Orlando Attack...ISIS claims it!

[-JD-]

 

[-JD-]

^Who is the name calling in the first comment referring to?

Good information about gays and Islam, but I"m not sure of the point you are getting at?

The pew research gives a good overview of radical ideas in the Muslim world:

The World?s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society | Pew Research Center

 

[-JD-]

I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying really, the only thing I disagree about is that part of the solution entails a complete ban on immigration.

 

[ben550]

I agree about staying out of other countries business

Says the Canadian arguing about what America should do or not do...

 

[ndcent]

Says the Canadian arguing about what America should do or not do...

"Yeah, JD. Coming from a country with a tiny fraction of the gun deaths America has, we don't want your worthless input!"

 

[ThorInc]

Says the Canadian arguing about what America should do or not do...

Hey, we are merely sharing a world view, not ramming it down your throat!

 

[cfranck1]

I'm sorta missing the cell phone debates lately!! :nono::hiding:

 

[wadle5]

I think the point that keeps getting ignored, is the actual historical statistics. No guns doesn't make it safer. Look at Paris, look at Timothy McVeigh...heck look at Chicago. By disarming citizens you are empowering the individuals that don't obey the law in the first place.
To legally obtain an assault rifle you have to have a class 3 license, have approval from local law enforcement, and pay in excess of $10,000. And that doesn't include the weapon.

Again the problem is not the weapon as there are over 4 million LEGAL gun owners with more than 20 million weapons?

Again dismissing the facts that more die by knives, baseball bats, gun free zones, birth control and fists in a year.

 

[wadle5]

Hey, we are merely sharing a world view, not ramming it down your throat!

I don't think it is in fact a world view, as other countries with gun bans are now seeing the problems that come with it( ie.France). Since Australia has they have had an increase in homicide of 3.2% and armed robbery is up 44.8% But wait how can criminals have weapons if they are banned? And thus in lies the problem believing that taking guns away will stop gun violence.
In reality the safest European country is Switzerland where every household is required to have a pistol/rifle for self defense.

 

[Hepar]

In reality the safest European country is Switzerland where every household is required to have a pistol/rifle for self defense.

No, Switzerland does not require every household own a gun. And they actually have more strict gun control laws (including an automatic firearm ban) than we do.

How Switzerland Developed a Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com

 

[AntleredRuin]

I just find it...convenient that most of the places that get shot up (ISIS or not) are 'gun-free zones'.
Clearly, the shooters are aiming (pun intended) for areas where people can't legally fight back.
So simply NOT having 'gun-free zones' would cut back on the amount of shootings.

Movie theaters, night clubs, army bases, Paris, etc. If the general populace is packing, the shooters would think twice. It's easy to pick a fight when you know you're the only one with the weapons.
Why do you think bullies pick on the weak? It's not because they're looking for a fair fight.

 

[wadle5]

No, Switzerland does not require every household own a gun. And they actually have more strict gun control laws (including an automatic firearm ban) than we do.

How Switzerland Developed a Gun Culture That Works | TIME.com

Again you are ignoring the posts that it is illegal here to own M4A1 and other fully automatic firearms were banned by the Federal government in 1986?

And actually as the article states, they did require ownership until recently. Only thing changed now is no ammunition provided by the military cannot be kept in your own house, but you can have privately purchased ammunition. Now you just have the older generation teaching the younger ones proper control and handling of the weapon. The laws and regulations over there actually look easier to obtain if you read up on Switzerland's Weapons Law and Weapons Act?

And look they still have over 300 homicides a year. . . again no matter how safe the country is the human element will always deter what were initially thought to be good intentions.

Again from your own article:
"“Social conditions are fundamental in deterring crime,” says Peter Squires, professor of criminology and public policy at the University of Brighton in Great Britain, who has studied gun violence in different countries and concluded that a “culture of support” rather than focus on individualism, can deter mass killings."

That article literally counters your pasts posts?

 

[wadle5]

I just find it...convenient that most of the places that get shot up (ISIS or not) are 'gun-free zones'.
Clearly, the shooters are aiming (pun intended) for areas where people can't legally fight back.
So simply NOT having 'gun-free zones' would cut back on the amount of shootings.

Movie theaters, night clubs, army bases, Paris, etc. If the general populace is packing, the shooters would think twice. It's easy to pick a fight when you know you're the only one with the weapons.
Why do you think bullies pick on the weak? It's not because they're looking for a fair fight.

Again these details are easier to ignore than to come to terms with. If this were true it would completely derail the idea of gun-free zones=safe zones.

 

[Hepar]

Actually as the article states, they did require that until recently. Only thing changed now is no ammunition provided by the military cannot be kept in your own house, but you can have privately purchased ammunition. Now you just have the older generation teaching the younger ones proper control and handling of the weapon.

And look they still have over 300 homicides a year. . . again no matter how safe the country is the human element will always deter what were initially thought to be good intentions.

Again from your own article:
"“Social conditions are fundamental in deterring crime,” says Peter Squires, professor of criminology and public policy at the University of Brighton in Great Britain, who has studied gun violence in different countries and concluded that a “culture of support” rather than focus on individualism, can deter mass killings."

That article literally counters your pasts posts?

Um, it actually helps support my previous posts in that I've been saying gun training is one of the most important things to gun ownership.

And what is Switzerlands homicide rate when compared to ours? Oh yeah. 1/5th.

You used Switzerland as an example above as a model for us to use? I am 100% on board. Are you saying you are too?

 

[AntleredRuin]

Again these details are easier to ignore than to come to terms with. If this were true it would completely derail the idea of gun-free zones=safe zones.

Because common sense and basic safety always take second stage to name calling and buzz words.

I agree with one of Hepar's earlier posts that technically, if the people in FL were packing, the shootout could have possible been more deadly (friendly fires, confusion, etc). But what about simply preventing the shooting in the first place?

The bully approaches you because you look small and weak, but then you pull out your Glock? The bully will think twice about attacking. No shots fired, and no one hurt.

 

[BrianSD_42]

The Obama Doctrine: What the President Actually Thinks About Radical Islam - The Atlantic

This article was interesting. If those really are Obama's beliefs then I agree.

The president does not suffer illusions about the pathologies afflicting the broader Muslim world.

Over the course of many conversations with Obama about the Middle East, terrorism, Islam, and the role of religion in fomenting extremist behavior, I’ve developed at least a partial understanding of his thinking on these subjects. Suffice it to say that I find neither the right’s nor the left’s interpretations of Obama’s policy and rhetorical predispositions to be particularly satisfying or comprehensive.


Obama, in my reading, does not—contra his right-leaning critics—suffer illusions about the pathologies afflicting the broader Muslim world. If anything, his pessimism on matters related to the dysfunctions of Muslim states, and to the inability of the umma—the worldwide community of Muslims—to contain and ultimately neutralize the extremist elements in its midst, has, at times, an almost paralyzing effect on him. The president has come to the conclusion (as I outlined in my recent Atlantic cover story, “The Obama Doctrine”) that the underlying problems afflicting Islam are too deep, and too resistant to American intervention, to warrant implementation of the sort of policies that his critics, including his critics in foreign-policy think tanks, demand.

I agree with this. The problems of these countries are so deeply rooted in religion and culture that it is not possible for the west (America or whomever) to fix. We can't fix Iraq because the problem is the culture. We can't fix _____ country because the problem is the culture.

When I say culture I do not mean all Muslims in the world or America. Clearly there are millions of peaceful Muslims in America. I'm sure people on this forum know many. If you live in a city then you must know a few. But the larger picture, the problems with Islam effecting society in Islamic countries are enormous and we should not waste a single breath thinking we can change or influence those cultures. In fact nearly 20 years of failed wars in the middle East proves this to be true.

I always think back to The Girl In The River. If you have HBO (Go/Now) then watch it. It is only 30 minutes and it won an Oscar for Best Short Documentary in 2016.


<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Gk2OcKVu8qU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe

:bat:

 

[ThorInc]

I don't think it is in fact a world view, as other countries with gun bans are now seeing the problems that come with it( ie.France). Since Australia has they have had an increase in homicide of 3.2% and armed robbery is up 44.8% But wait how can criminals have weapons if they are banned? And thus in lies the problem believing that taking guns away will stop gun violence.
In reality the safest European country is Switzerland where every household is required to have a pistol/rifle for self defense.

Woahhh.......my comment that you quoted had jack to do with making more firearm laws and everything to do with ben550's post that I quoted and this thread about ISIS......someone(?) added to this thread re. gun availbility and ownership but to be clear, I totally support the US second amendment and see zero need for more firearm laws or restrictions.

Sorry, could not have you speak for me or should I saw mis-speak for me.

 

[wadle5]

I agree with this. The problems of these countries are so deeply rooted in religion and culture that it is not possible for the west (America or whomever) to fix.

And that is the problem they are experiencing in France and Belgium. They are so deeply rooted in their religion that they believe their religious beliefs and actions are justified overrides the countries they are in current justice system.

So basically in short his foreign policy is turn our backs to the middle east, and hope they don't stab us(or in this case shoot us or blow us up)? If that is the case then the best offense is a strong defense, but he has been decreasing that budget as well.

 

[wadle5]

Woahhh.......my comment that you quoted had jack to do with making more firearm laws and everything to do with ben550's post that I quoted and this thread about ISIS......someone(?) added to this thread re. gun availbility and ownership but to be clear, I totally support the US second amendment and see zero need for more firearm laws or restrictions.

Sorry, could not have you speak for me or should I saw mis-speak for me.

You actually quoted him about your statements and beliefs being the general consensus of how the rest of the world views the US. So sorry if you mispoke or if it wasn't clear?

 

[ThorInc]

You actually quoted him about your statements and beliefs being the general consensus of how the rest of the world views the US. So sorry if you mispoke or if it wasn't clear?

I guess your ability to mis-speak for me is either intentional or due to a closed mind, carry on.