Nitrous Enterprises Warning Thread

[sharp4runr]

Fourunnabilly,

You're under a microscope from now on...don't screw up on this forum, i will be watching you very closely! Use ONE name on this forum...follow the forum rules...any deviation from this and you will banned promptly and permanently.

This is your ONLY warning!

Does this mean you're a moderator again, 'cause it sounds like it...

Well I just want to chime in here with my experience with Anthony over emails. He seemed very courteous and always promptly resonded to emails. I couldn't ask for better customer service at all. The thing that got me was the thread at YT. The originator of the thread was also given that great customer service, but never actually received any product just a bunch of empty promises. Well, I've gone through that before and when something like that is said about a company I stay clear of them. Customerservice is not only verbal and email responses, its actually delivering when you say you will. EMPTY PROMISES GETS NOTHING DONE.

So to sum it up, my communication with them was very polite and such but I opted not to buy from them because of the rumour mill. If down the road their reputation chages, then I may have to rething things.

As far as 4Route's involvement, she seemed to always be honest around here and from what I've read at the YT thread. Edge and Thai, I think you should cut her some slack. She's openly coming out here and trying to tell her side of the story. I think she's adequately defending herself and all your accusations mean nothing because they are based on ASSumptions.

July

 

[4route]

and despite all i know now and our relative falling out, i will state the following on Anthony's behalf:

He was/is not doing NE for the money. It was consistently obvious to me that his passion for design and involvement on the "front lines" (so to speak) of 4th gen. prodcuts, Titan products, and Taco prodcuts was what drove him. He does it because he enjoys it and because it makes him happy. So even if one day he decides to bow out (not saying he will, and i would probably never know anyway) I can tell you right now that using the same analogies as you used on me would be just as baseless and incorrect, as far as referring to Martha Stewart's thing or Enron.

i have no problem stating that about Anthony, and i believe that if he can sort out the rest of the issues with the quality, the research and development, the timeliness of shipping, and the honesty issue, then he could have NE going in a very positive direction.

if any of you have any other accusations or implications you'd like to throw at me about my part in NE, go ahead. i will respond to the best of my ability.

that said, i think if anyone is in a business that they no longer feel morally right about being in for whatever reason, then they have every reason and every right to resign. once the trust is broken, there is very little a person can do to gain it back, and no one should be bullied into staying in a situation with which their conscience does not fully agree. it would be bad for BOTH sides.

 

[Guest]

you will all be getting the response you have been waiting on from me tomorrow, you have my word...see you all soon.

AK

 

[Good Times]

If you have time to post here, you have time to explain. Going off to think up some contrived story is lame.

 

[Thai]

He does it because he enjoys it and because it makes him happy.

....the honesty issue, then he could have NE going in a very positive direction.

...once the trust is broken....

Am i the only one who sees that these statements kinda contradict each other???!!

 

[Thai]

I think she's adequately defending herself and all your accusations mean nothing because they are based on ASSumptions.

July

Maybe i am just pessimistic about human nature?? Are my assumptions that ridiculous?? Think about it. Would you believe an Enron exec or Martha Stewart if they said that?? Of course, this is nothing to that scale, but the basic problem is the same.

Put it another way, IF 4route built another business, then would you hesitate a little in giving her your hard-earned money? If you do, then you have a more trusting heart than me.

When a company goes down in this fashion, i don't see that it's JUST ONE individual, especially when that one individual had partner(s).

Just food for thought.

 

[lee]

look, the fact remains that rocky/4route/tracy was the only one over at NE to respond to customer needs in a timely and appropriate manner. she had a lot of faith in NE's ability and im certain that her motivations were pure.

shes always been a nice friendly helpful member of both this board and YT and based on everything ive seen to this point, it does not appear that shes pulling some sort of magic act right now.

please attempt to give her the benefit of the doubt. youre entitled to your mistrust, but clearly you have no direct association with the situation, and to this point the only beacon of light in NE's dark times has been tracy.

 

[Thai]

clearly you have no direct association with the situation,

From reading the threads, i see that BOTH AK and 4route provided decent to excellent customer/lip service...but the end result is the same. So, who do we blame?? Who's the scapegoat?? We have one person that blames another...let's see what AK has to say. I don't know...you tell me who to believe.

As i said above, the real story is still between AK and 4route. I guess that we should believe whatever they say about the situation??!! Did you believe the many Enron execs who said that they were innocent bystanders??

Well, i will get off my soapbox now....

 

[lee]

thats a little extreme. i never spoke to the enron execs prior to the scandal. i have, in fact, spoken with and traded pm's with tracy before and she is a delightful, courteous businessperson.

im just saying, its pretty clear that tracy wasnt there to deceive people out of their money, especially since she didnt get any money out of it.

 

[Thai]

Yeah, i am pessimistic AND paranoid! I need to restart taking my crazy pills....

 

[live4swell]

you will all be getting the response you have been waiting on from me tomorrow, you have my word...see you all soon.

AK

This should be good...finally an explanation. I will get my popcorn ready

 

[sharp4runr]

Maybe i am just pessimistic about human nature?? Are my assumptions that ridiculous?? Think about it. Would you believe an Enron exec or Martha Stewart if they said that?? Of course, this is nothing to that scale, but the basic problem is the same.

Put it another way, IF 4route built another business, then would you hesitate a little in giving her your hard-earned money? If you do, then you have a more trusting heart than me.

When a company goes down in this fashion, i don't see that it's JUST ONE individual, especially when that one individual had partner(s).

Just food for thought.

Thai, I totally see where you're coming as I am an inherent pessimist myself. If anything, 4Route only "crime" was her naivete. I hope she has learned from this experience and everyone is a little wiser for it.

 

[dcampen]

Yeah, i am pessimistic AND paranoid! I need to restart taking my crazy pills....

Funny you should mention this, I was just debating suggesting this ... you're a doc, write yourself a script for some nice mellow pills.

Really, I just don't see the reason for villyfying 4route and these comparisons to Exon executives are off the scale. As far as I can tell NE wasn't cheating people out of money, this wasn't a scam. NE was some guy's home garage business and things aren't working out - he is having problems with quality and delivery times. These things often happen when someone tries to start a small business but for the business to succeed these problems have to be corrected quickly. This hasn't happened with NE. 4route stayed with NE for a while, hoping that the problems would be corrected, again this is a normal business practice, and when she decided it was unlikely that the problems would be corected soon she left the company. I don't see what it is that you think 4route should have done differently.

I am glad for the warnings about NE product quality and business practices, I won't be sending them any of my money. Still, there is no need to be stirring up a tempest in a teacup.

 

[Faeylyn]

As far as I can tell NE wasn't cheating people out of money, this wasn't a scam. NE was some guy's home garage business and things aren't working out - he is having problems with quality and delivery times.

Taking the messages at YT at face value, that's not how I read it. I see these things:

1. Quality problems.
2. Delivery time problems.
3. Lying to customers about delivery time problems.
4. Secretly putting down the competition problems.
5. Multiple screen names to make yourself look better.
6. Creating fake pictures of a non-existing lift.

#1 and #2 can be overcome. #3 is just stupid. Don't tell your customer an item has shipped if it hasn't. Don't KEEP telling your customer that. Once you have burned one customer that way, LEARN THE LESSON AND DON'T DO IT AGAIN. The fact that they couldn't learn that lesson at all and kept doing this over and over is amazing.

#4 is even more stupid. They had no problem comparing their lifts to revtek/daystar, but for the sliders, they sneeked around and put down the competition from another account. If your stuff is so much better, don't have any fear of making a public comparison. And, as far as cheating people out of money, this action very well could be put in that category. #5 can fall into this same category.

#6 is again close to the category of cheating people out of money. A lot of their actions come close to this. A lot of their actions seem to be of the type of not wanting to lose a sale, not wanting to tell a customer that they don't have the product on hand, wanting to take potential sales away from the competition even though they don't have anything to sell.

The first two problems can be fixed. The other problems run MUCH deeper and, IMHO, cannot be fixed. They run to the heart of the individuals. Those actions are simply not acceptable. The people who committed those actions will not hesitate to try them again if they think they can get away with them. Maybe I'm wrong with this analysis, but I don't think so.

 

[Faeylyn]

Regarding 4route, her story is certainly plausible. Some people seem to be hung up on her not saying anything publically until the day she quit. Why? This is exactly what she should have done. You put on a good public face while at the same time try to fix the workings behind the scene. You don't ever publically put down the company while you're working for them. Ever.

Reading through NE posts, it's clear that 4route would defer to others at NE about technical matters and take their word for granted. She would even defend that word without seemingly understanding the technical issues fully. She didn't know about topic X, her boss gave her the answer, she took that answer as gospel. You can say that this was naive and that she probably shouldn't be the one doing the tech support, but that doesn't make it sinister.

Regarding 4route making the 4th-gen spacers, I see that as plausible as well. The other dude is the technical guru. He makes up all the molds. He tests out all the products. He refines the production process until it's just a basic production job. He then offloads that refined process to someone else because someone else can now do it. He then moves on to what he does best - R&D. This is very common in both large and small companies.

I don't know her exact involvement. She could be involved up to her eyebrows. I'm just saying her story is plausible.

 

[EDGE]

Am i the only one who sees that these statements kinda contradict each other???!!

yup, clear as day

what I find weird is 4route knew about all the problems, whatever it be but she still had no idea what was going on,

 

[EDGE]

This should be good...finally an explanation. I will get my popcorn ready

He's probably working on a word document tryin to get his story straight

 

[Thai]

So, bottom line, since 4route claims that she has the stuff to make spacers for the 4th gen...and apparently, she has the know-hows, WOULD ANYONE HERE BUY STUFF FROM 4ROUTE if she offered?? With her apparent knowledge, she should be setting up shop as we speak...there's no reason why she can't do it now that she has split from AK.

So, would you buy stuff from 4route?? Would you send her $$$$ into her paypal account??

 

[Guest]

Well, here is what you have been waiting for. I needed some time to think this through as to what was most appropriate to say regarding all of your concerns and questions. I could go to great lengths to talk about how many things described are incorrect and untrue, but obviously I am the last person any of you will believe so that is a waste of all of our time. Here is what I will say, and that is that, no questions will be answered after this post from me personally again.

Nitrous Enterprises came into being initially over a year ago when I began to build up my 4th gen 4Runner. As I did this many people followed the progress and became very interested. The very first NE products were spacers to add an additional lift height to the front of existing kits that were already on the market, this went great, and you all asked for more. Next came the complete kits as a great new material was discovered and the X-REAS scenario was resolved via the relocs that have been tested by a boeing engineer with more education and background experience in this field that any of you combined could ever attain. NE would not put a product out on the market that we did not believe in, and regardless of your thoughts pertaining to our relocs, they are a bulletproof product with a single doubt. FWIW, I will even go to the extent to tell you all publicly that a couple other companies that you are all very familiar with have been testing different reloc designs for months now, but have been continually forced to redesign and change their product the 15% needed to avoid patenting problems and paying us royalties on every set they sell. I will also state that the initial batch of our spacers were not up to my standards in appearance, but physically got the job done just fine and were just as good in appearance as the other two major coil spacer companies on the market, though we all know appearance means nothing in regards to functionality. 2 weeks were devoted over the holidays to change our current spacer design and improve them in every aspect, essentially turning their appearance into a work of art. These spacers will be circulating very soon, so I am sure you will all see pictures before you know it.

That is about as far as I want to go. In conclusion I feel very bad for the treatment all of you have given Tracy here as she and I have no hard feelings and just have gone our seperate ways. We still continue to communicate, and she will always be held in my highest regards. I do apologize to the yotatech and t4r communities as you have all been turned into victims of the moderators who show no class or respect in how they should be professionally conducting themselves. I follow this sentence with the knowing that I will be the next one to be accused of not handling myself professionally, but I have always existed on t4r soley as fourunnabilly and on yt as fourunnabilly. any other accusations or assumptions are false, though i do not expect any of you to believe this as the moderators are the ones who dictate the environment within these forums, not myself.

And finally, myself as well as everyone else involved with NE wants to thank every single one of you, no matter what you think of us. You all inspired this venture, and for the same reason it now comes to an end. Anyone reading this who has recently placed orders rest assured you will be taken care of to the best of our ability with our new molds and casting system. After that it is back to helping friends and building my own 4Runner again. Thanks again, I wish you all nothing but the best, as that is what you deserve.

Sincerely,

AK

 

[Thai]

I do apologize to the yotatech and t4r communities as you have all been turned into victims of the moderators who show no class or respect in how they should be professionally conducting themselves. I follow this sentence with the knowing that I will be the next one to be accused of not handling myself professionally, but I have always existed on t4r soley as fourunnabilly and on yt as fourunnabilly. any other accusations or assumptions are false,

Actually, AK, you're still a member on this forum (for now)...we have shown much patience with you. Respect that. As far as your multiple usernames on the other forum, i think that people have come to a conclusion already.