No KDSS a deal killer?

[Rushca01]

Looking at 2013 trail that doesn't have KDSS, is it a deal killer without the KDSS? Can I achieve similar handling characteristics of a T4R with KDSS by changing, shocks, springs, and bushings on one that doesn't? This would be a daily driver for me, a radical lift is out of the question so I would be aiming for a custom lift like Canazes9 did.

 

[nosamk]

So you want one without KDSS? I'm a bit confused by the question.


I have KDSS on mine and have ICON stage 2 suspension. For me the KDSS really shines in corners on the road.....on/off ramps, etc. little to no body roll. that makes it worthwhile if nothing else in my mind....

 

[Rushca01]

I prefer one with KDSS, but I found a trail without KDSS for a good deal would you let the no KDSS be a deal killer.

 

[Jeff M]

I prefer one with KDSS, but I found a trail without KDSS for a good deal would you let the no KDSS be a deal killer.

Having just got a Trail with KDSS, I'd say yes, IMHO, it's a deal killer.

 

[Canazes9]

So you want one without KDSS? I'm a bit confused by the question.


I have KDSS on mine and have ICON stage 2 suspension. For me the KDSS really shines in corners on the road.....on/off ramps, etc. little to no body roll. that makes it worthwhile if nothing else in my mind....

He's saying he found a really good deal on a TE w/o KDSS and wondering whether he should buy or pass. He's planning on a lift similar to mine.

I have no KDSS experience to speak of. My wife's SR5 (like a non-KDSS TE) felt soft, wallowy and miserable with the stock suspension. I am extremely pleased with on and off road performance with my Icon lift. Body roll and nos dive are dramatically reduced. For what it's worth, I don't plan on buying KDSS when we buy a TE in about 18 months...

David

 

[Rushca01]

He's saying he found a really good deal on a TE w/o KDSS and wondering whether he should buy or pass. He's planning on a lift similar to mine.

I have no KDSS experience to speak of. My wife's SR5 (like a non-KDSS TE) felt soft, wallowy and miserable with the stock suspension. I am extremely pleased with on and off road performance with my Icon lift. Body roll and nos dive are dramatically reduced. For what it's worth, I don't plan on buying KDSS when we buy a TE in about 18 months...

David

Thanks David. When you ordered your springs could you have gotten them stiffer? If you could would you want them any stiffer than they are now. I may be using the wrong lingo here as I am new to this.

 

[Canazes9]

Thanks David. When you ordered your springs could you have gotten them stiffer? If you could would you want them any stiffer than they are now. I may be using the wrong lingo here as I am new to this.

You can order them any way you want them.

Most of the perceived softness in the 4Runner suspension is from the front coils. The rear coils were designed to handle a moderate load and as such they really don't feel too soft.

The front Icon coil over springs are stiffer than stock - how much I don't know. The rear Icon springs are not supposed to be stiffer than stock, just lift springs. If you install the way the front/rear are delivered from Icon you should have ~2.5" lift in front, 2" in rear. The front to rear height difference is unchanged - just lifted.

When you do what I did, and lift the front ~2.125" and the rear 0.75" it does shift the weight balance of the vehicle slightly to the rear (which is fine, because the weight is biased towards the front to begin with). Shifting weight to the rear makes the rear coils feel softer (because they are carrying a greater percentage of the total weight). You can add spacers to the rear coil to get the same height, but the rear is going to still feel soft because of the leveling effect.

The rear coils on my 4runner were intended to restore that taught balanced feeling lost due to leveling and adding the stiffer Icon coil springs up front. I consulted with both Icon and Deavers before I ordered anything and listened to their recommendations. The coils are 1/2" taller than stock and 15% higher spring rate, yielding 0.75" total lift in the rear. I think the balance between handling, ride and load carrying capability is perfect and I wouldn't change a thing for this type of lift. I made a camping road trip to Big Bend with a buddy this past year and we were LOADED! We had 4 large bags hardwood firewood, 72 qt ice chest full, bags of groceries, drinks, propane, stove, heater 10x14 Canvas Kodiak tent (heavy!), cots, sleeping bags, chairs, tables, gear bags, extra boots, camera gear, hiking backpacks, sticks, a partridge and a pear tree!

The rear sank about 1.5" fully loaded with a full tank of gas. We ran Black Gap road, river road west in the national park, some minor scenic trails in the state park and the road to Chorro Vista all without incident or handling like a bloated overloaded pig.

HTH

David

 

[splash101]

What is the good deal?

 

[Rushca01]

33,900. 2013 with 7900 miles and was a dealer demo.

 

[AirspeedX]

My 2012 TE has no KDSS. I've never driven a KDSS equipped rig but I was still quite impressed with the feel during turns at moderate speeds. I plan on adding an Icon suspension in a few months (when I decide I NEED one).

Doesn't bother me at all by not having KDSS though. If I want to corner at high speeds, I'll hang a knee out on my bike.

Plus you'll never see me posting a "Will this mod work with KDSS" thread.

I say if the deal is there - go for it.
If the deal isn't there - get kdss since you're forking out the same money anyway.

 

[splash101]

33,900. 2013 with 7900 miles and was a dealer demo.

How much under sticker price is that? Is it a TE premium? Believe some members have purchased new standard TEs with KDSS for 36-37 K. Better to buy stock/warrantied than try to achieve similar with mods.

 

[eddiebx]

33,900. 2013 with 7900 miles and was a dealer demo.

Only you can decide if it's a deal killer or not, but this sure does not sound like a killer deal, lol.

 

[Go JayBee]

When I bought my 2012 TE, I didn't even know what KDSS was. Looked into it further and decided it might be a good thing. Now that I have it, I won't look back. Love it!!!
As others have stated, it makes the 4Runner handle like a little Honda in the curves. Awesome!!!!

 

[Maz]

33,900. 2013 with 7900 miles and was a dealer demo.

No offense intended Rush, but considering your numbers above I think that's a poor deal in fact. There have been at least two people who've gotten very strong deals lately as an example.

yssttk wrote three days ago "I just picked up a (new with 70 miles) 13TE in Silver with KDSS and Nav for 36.5." Yesterday jan23r1 wrote "i just bought my '14 te w/kdss (and NAV) for just under 36k with 6 miles on it 2 weeks ago and it wasn't even during toyotathon. hendrick toyota can give you some really good deals occasionally."

Granted there is a $2,100. and $2,600. price differential between their prices and yours. However IMHO that's peanuts for 8,000 less miles on a NEW vehicle for yssttk, and a mere $500. additional pop going up to jan's 2014.

I bought a new '13 TE with NAV and KDSS for $36,750. in November, and lucked into a $2,000. rebate from Toyota to boot. There are still other deals out there, you just may have to widen your search and be willing to travel.

Check cars.com and autotrader.com with a "all miles" search. Then start making calls / Emails to dealers and tell them what your "friends" paid, and see what they'll do. If you get a hot deal see if it's within feasible travel range.

For example my rig was about 500 miles away. A quick cheap flight up, and a tank and a half of gas back the same day. No big deal. Hoss went a lot farther, from Austin, TX to San Diego. However he was set on a TE in Mag Grey, and that was the closest one for a hot price.

The short version is I think you're assuming you can't buy new based on sticker prices....NOT the selling prices that can be made if you're shrewd and flexible as to location of purchase.

Good Luck!

 

[Maz]

Duplicate Post Removed

 

[Rushca01]

I understand people get better deals but we have to remember location...Are they in the middle of snow states with snow on the ground currently? I have a feeling pricing goes up a tad in the snow states during the winter. There are two trails within 200 miles of me that have less than 10,000 miles and neither dealer is being aggressive.

 

[1engineer]

I understand people get better deals but we have to remember location...Are they in the middle of snow states with snow on the ground currently? I have a feeling pricing goes up a tad in the snow states during the winter. There are two trails within 200 miles of me that have less than 10,000 miles and neither dealer is being aggressive.

Location is good for real estate purchase. Timing is good for vehicle purchase. They can be mixed or matched sometimes but not often. Buying a 4X4 in January in a snow belt is probably not the best time. If you can, wait until April near the end of month. If you can really wait then hold out til summer. If you can really really wait hold out til November end of month.

 

[ic0517]

My 2013 TE is stock, (except the mats, thanks for the tip on the Huskies whoever that was), no KDSS, and it is not the most pleasant sensation going through a clover leaf. Like I said when I was driving my F150, if there is a speed limit on a ramp, obey it. I don't think you can find a new TE in Illinois Toyota dealer with KDSS, they would have to get it from some place.

I agree with Maz, that does not sound like a particularly good deal.

Sure would be nice to be able to drive the two and compare.

If my 2013 was to get totaled, and now that I have had one for a year, I would go to the dealer and ask for them to find a new one in red and with KDSS, and have them deliver it to my locale, and pay the price.

Back when I bought mine, there was a red one with KDSS in like Moline. I googled the VIN and I could tell it came from another state. But I was not liking the idea of agreeing on a price, flying or driving with a trade in, then have the sob back out or up the price, or sell it before you could get there.

And yes dealers sell it before you get there, I would too, someone on the phone who says they are going to show up or somebody with a checkbook and a pen, which would you choose?

Couldn't tell you about TE or TE premium. Premium have heated seats? Sure would have been nice this month.

 

[Jeff614]

I'm in the same boat myself with this decision. Looks like the closing date on my house has been pushed back till mid-March and with it my 4runner purchase. Maybe it'll be a good thing as snow will be over by then with spring around the corner.

I've yet been able to test drive either a new or used KDSS equipped 'runner, but recently a dealer gave me a standard trail for an entire afternoon test drive and honestly I was pretty pleased with the handling.

KDSS will probably come down to price for me, likely having to go used to get it. That being said I think I would opt for a standard '14 trail over a used one with KDSS. The new interior, and to me at least, front end make it worthwhile.

Being in NOVA I'm counting on some amount of travel for my purchase and keeping am my fingers crossed for a '14 with KDSS for around 35-36k. Otherwise it's standard for me.


- Jeff

 

[BigredTEX]

A couple of observations / comments:

I have a TE w/out KDSS. Neither I nor the dealer knew anything about KDSS when I was purchasing so it wasn't an issue at the time. I also took delivery with the OME lift already installed, so I never drove it without the lift, but I did driver an SR5. Even with the softest springs offered by OME the ride is stiffened significantly over stock, so handling is pretty tight. Can't say what it would be with KDSS. I've never missed it. I just purchased some sway bar quick disconnects for off-road, so again, not having KDSS is not an issue for me.

As for location and price, here in Texas a TE is hard to find and dealers will not budge much, if at all. As I said, I purchased mine with the lift, wheels and tires and UCA's. The dealer wanted $8K for the mods. I was able to negotiate down to $3.5K, which was a very good price for the parts and labor, but they would not budge on the actual sticker price of the truck. At the time it was the only TE in the state and one of three in the entire 5 state region.