. Map lights work as they should as well as light when unlocking/door open interior system is active. I would very much like to find a source for a gauge lamp feed that works with the stock dimmer to add in an ambient light to that map light panel. The white/soft white one in my Dodge pickup is it's best lighting feature - with my eyesight fumbling around in the dark is a part of life that I hate and that one feature is worth gold to me.

I really have to get the thing inside at my son in law's and work on that dash light mod - I hate not being able to read the gauges they way the bezels are designed. To me it seems like a design error by the electrical engineers or just a simple thing they missed, but for me its a big problem. Almost seems like the daylight sensor for the Auto headlights function needs a cutout relay or something.
I really like the red pointer dots on the gauges, though - adds a nice reference touch to an otherwise black hole on the speedo and tach. During the day, however, I almost can't read that speedometer at all despite the red pointer. Too much surrounding light causes that problem with my eyes - it may as well not be there simply because I can't see it. Been using a speedo app on the phone to monitor highway speed and I generally use the cruise control out in the open anyway.

How much of a difference does 265/70R17 tires make against the stock suspension? Any rubbing/bottoming issues? I'd prefer something slightly taller and more narrow to help with rolling mass - the stock/current Michelin tires are shot and starting to dry rot badly. I'm leaning towards the Toyo ATII as I go offroad a lot on different job sites. An aggressive All Terrain like that performs the best overall on my trucks for work. I had a set on the '08 Taco and they performed excellent and wore like iron - still at 80%+ with 35,000 miles on them when I traded it off.

Been spending a lot of time reading other's builds/mods and generally trying to get to know this new to me T4R - so far, I like it a lot. Never thought I'd own a modern SUV - historically I've always had either pickups or things like the old Cruiser. Still hunting for the clutch every time I get into this thing. Not real fond of the seating position or the height off the floor - but it does not have enough headroom to even run the seat to it's highest setting without hitting the headliner constantly. No idea why they laid it out like that, almost like it's built for smaller/shorter women or something.

Why in the world is the dumb gas pedal buried so far past the brake pedal? My Dodge is the same way and I hate that, about ready to add a 1" spacer behind it to properly position it for driving on both trucks. I use both feet, always have and it's just plain weird having that pedal so far off the other one. Has anyone spaced the pedal out off the firewall ?

Thanks again,

Sarge

 

[eleven14]

Just an FYI, the lower outer weather strip/belt, is not designed to keep all water out of the hatch and doors, but mainly designed to keep debri and much of the water from entering and also helps wipe/clear the windows when lowering and raising them, for this reason is why all the doors and hatch has the plastic vapor barrier sheeting between the doors/hatch and the interior trim panels, all of the doors and the hatch have weep/drain holes in the bottom to let any water that does enter drain out, they also have plastic inserts that keeps bugs from entering but still allows drainage, if they get blocked from debri the water can't drain, checking them to see that they're clear and can drain is a good thing to add to your general maintenance schedule.

Good clarification

 

[Timberland]

Those manifolds, after looking more closely at them are a joke. I'd assume a thin cast iron, or are they cast steel? Almost would have to be cast steel, or they would shatter they way they are built. I've seen several used ones on Ebay that have been welded, albeit pretty poorly. I do a lot of specialized tig welding here on odd alloys, given the time/place to get the thing on a lift I could fabricate new ones from T-304SS and heavy 4041 flanges. One issue I've always seen with aftermarket tubular manifolds is rust and I live in Illinois - most are not properly cleaned to keep their coating tight enough to withstand our weather/salt issues here. Any corrosion issues with the Doug Thorley setup?

I'm looking at the documentation DT sends with the headers right now, and here's what they have to say:

"Any chrome plating applied to the header components is a high-nickel chrome finish applied to retard corrosion. This is a commercial quality "heat" chrome designed to protect the metal from the environment only. This finish is not "show chrome" and is not intended for the sake of appearance. This high-nickel chrome will turn colors and approach black as it cooks into the metal. The initial brilliance of the chrome finish is not covered under the warranty. Contamination of the surface by foreign substances may produce other color patterns. This can be prevented by routine cleaning."

My set of headers are holding up fine, but not exactly show quality given the Canadian climate. I wouldn't say they're corroded, they just have more of a brown stain to them. Hope that helps.

 

[Sarge]

Glad to hear that - beats the old ceramic coatings on older header designs that failed from the inside out, resulting in holes.
Trying not to go the full header route if I can help it - besides, the cost is approaching getting rid of the truck instead. I've been trying to decide on replacement manifold/cat sets, but most look like very cheaply built products for the cost.

Honestly, between frame rust issues and those manifolds - Toyota needs to pony up on this stuff and do the right thing. The previous owner slept on the stupid dash replacement - I could slap them for that one as it's starting to crack pretty good now. Idiots..

Sarge

 

[Montego Murph]

The steering pump can be a bit weak at times, not sure if it's the pressure control valve for the speed-sensitive steering or what.

Sarge,

Have you checked your intermediate steering shaft? That's a known issue on 4th gens. Apparently the U-joints bind up and may account for the "heavy" steering that you're describing.

Murph

 

[Gavin S.]

I bought a set of the Pacesetter manifolds off Amazon for around $200/ea. The reviews were mixed and most of the bad ones were from people who were just being too picky about silly things. The ones I received were unflawed and fit perfectly. I did use toyota gaskets instead of the ones provided. I replaced mine due to them leaking and I couldn't get rid of the Cat inefficient codes. I can't attest to their longevity yet but so far so good.

How much for the install if you don't mind sharing?

 

[Sarge]

That intermediate shaft was one of the first things I checked - it is a little rusty, but not nearly as bad as so many of them out there. I've ran into those before on rack and pinion systems in SUV's - replaced quite a few of them, too. This one is still dead smooth so I just treated it with a non-rust spray and will continue to monitor it closely.

The steering is getting better with time. Plan to flush it again soon and see if any remaining sludge comes out as the Mobil 1 has gotten pretty dark, but not as dark as when I bought the truck. Almost looks like someone topped it off or refilled it with the wrong oil and it wasn't compatible - which lead to burning the stuff. Noise from the pump has almost disappeared completely as well. I do need to go over the lines and replace most of the constant tension clamps - suspect many are not holding the return line tight enough to prevent the pump pulling air into the system.

I really hate the gauge lighting situation. Wish someone could figure out a constant power to those lamps only any time the engine is running and retain the dimmer switch function. My eyes are a serious problem and I've had to use a GPS based speedo app on the phone instead of the factory one that, in most cases, with the brighter background outdoors and the snow its impossible to read. For me, it is like staring into a dark hole, I see no numbers at all. Eventually I'll need transplants to replace my eyes - is what it is but for now, the Dodge is much easier to drive.

Sarge

 

[alia176]

Great tips, much appreciated.
I'll look into the pdf file for the pattern - I have some seriously strong high-density plastic that can be conformed to fit almost any shape and it's basically bulletproof. The stuff was leftovers off a HAZMAT job I worked on doing liners in a huge pond that holds an acid-based runoff from contaminating the surrounding area. Unless the fasteners fail, it should easily outlast the truck as it carries a 100yr warranty against failure.
Yeah, I work in some pretty messed up places, lol. Health issues, go figure.

Those manifolds, after looking more closely at them are a joke. I'd assume a thin cast iron, or are they cast steel? Almost would have to be cast steel, or they would shatter they way they are built. I've seen several used ones on Ebay that have been welded, albeit pretty poorly. I do a lot of specialized tig welding here on odd alloys, given the time/place to get the thing on a lift I could fabricate new ones from T-304SS and heavy 4041 flanges. One issue I've always seen with aftermarket tubular manifolds is rust and I live in Illinois - most are not properly cleaned to keep their coating tight enough to withstand our weather/salt issues here. Any corrosion issues with the Doug Thorley setup?

If there is insulation inside that gate - that would explain the rust issue spot. It must be sandwiched against the inside of the sheet metal and created the corrosion. Not kidding, it's completely gone through and the inner layer is just hanging in there - looks pretty ugly on an otherwise good condition truck. I've only found one decent looking gate used and it's knocking on a grand with shipping, ugh.

I already did the dome light mod and added in a pair of the 1N4004 diodes to prevent ground feedback into the rest of the lamps - works great. Map lights work as they should as well as light when unlocking/door open interior system is active. I would very much like to find a source for a gauge lamp feed that works with the stock dimmer to add in an ambient light to that map light panel. The white/soft white one in my Dodge pickup is it's best lighting feature - with my eyesight fumbling around in the dark is a part of life that I hate and that one feature is worth gold to me.

I really have to get the thing inside at my son in law's and work on that dash light mod - I hate not being able to read the gauges they way the bezels are designed. To me it seems like a design error by the electrical engineers or just a simple thing they missed, but for me its a big problem. Almost seems like the daylight sensor for the Auto headlights function needs a cutout relay or something.
I really like the red pointer dots on the gauges, though - adds a nice reference touch to an otherwise black hole on the speedo and tach. During the day, however, I almost can't read that speedometer at all despite the red pointer. Too much surrounding light causes that problem with my eyes - it may as well not be there simply because I can't see it. Been using a speedo app on the phone to monitor highway speed and I generally use the cruise control out in the open anyway.

How much of a difference does 265/70R17 tires make against the stock suspension? Any rubbing/bottoming issues? I'd prefer something slightly taller and more narrow to help with rolling mass - the stock/current Michelin tires are shot and starting to dry rot badly. I'm leaning towards the Toyo ATII as I go offroad a lot on different job sites. An aggressive All Terrain like that performs the best overall on my trucks for work. I had a set on the '08 Taco and they performed excellent and wore like iron - still at 80%+ with 35,000 miles on them when I traded it off.

Been spending a lot of time reading other's builds/mods and generally trying to get to know this new to me T4R - so far, I like it a lot. Never thought I'd own a modern SUV - historically I've always had either pickups or things like the old Cruiser. Still hunting for the clutch every time I get into this thing. Not real fond of the seating position or the height off the floor - but it does not have enough headroom to even run the seat to it's highest setting without hitting the headliner constantly. No idea why they laid it out like that, almost like it's built for smaller/shorter women or something.

Why in the world is the dumb gas pedal buried so far past the brake pedal? My Dodge is the same way and I hate that, about ready to add a 1" spacer behind it to properly position it for driving on both trucks. I use both feet, always have and it's just plain weird having that pedal so far off the other one. Has anyone spaced the pedal out off the firewall ?

Thanks again,

Sarge

Sarge,
I was just thinking if you can use my OEM manifolds after I switched them out for the DT headers. This is a Southwest rig so they have zero rust. The passenger side did have a slight tick and I think I know where it's coming from. If you can TIG, you should be able to weld these up and slap them into your rig w/o a huge downtime. The cats are in perfect shape, no CELs.

Send me a PM if you're interested and we'll work something out.

 

[Sarge]

I can repair the manifolds I have easily enough - looking for a better design from better materials. Castings that thin have a failure built into them - Toyota should have known better but they did it anyway. While welding them up is an option - it will not fix the problem of the base material being far too thin to prevent it from shattering. Those pipes should have been welded into a single billet piece of steel, not mushroom rolled into a cast flange that is less than 3/8" thick. That design has been tried before and failed miserably.

Sarge

 

[alia176]

I can repair the manifolds I have easily enough - looking for a better design from better materials. Castings that thin have a failure built into them - Toyota should have known better but they did it anyway. While welding them up is an option - it will not fix the problem of the base material being far too thin to prevent it from shattering. Those pipes should have been welded into a single billet piece of steel, not mushroom rolled into a cast flange that is less than 3/8" thick. That design has been tried before and failed miserably.

Sarge

Yup, agreed 100%. The rolled edges are really thin.

 

[smokey73]

How much for the install if you don't mind sharing?

I installed myself. Took about three hours total, not too bad.