Oil indicator light after routine oil change

eddiebx said:
If I may ask, what do you feel Toyota should do in this situation in order for you to be fully satisfied? Replace your engine with a new one? Give you a written lifetime engine warranty on any lubrication related failures? Buy back the vehicle and give you a new 4runner?

Unfortunately events like this happen because we are all human, and there's never going to be a 100% satisfactory resolution if both sides do not want to compromise. IMO, in this situation, all you can really do is accept a resolution which is reasonably accommodating given the circumstances. From what it sounds like, the OP's dealer is doing just that or at least trying to make it right.

Regarding your statement about if the engine threw a rod tomorrow you would be covered under warranty anyway--I am not so sure that is going to be the case at all. If you bring in your brand new 4runner with a blow motor and Toyota deems that you ran the engine without oil which caused the catastrophic failure, I highly doubt they will be making a good will engine replacement on their dime due to your negligence. This is where your allegedly worthless letter from the dealer would come in handy; you have on the record that the dealer is taking full responsibility for running the engine without sufficient oil.
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Point taken about the letter for an immediate engine failure. I still would not be satisfied. As was mjohns2 suggested I would try to get them to extend the warranty. The actual cost to the dealership can't be over $1000, and is likely 1/2 that. That is reasonable.

David
 
The simple, bulletproof answer to any potential down-the-road problems is a Toyota Extended Warranty, note:"Genuine Toyota".

Get the longest one there is, as it transfers, and is (prorated) refundable.

This will protect you anywhere you go or move, and simply eliminates further issues. Peace of mind imo.

My WAG is that dealer cost is probably half of retail. So, your dealer could sell it to you for half with absolutely no true financial loss. If it were me, I'd start by asking for this for free, and negotiate as far as splitting their cost.

My .02

ps: Almost against my better judgement, I bought one for cheap, and it just paid for itself times two.
 
eddiebx said:
If I may ask, what do you feel Toyota should do in this situation in order for you to be fully satisfied? Replace your engine with a new one? Give you a written lifetime engine warranty on any lubrication related failures? Buy back the vehicle and give you a new 4runner?

Unfortunately events like this happen because we are all human, and there's never going to be a 100% satisfactory resolution if both sides do not want to compromise. IMO, in this situation, all you can really do is accept a resolution which is reasonably accommodating given the circumstances. From what it sounds like, the OP's dealer is doing just that or at least trying to make it right.

Regarding your statement about if the engine threw a rod tomorrow you would be covered under warranty anyway--I am not so sure that is going to be the case at all. If you bring in your brand new 4runner with a blow motor and Toyota deems that you ran the engine without oil which caused the catastrophic failure, I highly doubt they will be making a good will engine replacement on their dime due to your negligence. This is where your allegedly worthless letter from the dealer would come in handy; you have on the record that the dealer is taking full responsibility for running the engine without sufficient oil.
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OK, After all is said and done. I am not angry at all, just don't want any damage to my vehicle as I plan to keep it for a LONG time.. I have a print out documenting that it is completely their fault and that the vehicle was driven with only 1 quart of oil (or less) and that they will take responsibility. They would like for me to bring the vehicle back in 1000 miles to test the oil however when I backed out of my driveway this morning on a cold start there was a loud knock. I have left message with service manager and awaiting call back, my drive to work was uneventful.
I REALLY appreciate everyone's input and the knowledge shared. I will look into the oil test as well, I think it will be good to have that verified by a 3rd party.
Thanks so much everyone!!
 
jmek13 said:
OK, After all is said and done. I am not angry at all, just don't want any damage to my vehicle as I plan to keep it for a LONG time.. I have a print out documenting that it is completely their fault and that the vehicle was driven with only 1 quart of oil (or less) and that they will take responsibility. They would like for me to bring the vehicle back in 1000 miles to test the oil however when I backed out of my driveway this morning on a cold start there was a loud knock. I have left message with service manager and awaiting call back, my drive to work was uneventful.
I REALLY appreciate everyone's input and the knowledge shared. I will look into the oil test as well, I think it will be good to have that verified by a 3rd party.
Thanks so much everyone!!
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Do you mean a loud knock as soon as you started accelerating backwards and hit the brake? I get that from time to time and I think most of the people here do too. It seems to be more apparent when your steering wheel is turned too. I think it's probably normal and nothing to be alarmed at. A rhythmic knocking that varies with engine speed is something you should be concerned about :)

Kudos to the dealer for actually suggesting an oil analysis after 1000 miles, sounds like you are in good hands. I hope all goes well at your next check up!
 
Sorry, but I don't put much value in the oil analysis route in OP's circumstance. PLEASE, let's not start an oil analysis debate.

What are the possible outcomes?

- Analysis is "OK". Dealer will say "no harm, no foul, the analysis proves it". Where the H3LL does that leave you?

- Analysis is not OK. What happens next? Who decides what? Anything in writing? I see this route as inconclusive at best. It's just dragging the issue out.

Regardless of the dealer's "letter", it holds no real weight. Should things get ugly down the road, you may have to take them to court. I admit, I do not trust dealers.

If you're lucky, that "knock" is a precursor to something definitive.

My rule-of-thumb, were I in these circumstances, would be CYA - now, not later.
 
philsey said:
Sorry, but I don't put much value in the oil analysis route in OP's circumstance. PLEASE, let's not start an oil analysis debate.

What are the possible outcomes?

- Analysis is "OK". Dealer will say "no harm, no foul, the analysis proves it". Where the H3LL does that leave you?

- Analysis is not OK. What happens next? Who decides what? Anything in writing? I see this route as inconclusive at best. It's just dragging the issue out.

Regardless of the dealer's "letter", it holds no real weight. Should things get ugly down the road, you may have to take them to court. I admit, I do not trust dealers.

If you're lucky, that "knock" is a precursor to something definitive.

My rule-of-thumb, were I in these circumstances, would be CYA - now, not later.
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Why don't you put any value in a UOA? Spill it Phil, so we can debate this in more detail :argue: :jk:

That's a real good point you made though, I really never looked at it from that perspective in that the dealer is just covering their own behinds.

I don't trust dealerships one bit either, not even to rotate my tires, lol. The moment my sales person told me about Toyota Care, I knew that I would be forging those two "free" oil changes, and doing it myself.
 
I agree with Philsey, I would talk to the dealer about getting you setup with the Toyota Extended Warranty at dealer cost.

They really aren't out anything, you get factory extended warranty at a steal and now you have no problems as you have piece of mind, and they shouldn't fight you on it since it won't cost them anything. It sounds like your engine is fine, I imagine you would know by now if something didn't feel right.
 
I agree with philsey. I would not get an oil analysis done. What if it comes out good than the dealer can use this against you.

Better to just get an extended warranty and have the dealer document this and call it a day. If something fails its going to be a piston rod bearing sort of failure and it will be easy to determine it was caused by oil starvation.
 
I'm calling B.S.

If true...show us the letter.

I agree that starting the engine -5 qts of oil would maybe not kill it. However, the valvetrain would be all out of whack as soon as any load was applied. The VVT-i uses oil presure to function. I'm only guessing that one of our engines would have all the bells and whistles screaming upon any engine load applied withot oil in the sump.

Old engines continue to run when low on oil, yet the valvetrain really starts tapping when the pressure starts dropping. In my unfortunate (brother in-law) experience.
 
So as stated above the dealer has some automated oil fill system. Don't they (as a routine part of good maintenance) run the engine, verify oil pressure, check for leaks and then check the oil level before returning the vehicle to the customer? If they skip steps to save time on warranty work, what else are they doing - or not?
 
Biggcrisp said:
If true...show us the letter.

I agree that starting the engine -5 qts of oil would maybe not kill it. However, the valvetrain would be all out of whack as soon as any load was applied. The VVT-i uses oil presure to function. I'm only guessing that one of our engines would have all the bells and whistles screaming upon any engine load applied withot oil in the sump.

Old engines continue to run when low on oil, yet the valvetrain really starts tapping when the pressure starts dropping. In my unfortunate (brother in-law) experience.
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Pressure is not a function of volume. As long as there is enough volume to fill the passages and not starve the inlet there will be pressure. You have no idea if the valvetrain "would be all out of whack" because you, like me, have no idea how much oil was left in the sump. Even if we did, neither you or I have a clue how much oil is necessary over a short period of time. Your opinion is just like mine except I design this stuff for a living.
 
I said I was guessing after all

1engineer said:
Pressure is not a function of volume. As long as there is enough volume to fill the passages and not starve the inlet there will be pressure. You have no idea if the valvetrain "would be all out of whack" because you, like me, have no idea how much oil was left in the sump. Even if we did, neither you or I have a clue how much oil is necessary over a short period of time. Your opinion is just like mine except I design this stuff for a living.
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Your opinion is just like mine except I hire engineering firms for a living. There are plenty of folks running around our geographic areas with low oil pressure issues. I'm just happy we are ok.
 
1engineer said:
Pressure is not a function of volume. As long as there is enough volume to fill the passages and not starve the inlet there will be pressure.
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Yes that's true, but oil sloshing around in a mostly empty pan has a way of only allowing an intermittent oil supply. The idiot lights in these vehicles are slow to detect intermittent oil starvation as you accelerate/brake/corner/etc.


1engineer said:
You have no idea if the valvetrain "would be all out of whack" because you, like me, have no idea how much oil was left in the sump. Even if we did, neither you or I have a clue how much oil is necessary over a short period of time. Your opinion is just like mine except I design this stuff for a living.
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You admit you don't have a clue about what happened and that you are engaging in raw speculation like everyone else commenting on this post, yet seem to feel that your opinions are more valid (even though you admitted you are clueless and guessing).

In summary you don't have a clue - but your opinion is more valid.

Fascinating.

Please tell me more about the stuff you design for a living and how doing so enables you to form a more valid opinion than others when you don't have a clue.

:D

David
 
flyrv9 said:
So as stated above the dealer has some automated oil fill system. Don't they (as a routine part of good maintenance) run the engine, verify oil pressure, check for leaks and then check the oil level before returning the vehicle to the customer? If they skip steps to save time on warranty work, what else are they doing - or not?
Click to expand...

I'm sure they do, but as in most every other endeavor the human being is the weak link. Probably, someone got in a hurry, got distracted by multiple customers at once, etc.

David
 
Canazes9 said:
Yes that's true, but oil sloshing around in a mostly empty pan has a way of only allowing an intermittent oil supply. The idiot lights in these vehicles are slow to detect intermittent oil starvation as you accelerate/brake/corner/etc.




You admit you don't have a clue about what happened and that you are engaging in raw speculation like everyone else commenting on this post, yet seem to feel that your opinions are more valid (even though you admitted you are clueless and guessing).

In summary you don't have a clue - but your opinion is more valid.

Fascinating.

Please tell me more about the stuff you design for a living and how doing so enables you to form a more valid opinion than others when you don't have a clue.

:D

David
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Sending you a pm....
 
^^I know right?

tumblr_lthuek2WlC1qm3y1j.gif
 
OP,

In the end, I really believe that it is more then fair and reasonable for the dealership to pay to extend your warranty to the max possible. If You already have the max possible, I would ask them to charge me their price and refund me the difference. It really is about half the price of what they charge us.

It's nice that they will give you a letter, but that letter does not guarantee that Toyota will stand behind it. That is a letter from the dealer to you. It's as if I owned a franchise of Toyota dealerships. I break your car and I promise to fix it for the next 10 years. I go out of business, sell ownership, in 2 years then that leaves you out because the agreement was between me and you.

I guess the best proof would be to take that letter to another dealership and tell them you heard a loud knock when backing up from your driveway. I know they'll look at the letter, but ultimately, they'll look at the car and any repairs under the warranty.
 
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