wfo9
New member
It would not work....
First problem would be that turns would be very hard to make. Second problem would be the breakage of various parts.
New to Toyota and elockers
- Thread starter bartvonwolf
- Start date
It would not work....
First problem would be that turns would be very hard to make. Second problem would be the breakage of various parts.
nevada
Senior Member
it would still be solidly connected to the left side. thus still bind when turning. it might be SLIGHTLY better than having BOTH axles engaged, but not much. it will still chew up tires, and still push on corners.
not a good idea.
BLACK-FL4RUNNER
Member
How would it be solidly connected on the left side? There is no power being applied vis front driveshaft, so it would be free spinning.
Feels like it would be the same as installing a "lunch box" style locker in the front... No effect in 2wd, but locks when in 4wd.
FordyceCreek
New member
My 1996 Montero has a 10.5" rear ring gear...it aint breaking, yes seen wayyy worse punishment then that. However I run 37's and broke a CV on Fordyce daisy changing a broken rig out this summer, so the front getting a solid axle now. :hungry: Funny, I have always just crawled Potato Salad, dont get it...Now Pritchetts, that is one insane trail these days, its legit. Miss the day when you could wheel it with 31s and a rear LSD though.....oh the memories.
Seriously an ARB is well built, but the air can let you down. It has not stopped me from running a front ARB for decades now. However even the stock Montero locker is more reliable due to its reliance on lower air pressure. I will add to the list solenoids as something that has failed on my ARBs.
BTW, my front ARB would not engage on Cadillac Hill while towing a broken rig up those nasty off camber slabs this summer......Did I mention I forgot to turn the air compressor on?
eep:
Seriously an ARB is well built, but the air can let you down. It has not stopped me from running a front ARB for decades now. However even the stock Montero locker is more reliable due to its reliance on lower air pressure. I will add to the list solenoids as something that has failed on my ARBs.
BTW, my front ARB would not engage on Cadillac Hill while towing a broken rig up those nasty off camber slabs this summer......Did I mention I forgot to turn the air compressor on?
eep:
nevada
Senior Member
because the left axle is being driven by the tire. so any turning is still going to bind up. the driveline isn't part of the equation.
BLACK-FL4RUNNER
Member
In 2wd on the street, it would be un-noticeable right?
In 4wd on the trail it would be locked.
I've driven locked vehicles off road, the steering isn't as good, but you just learn how to drive it.
nevada
Senior Member
you would still notice it in 2wd. the left tire will still be driving the axle. it will bind on turns. it wouldn't be AS bad as if both front axles were engaged, but there would still be binding.
it would be easy to find out, just find someone with a front locker/spool. have them put it in 2wd, and lock one hub. try driving on the pavement and turning sharply. it wont work well....
bartvonwolf
New member
I'm still new to the T4R, so I have to ask, what you mean by "passenger side disconnect"?
Are talking about welding the front end, and essentially disconnecting the front wheels at the hub as if you had manual locking hubs? I would think, that if you did say, have manual locking hubs and you left them disengaged, the front diff would turn, the axles would turn all the way to the hub, but the wheels would have no power going to them so it would essentially act like an open diff up front. Then, when you lock the hubs and engage 4WD, you would be fully locked up front. So yeah, I think on older vehicles this would work in theory.
But if you are only disconnecting one side, I think this would play havoc while one wheel is getting power and the other isn't. I would imagine you would have issues with the AWD system, as well as possibly ABS and whatever other electronics are at play. Not to mention, wear on parts that should not be moving when you are going freeway speeds, etc.
So like I said, I think in theory, on older 4WD vehicles that have open front ends and manual locking hubs and normal running in 2WD with power only to the rear end, you could do this without too much trouble. But on a modern 4x4 with AWD and all the sensors and electronics, I would think this would cause problems.
I also tend to err on the side of caution, especially with a brand new vehicle.
Bart
Are talking about welding the front end, and essentially disconnecting the front wheels at the hub as if you had manual locking hubs? I would think, that if you did say, have manual locking hubs and you left them disengaged, the front diff would turn, the axles would turn all the way to the hub, but the wheels would have no power going to them so it would essentially act like an open diff up front. Then, when you lock the hubs and engage 4WD, you would be fully locked up front. So yeah, I think on older vehicles this would work in theory.
But if you are only disconnecting one side, I think this would play havoc while one wheel is getting power and the other isn't. I would imagine you would have issues with the AWD system, as well as possibly ABS and whatever other electronics are at play. Not to mention, wear on parts that should not be moving when you are going freeway speeds, etc.
So like I said, I think in theory, on older 4WD vehicles that have open front ends and manual locking hubs and normal running in 2WD with power only to the rear end, you could do this without too much trouble. But on a modern 4x4 with AWD and all the sensors and electronics, I would think this would cause problems.
I also tend to err on the side of caution, especially with a brand new vehicle.
Bart
BLACK-FL4RUNNER
Member
The 4Runner has a passenger side disconnect on the front axle. When in 2wd and a welded front diff, the passenger side would get no power and the driver side would simply be turning the front driveshaft. The transfer case is free wheeling, as the front driveshaft is free wheeling in 2wd also...
The YJ wranglers used to do this all the time, as they had the passenger disconnect also. Just wondering if any 4Runner guys have done it yet...
Thanks
The YJ wranglers used to do this all the time, as they had the passenger disconnect also. Just wondering if any 4Runner guys have done it yet...
Thanks
bartvonwolf
New member
OK so, is this a mechanical disconnect or an electronic disconnect? What is the factory purpose for this?
Bart
Bart
BLACK-FL4RUNNER
Member
The passenger side has a factory manual disconnect. It is an electronic servo that moves a slide collar creating a 2 piece shaft. When in 2wd, it probably saves 1 mpg by not spinning the front driveshaft.
Welding the front diff would make the front driveshaft turn when driving in 2wd. But there would be no binding due to the front driveshaft because in 2wd it is disconnected from the transfer case. If you don't believe me, you can spin the front driveshaft while the vehicle is parked in 2wd.
I was just wondering from a strength stand point if someone has already tried this in the 4Runner.
Welding the front diff would make the front driveshaft turn when driving in 2wd. But there would be no binding due to the front driveshaft because in 2wd it is disconnected from the transfer case. If you don't believe me, you can spin the front driveshaft while the vehicle is parked in 2wd.
I was just wondering from a strength stand point if someone has already tried this in the 4Runner.
bartvonwolf
New member
Ok I see. And I am not saying I don't believe you, just trying to understand these new fangled 4x4s. lol Remember, my last trail rig was a 1991 Isuzu Trooper, which is pretty much as basic as they come.
I should have my 2016 Trail Premium before the end of the year. Dealer tells me it arrived in Los Angeles last week. I have no idea how long it takes to get it through customs and up to Reno, but I can't imagine I will be waiting much longer.
Bart
I should have my 2016 Trail Premium before the end of the year. Dealer tells me it arrived in Los Angeles last week. I have no idea how long it takes to get it through customs and up to Reno, but I can't imagine I will be waiting much longer.
Bart
Jetboy
New member
Modified Land Cruiser / Tundra 8.7" front diffs have been retrofit into at least one 3rd gen. They are significantly stronger. And use 36 spline cvs and axles. I don't know much about what it takes to physically bolt one into the same location. But if you wanted something to remain IFS and be pretty strong - that could be an option. I don't know what gearing is available though. I don't think 3.73 is an option. IIRC Tundras only come in 4.10 or 4.30. And there's no 4.10 or 4.30 rear gear options for the OEM 4runner rear axle. So you'll probably need 4.56 to get a common ratio. There are a few vendors that already make unit bearing setups for 6 lug wheels that fit the outer CVs. So you would probably only need to narrow the axle shafts to match and you could build a really strong front diff out of mostly OEM stuff. The ADD is probably even plug and play. Then again - probably cheaper/easier to just add an ARB and go with it.
FordyceCreek
New member
I am always a voice against welding. I even have friends who have done it.
1. Its is amazingly hard to get it right, and usually results in numerous tries and broken parts.
2. You cannot unlock on rock at will
3. You cannot unlock to take stress off the front end
After breaking stuff for awhile a 1K ARB starts to look like a bargain.
1. Its is amazingly hard to get it right, and usually results in numerous tries and broken parts.
2. You cannot unlock on rock at will
3. You cannot unlock to take stress off the front end
After breaking stuff for awhile a 1K ARB starts to look like a bargain.
nevada
Senior Member
I was thinking about this a bit more. I think you might be right, as long as the tcase is in 2wd, then the left tire would be able to speed up/slow down as needed, without causing any issues.
I was going off my experience with front spool, and one locked hub. but it was always when in 4wd..
BLACK-FL4RUNNER
Member
Yeah, in 2wd there would be no binding.
Someday, I'll have to research and tackle this mod! lol
I know they sell a Lokka lunch box style for the front, I just don't know how well behaved on the street it would be. Right now, in 2wd, our front driveshaft is stationary while driving and the spider gears are turning like crazy. With a Lokka, I'm not sure if it would "catch" occasionally and force the drive shaft to turn, or if it would be constantly "clicking".
I've had the lunchbox style in a jeep before, but not with the passenger axle disconnect. It ratched during turns, and was noisey as hell! It worked great though....
I was hoping someone had already welded, or knew if it would hold up to being welded.... lol
Someday, I'll have to research and tackle this mod! lol
I know they sell a Lokka lunch box style for the front, I just don't know how well behaved on the street it would be. Right now, in 2wd, our front driveshaft is stationary while driving and the spider gears are turning like crazy. With a Lokka, I'm not sure if it would "catch" occasionally and force the drive shaft to turn, or if it would be constantly "clicking".
I've had the lunchbox style in a jeep before, but not with the passenger axle disconnect. It ratched during turns, and was noisey as hell! It worked great though....
I was hoping someone had already welded, or knew if it would hold up to being welded.... lol
EEEliminator
Member
The issue isn't with the transfer case with with a welded front differential is it? I would think it would be that the 2 front wheels need a speed differential when turning inboard vs outboard wheel right? Just like the rear with spool, welded rear, or tight posi. This should be an issue regardless of weather or not your in 2wd or 4wd. Am I miss understanding what you're trying to accomplish?
On a side note, anyone put in an OEM locker in the rear on an SR5?
On a side note, anyone put in an OEM locker in the rear on an SR5?
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