Orlando Attack...ISIS claims it!

[-JD-]

Of course the Europeans have been burying their heads in sand.

They have an open door policy, no border patrol and they don't even vet those coming in.

The Paris attacks were carried out by migrants and EU citizen children of migrants who used the open borders to come and go without being tracked.

They shot 435 people in the streets of Paris. Only 100+ died but the rest were pretty messed up. An AK round is devastating to the human body.

So it really is quite simple. Don't take in people when you cannot verify their background. If it cannot be verified then they can't come here. No problem. They can go to Canada instead, or Europe or Africa or Antarctica. Just not here.

I don't support a religious test but I do want to know who people are when they enter the country.

Btw I truly believe I am speaking the popular opinion on this issue. Americans do not want strangers just entering this country. I'm practically a liberal compared to what the right is saying. I bet if you polled Democrats you would find that tightening immigration rules so there is MORE SCRUTINY is vastly popular among even Democrats.

I dont think anyone is advocating for an open borders policy. My point was more that for EU countries to actually secure their borders would be not only costly and nearly impossible (look how much America spends and people still get in), but would be restrictive to economic activity as well. I'm not denying they have issues, but like I said I think the problem is coming up with a practical effective solution. What percentage of terror attacks are even commited by foreign citizens? In the US I believe its less than 20%, isn't it?

This logic is so flawed. So America should take in foreign people's because if we don't then they MAY become radicalized? Yeah that makes about as much sense as jumping into oncoming traffic.

What moral obligation does America have to take in people who otherwise MAY become radicalized? ZERO.

Well we have bombed their schools, hospitals, woman and children. Destroying their homes and leaving them no place to go. I'm not advocating for an open borders policy, or letting unproven people in. I agree that the solution is not to empty the middle east in to Europe or America. But I'm not prepared to label entire countries as terrorist and exclude those looking to flee from ISIS or from western bombing.

 

[Thai]

What percentage of terror attacks are even commited by foreign citizens? In the US I believe its less than 20%, isn't it?

Well we have bombed their schools, hospitals, woman and children. Destroying their homes and leaving them no place to go. I'm not advocating for an open borders policy, or letting unproven people in. I agree that the solution is not to empty the middle east in to Europe or America. But I'm not prepared to label entire countries as terrorist and exclude those looking to flee from ISIS or from western bombing.

20% since when? Since Civil War? Since 10 years ago?

Like ndcent ladder argument, when should we be concern? Wait till it is 50%? 100%? 20% not high enough for you? What is with liberals and their percentages?!!!

Those refugees...you sure that they are that way because we bombed them? You sure that it is not due to Muslim vs. Muslim fighting (Sunnis vs. Shiites)?

What is your solution? Generous border policies have done well for the Europeans, no?

 

[ndcent]

20% since when? Since Civil War? Since 10 years ago?

Like ndcent ladder argument, when should we be concern? Wait till it is 50%? 100%? 20% not high enough for you? What is with liberals and their percentages?!!!

Those refugees...you sure that they are that way because we bombed them? You sure that it is not due to Muslim vs. Muslim fighting (Sunnis vs. Shiites)?

What is your solution? Generous border policies have done well for the Europeans, no?

What's up with people and their perspective, facts and numbers? That's gay.

Let's let our fear fuel rampant xenophobic behavior and kill em all!! America!!!

 

[wadle5]

What's up with people and their perspective, facts and numbers? That's gay.



Let's let our fear fuel rampant xenophobic behavior and kill em all!! America!!!

Another senseless and worthless post. Quit using buzz words and making absolute bogus statements. Seem to be steering away from your neutral stance you adamantly proclaimed.

 

[ndcent]

Another senseless and worthless post. Quit using buzz words and making absolute bogus statements. Seem to be steering away from your neutral stance you adamantly proclaimed.

I don't know where you're getting this "neutral" thing from. Is it when I remarked recently a moderator should be neutral? You know I'm not a moderator, right?

That's for engaging me some more, btw. :hello:

p.s. xenophobia isn't a "buzzword."

 

[concrete_boots]

My rant

Why talk about banning guns and not face the real issues? Why put the blame on the AR-15 ? Stop AR-15 sales and we will have no more terror attacks ? I don't think so..also, It's not an 'Assault Rifle' it's an Automatic Rifle, just like you drive an automatic car..if this terrorist piece of shit used a knife to kill people would it then be called an assault knife and be ban from all kitchens ?
What must the death toll be for Americans to regain their liberties? 100?, 1,000? How many must be innocently killed untill we are given back our freedom and 2nd amendment rights as instituted by the US constitution ? When will the blind & lying politicians stop stripping us of our rights and admit the truth..that the government can not properly protect every single person and at some point we must realize it is our our responsibility to protect ourselves and our families !?
Better to have one when needed then to be looking for it when we are under attack !
Liberty or Death. Make America Great Again

 

[Thai]

What's up with people and their perspective, facts and numbers? That's gay.

Let's let our fear fuel rampant xenophobic behavior and kill em all!! America!!!

Hey ****ing *******,

Maybe you need to talk about your ladder theory again here...those are facts and perspective too, right? Give us some numbers...ladder deaths vs. terrorist deaths. You came up with this right after Paris attacks. This is yet another opportunity for you to spread your ignorance...oh wait, i mean "facts & perspectives."

I am very interested. Enlighten us.

 

[wadle5]

I don't know where you're getting this "neutral" thing from. Is it when I remarked recently a moderator should be neutral? You know I'm not a moderator, right?

That's for engaging me some more, btw. :hello:

p.s. xenophobia isn't a "buzzword."

You actually said you were neutral as well. . . .as xenophobia is absolutely a buzzword. Thank you for interrupting what was a logical discussion with your posts again :hatsoff:

 

[ndcent]

You actually said you were neutral as well. . . .as xenophobia is absolutely a buzzword. Thank you for interrupting what was a logical discussion with your posts again :hatsoff:

Every chance I get for Thai to type "libtard" to further this "logical discussion."

I'm sorry you don't understand what a buzzword is, though. :hatsoff:

 

[Thai]

Every chance I get for Thai to type "libtard" to further this "logical discussion."

Hey ****ing *******, i knew that you like that term!! I will gladly comply with your request. :rockon: Never say that i don't do enough to support your viewpoints.

 

[nevada]

^ Wasn't the shooter US born?

Also, isn't there significant risk that leaving these moderate Muslims no where to go they too will become radicalized?

but then they wouldn't be "americans", and therefore NOT protected by our constitution. they would then in fact be our enemy, and to be engaged appropriately.

Good article. But I think that tends to highlight the fact that this dude wasn't isis. I've heard some interesting points on NPR lately. I also wasn't surprised that this guy may have been a patron of that club and potentially gay himself. Either way, based on talking points, this guy had a very poor understanding of Isis and related terrorist groups and cultural implications/conflicts with them. Likely a disillusioned dude who found some sort of belonging or comfort on radicalized websites.

The question is, does it matter? Probably not because the end result is the same and you can really call it semantics. But there's still a big difference between a dude that is trained and infiltrated by isis over some guy who falls in with the wrong crowd and decides he wants to act. Either way this guys mental state was prime for Isis online recruitment.

Ultimately I can argue scary similarities amongst some red blooded American groups. The 3 percenters? This is my issues with guns, and I'm a card carrying multiple gun owner. An (probably) overwhelming majority of gun owners are responsible citizens. But then there's the guys who are self professed special forces, ready for a made-up war with the govt. And the dudes I'm thinking about are the clowns who had negligent discharges standing outside of recruiter offices. And I've been to enough ranges to see people doing stupid shit with weapons. Social media inbreeding pools all these people together and they just fester on the same ideology and radicalize themselves.

maybe just "some guy, that is until you take his parent into account. specifically his father.

Well we have bombed their schools, hospitals, woman and children. Destroying their homes and leaving them no place to go. I'm not advocating for an open borders policy, or letting unproven people in. I agree that the solution is not to empty the middle east in to Europe or America. But I'm not prepared to label entire countries as terrorist and exclude those looking to flee from ISIS or from western bombing.

like women and children?

who is determining if they are actually refugees? the FBI? the same FBI that let this guy purchase a gun?
we(our government) is either unable, or unwilling to actually do that work, to determine who is safe to bring into this country, and who isn't. if that cant happen, they should not be allowed in.

My rant

Why talk about banning guns and not face the real issues? Why put the blame on the AR-15 ? Stop AR-15 sales and we will have no more terror attacks ? I don't think so..also, It's not an 'Assault Rifle' it's an Automatic Rifle, just like you drive an automatic car..if this terrorist piece of shit used a knife to kill people would it then be called an assault knife and be ban from all kitchens ?

just a minor contention. an assault rifle IS an automatic rifle.
however, and AR is neither of those. the media likes to incorrectly use the term assault rifle to make it seem worse. it IS a buzzword.

also, just incase anyone doesn't know AR stands for Armalite Rifle. the originator of that design. it does not, and has never stood for assault rifle. that is a made up term.

 

[rossgoldie]

but then they wouldn't be "americans", and therefore NOT protected by our constitution. they would then in fact be our enemy, and to be engaged appropriately.

maybe just "some guy, that is until you take his parent into account. specifically his father.

like women and children?

who is determining if they are actually refugees? the FBI? the same FBI that let this guy purchase a gun?
we(our government) is either unable, or unwilling to actually do that work, to determine who is safe to bring into this country, and who isn't. if that cant happen, they should not be allowed in.

just a minor contention. an assault rifle IS an automatic rifle.
however, and AR is neither of those. the media likes to incorrectly use the term assault rifle to make it seem worse. it IS a buzzword.

also, just incase anyone doesn't know AR stands for Armalite Rifle. the originator of that design. it does not, and has never stood for assault rifle. that is a made up term.

The Brady Campaign admitted last year that they made up the term "Assault Rifle"

 

[Thai]

The Brady Campaign admitted last year that they made up the term "Assault Rifle"

Dang, for a long time, i thought Brady Campaign meant "Aroma Rectus" when they mentioned "AR." My bad.

 

[Blue15]

The Brady Campaign admitted last year that they made up the term "Assault Rifle"

They anti-gun love making up crap. Channel surfing I heard this liberal California D-Jackie Speers say on c-spam there has been "182 mass shootings in the last 162 days". What a lying scum bag!

 

[cfranck1]

Sorry, but I enjoyed him immensely!!

 

[-JD-]

US bombing is only responsible for a fraction of a percent of the displaced or killed people in the middle East.

The vast 99%+ of killings are from religious strife and civil war.

The Obama administration has kept the gloves on. They wouldn't even bomb the truck routes Isis was using to smuggle oil into Syria until the US first dropped leaflets warning everything.

Do you have a source to back up that 99+% stat? I feel like that may be a rectally derived statistic.

 

[-JD-]

What is with liberals and their percentages?!!!

I do this weird thing where it's important for me to quantify things and assess them in a logical manner. To avoid the false equivalencies that seem rampant in many people heres logic, and arrive at fact based rational conclusions rather than emotionally driven over reactions that don't address the realities of the issue. ( ie. When someone starts making up statistics or name calling you can bet they are emotionally invested in the issue and those people generally don't arrive at rational logical conclusions).

 

[Thai]

( ie. When someone starts making up statistics or name calling you can bet they are emotionally invested in the issue and those people generally don't arrive at rational logical conclusions).

Strange...the only ones making up statistics is ndcent with his stupid ladder analogy and you.

Thanks for advice. Good to know this about YOU. :hatsoff:

 

[ndcent]

I love the fact you guys like Carlin.

 

[-JD-]

Strange...the only ones making up statistics is ndcent with his stupid ladder analogy and you.

Thanks for advice. Good to know this about YOU. :hatsoff:

I didn't make up anything. In fact I stated it in the form of a question, but I do believe it to be accurate from an article I've read in the last few days. Was ndecents stat made up? You also missed the ONE I was actually referring to. Not sure if that's ignorance or intentional oversight.

Btw you did not provide any statistic when you implied the US is -bombing all of them-

We aren't bombing all of them. And here's some information for you.

The number of displaced people, mainly from Islamic religious strife has now exceeded 50 million.

Put that in perspective then next time someone tries to blame the US for everything middle East related. 50 million people have had to flee their homes.

They are not fleeing the United States. They are fleeing violent religion.

Number of displaced people worldwide exceeds 50 million: UN report

I never said the us was responsible for bombing all of them. But coalition bombing plays a huge part. As does the history of Western presence in the middle East. Remember sadaam? My point was more that it isn't the 99+% stat u stated. Isn't not quoting a statistic better than making one up?