The shooter was engaged by an off-duty police officer outside prior to barricading himself inside. Sorry, more guns would not have helped here.
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Orlando Attack...ISIS claims it!
- Thread starter Thai
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The shooter was engaged by an off-duty police officer outside prior to barricading himself inside. Sorry, more guns would not have helped here.
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trovergraywilson
New member
For what it's worth: politics, religion, ideology, and other differences aside, this is the latest in a long line of tragedies that, in many ways, seem preventable. I've worked in healthcare in Chicago for a while and we see other sides of violence like this. It destroys marriages, families, communities, etc. Hope we can find better ways to fix this problem going forward.
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ndcent
New member
FAIL: Bill Rejected By The GOP 6 Months Ago Would Have Stopped Florida Shooter From Gun Purchase
FAIL: Bill Rejected By The GOP 6 Months Ago Would Have Stopped Florida Shooter From Gun Purchase
Damn Obama.
FAIL: Bill Rejected By The GOP 6 Months Ago Would Have Stopped Florida Shooter From Gun Purchase
Damn Obama.
wadle5
New member
Nice. . .solid reliable blog.........
But in all honesty, you can't blame the GOP for not passing a bill for this guy. Because you also must take into account that he was under FBI investigation more than once, and he still was deemed "not a threat". So yes when Obama goes into a conference and blames gun control for this with no mention of his religious beliefs, and the shooter calling in and claiming to be a part of ISIS, is why I believe members continue to put Obama on blast for this. While it could be a peaceful religion, the radicalization that is going throughout these members of this religion and now chalking up "The highest fatality act of domestic terrorism" under their belt shows how serious of a problem this is. Trying to play it off with that small 4% "statistic" is sad. You should explain that to all of the victims and families that it really isn't THAT bad. He had a history of problems, not guns. To blame the gun for the shooter is covering up the true problem.
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LandCruiser
New member
Muslim terrorist who pledges allegiance to ISIS shoots up a gay nightclub after ISIS states they will start a worldwide campaign of bloodshed to correlate with Ramadan.
NRA's fault.
Ban all the "weapons of war."
NRA's fault.
Ban all the "weapons of war."
ndcent
New member
"Sorry" you're uncomfortable with the "statistics" from the FBI "database."
wadle5
New member
Really that is your only response to everything else that was brought to attention. . .I guess just because it is 4% doesn't mean they don't account for a large amount. Although this most recent shooting and 9/11 were some of the highest casualty occurences they only count as 2 instances. It's for this reason I take "statistics" with a grain of salt on how it was actually calculated. Where is your link for that FBI stat?
To break down that 4% you quoted and put into context:
Sept. 11, 2001 – Nineteen al-Qaida terrorists hijacked four American passenger planes in a coordinated attack on U.S. soil. Nearly 200 Americans were murdered by the terrorists who hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 and flew it into the Pentagon, collapsing its western side. Meanwhile, two other planes, American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175, were flown into the North and South towers of the World Trade Center in New York City. Both 110-story towers collapsed, killing 2,752 people. A fourth plane, United Airlines Flight 93, was flown by terrorists diverting the flight to Washington, D.C. However, passengers fought the hijackers, and the plane crashed in a field near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, killing 40 passengers.
Feb. 16, 2002 – Muslim snipers Lee Boyd Malvo and John Allen Muhammad kill Keenya Cook in Tacoma, Washington. The snipers would kill 21 more people in a crime wave that stretched from coast to coast.
March 19, 2002 – Jerry Ray Taylor, 60, is shot by snipers Lee Boyd Malvo and John Allen Muhammad at a Tucson, Arizona, golf course.
Sept. 5, 2002 – Paul J. LaRuffa, 55, is shot and wounded by snipers Lee Boyd Malvo and John Allen Muhammad in Clinton, Maryland, in the parking lot of his restaurant.
Sept. 14, 2002 – Muslim snipers Lee Boyd Malvo and John Allen Muhammad wound Rupinder “Benny” Oberoi, 22, outside a liquor store in Silver Spring, Maryland.
Sept. 15, 2002 – Snipers Lee Boyd Malvo and John Allen Muhammad would Muhammad Rashid, 32, outside a liquor store in Brandywine, Maryland.
Sept. 21, 2002 – Snipers Lee Boyd Malvo and John Allen Muhammad kill Million A. Woldemariam, 41, outside an Atlanta, Georgia, liquor store. Snipers also kill Claudine Lee Parker, 52, outside a liquor store in Montgomery, Alabama. The snipers shot Kellie Adams, 24, in the neck as she approached a liquor store in Montgomery, Alabama, where she worked.
Sept. 23, 2002 – Snipers kill Hong Im Ballenger, 45, outside a beauty store in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. They also kill James D. Martin, 55, outside a supermarket in Wheaton, Louisiana.
Oct. 3, 2002 – Snipers kill James L “Sonny” Buchanan, 39, while he mows a lawn near a car dealership in White Flint, Maryland. Premkumar A. Walekar, 54, is murdered while he pumps gas at a station in Aspen Hill, Maryland. The snipers kill Sarah Ramos, 34, as she sat outside a shopping center in Silver Spring, Maryland. They also murder Lori Lewis Rivera, 25, while she vacuums her car at a Shell gas station in Kensington, Maryland. While she attempts to cross a street in Northwest Washington, Pascal Charlot, 72, is shot and killed by the snipers.
Oct. 4, 2002 – Snipers wound Caroline Seawell, 43, as loads her car with her purchases in a Fredericksburg, Virginia, store parking lot.
Oct. 7, 2002 – Snipers wound 13-year-old Iran Brown outside a Nejamin Tasker Middle School in Bowie, Maryland.
Oct. 9, 2002 – Snipers kill Vietnam veteran Dean H. Meyers, 53, while he pumps gas in Manassas, Virginia.
Oct. 11, 2002 – Snipers kill Kenneth H. Bridges, 53, as he pumped gas at a station near Massaponax, Virginia.
Oct. 14, 2002 – Snipers kill Linda Franklin, 47, in a Home Depot parking lot in Falls Church, Virginia.
Oct. 19, 2002 – Snipers wound Jeffrey Hopper, 37, while he walks with his wife in a restaurant parking lot in Ashland, Virginia.
Oct. 22, 2002 – Snipers kill Conrad E. Johnson, 35, a bus driver standing in the doorway of his bus in Aspen Hill, Maryland.
Aug., 6, 2003 – The Muslim son of a Saudi millionaire, Mohammed Ali Alayed, 23, slashes the throat of an estranged Jewish friend, Ariel Sellouk, killing and nearly decapitating the man in Houston, Texas.
Dec. 2, 2003 – A Jewish man, Joseph Applebaum, suffers from a swelling of the stomach that is easily diagnosed and treated. He was identified as Jewish on the front of his medical chart. But instead of receiving treatment, he is left to die by his Muslim doctor.
April 15, 2004 – Fearing that his brother had molested his wife and daughter, Muslim man Ismail Peltek killed his wife by bludgeoning her on the head with a hammer and attacked his 22- and 4-year-old daughters with a knife. Peltek, 41, told investigators, “I was afraid that my family’s honor was taken.” He said he attacked his 4-year-old because he worried that she had been “sullied” by a gynecological exam, according to the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle, which reported that both daughters suffered fractured skulls. Investigators asked him, “if you had the opportunity to kill the family again, would you?” Peltek replied, “My female family, yes. My male family, no.”
January 2005 – Somali immigrant Mustafa Mohamed, 30, slashes and injures six people at a retirement home in Alexandria, Virginia. One resident required 200 stitches. Another suffered a broken neck. A judge rules Mohamed is not guilty by reason of insanity.
March 3, 2006 – Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, an Iranian-American seeking to “avenge the deaths of Muslims worldwide” and “punish” the U.S. government, intentionally runs down and injures nine people with his sport utility vehicle on the campus of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He pleaded guilty to nine counts of attempted first-degree murder and was sentenced to 33 years in prison.
June 16, 2006 – A 62-year-old Jewish man, Paul Schrum, who had gone to the movies to see “X-Men: The Last Stand” in a heavily Jewish area near Baltimore, Maryland, is shot by Muslim gunman Mujtaba Rabbani Jabbar, 24. Jabbar shot Schrum three times in the upper body, walked into the lobby, placed his gun on a counter and waited for police.
June 25, 2006 – Michael Julius Ford, a 22-year-old convert to Islam, uses a long-barrel handgun to shoot four co-workers and a police officer at a Denver, Colorado, Safeway, claiming the attack was “Allah’s choice.” One person died in the shooting spree. When Ford fired at police, he was shot and killed.
July 28, 2006 – Muslim Pakistani man Naveed Afzal Haq shot six women, killing one, at the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle building in Seattle, Washington. Haq grabbed a 14-year-old girl and used her as a hostage during the attack. Officials classified the attack as a “hate crime” rather than terrorism.
Jan. 1, 2008 – Egyptian-born cab driver Yaser Said shoots and kills his two daughters in Irving, Texas, because they were dating non-Muslim boys. The daughters had run away from home a week earlier, fearing their father would kill them.
July 6, 2008 – Muslim Pakistani man Chaudry Rashid, 56, strangled his 25-year-old daughter in Jonesboro, Georgia, after she said she wanted out of an arranged marriage. Police said the daughter, Sandela Kanwal, had argued with her father about the arrangement of her marriage to a man in Chicago. An officer explained, “At some point during the altercation, he ended up killing his daughter.”
Feb. 12, 2009 – Pakistani-American Muzzammil Syed Hassan was the CEO of the first American Muslim TV network broadcast in English, Bridge TV. Hassan beheaded his estranged wife, Aasiya Zubair, after she filed for divorce. Her body was found at the TV station. When he was arrested, he said he “felt an incredible amount of relief” after he killed the woman.
April 12, 2009 – Upon learning that they had patronized a strip club, a Muslim man shoots and kills his brother-in-law and another man in Phoenix, Arizona.
June 1, 2009 – In a drive-by shooting, Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad – a convert to Islam who had traveled to Yemen and was deported to the U.S. for overstaying his visa – opened fire on U.S. soldiers standing in front of a Little Rock, Arkansas, recruiting office. Muhammad killed one private and injured another. When he was arrested Muhammad explained that he had planned to kill as many soldiers as possible and was given the assignment by Al-Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula.
November 2009 – Iraq-born Muslim man Faleh Hassan Almaleki, 48, intentionally hit his daughter with his car and killed her because she had become “too Westernized.” He also attacked the mother of the girl’s boyfriend. Police said, “It occurred because [of] her not following traditional family values. He felt she was becoming too westernized, and he didn’t like that.” His daughter had backed out of an arranged marriage.
Nov. 5, 2009 – Muslim gunman Nidal Malik Hassan, an Army psychiatrist, fatally shoots 13 people and wounds 30 others at Fort Hood, Texas.
Dec. 4, 2009 – A Muslim graduate student from Saudi Arabia, Abdulsalam S. al-Zahrani, stabbed his non-Muslim Islamic studies professor, Richard T. Antoun, to death to avenge “persecuted” Muslims. One of his roommates said, “He was all the time shouting in Arabic, shouting threats, insulting his country for no reason.”
April 14, 2010 – A Muslim convert, James A. Larry, 33, became angry that his family would not convert to Islam and shot his mother, pregnant wife, infant son and two nieces in Marquette Park, Illinois. He pleaded guilty to multiple counts of murder, attempted murder and the intentional homicide of an unborn child. “He was upset at his wife and their family — he felt disrespected that they would not join his religion,” Assistant State’s Attorney Jim McKay said. “It didn’t matter if they were young or old, pregnant or not. He wanted them dead.” Larry also shot his 13-year-old nephew in the face, but the boy survived. When the man was arrested, he told officers Allah told him to kill his family, according to court records. According to a police report, he said, “I wish I had more bullets. I wish I had more bullets.”
April 30, 2011 – Rahim Abdul Alfetlawi, 46, shot his step-daughter in the head at point-blank range in Warren, Michigan, after she refused to strictly adhere to Muslim customs. The family claimed the motive was not religion.
Sept. 11, 2011 – Three Jewish men are discovered in Waltham, Massachusetts, with their throats slit from ear to ear and nearly decapitated. Authorities believed the murders were not random, and thousands of dollars in cash and marijuana were left at the scene. According to reports, authorities believe Boston Marathon bombers Tamerlan Tsarnaev and his younger brother, both Muslims, may have been responsible for the triple homicide.
Jan. 15, 2012 – A Jordanian Muslim man, Ali Mahwood-Awad Irsan, 57, gunned down Iranian medical student, Gelareh Bagherzadeh, a friend of his daughter and a Christian convert who widely denounced Islam. He later killed his Christian son-in-law after his daughter married him without permission. Assistant Harris County District Attorney Tammy Thomas told a district judge, “He said, ‘I killed that b–ch, and you’re next. No one insults my honor as a Muslim and gets away with it.'”
Feb. 7, 2013 – Yusuf Ibrahim, 28, shot two Coptic Christians to death and beheaded them in Buena Vista, New Jersey. He also removed their hands before burying their bodies in the backyard of an abandoned house. Quran 8:12 states, “When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers’ hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!”
March 31, 2013 – Reshad Riddle walked into an Ashtabula, Ohio, church and fatally shot his father after an Easter service. After the shooting, witnesses say, walked through the church holding the gun and shouted that the slaughter was “the will of Allah. This is the will of God.”
April 15, 2013 – Muslim Chechen brothers Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and Tamerlan Tsarnaev detonate two pressure cooker bombs during the Boston Marathon, killing three people and injuring an estimated 264 others. After the bombing, they killed an MIT policeman, stole an SUV and exchanged gunfire with police. Tamerlan was shot and his brother drove over him with the stolen SUV. Tamerlan was pronounced dead at the scene. After a manhunt, police found Dzhokhar hiding in a boat in a man’s backyard. Dzokhar has been sentenced to death.
Aug. 4, 2013 – A Muslim convert, Daymond Agnew, 34, went to an Ace Hardware store on a “mission from Allah to help people” before he fatally stabbed employee Daniel Joseph Stone 17 times.
March 6, 2014 – Registered sex offender James Cosby, 46, is accused of bludgeoning his lesbian daughter to death and shooting her lover in Port Bolivar, Texas. Police believe he then dumped the bodies near a ferry gate. In his bedroom, Cosby had the Quran open to a page that says homosexuality is a sin, family advocate Quanell X told KHOU-TV. “It’s quite unfortunate but he had a real, real warped understanding, in my opinion, of the religion of Islam and its position on the gay lifestyle and what one should do,” Quanell X said.
April 27, 2014 – A 30-year-old Muslim man, Ali Muhammad Brown, is accused of shooting to death two men in Seattle and a man in New Jersey. According to local reports, he told police the killings were “vengeance” for U.S. actions in the Mideast. According to court documents, he said they were “just kills” and that he was “just doing my small part” as a self-styled jihadist.
Sept. 25, 2014 – Alton Nolen is accused of beheading a woman in Moore, Oklahoma. Co-workers reported that Nolen had been trying to convert them to Islam. Nolen reportedly used “some Arabic terms” during his attack and had an interest in beheadings. Nolen told a judge, “I’m Muslim. My question is, do you have any Muslims that can represent me as a Muslim?”
May 3, 2015 – In Garland, Texas, Pamela Geller, along with her group the American Freedom Defense Initiative, hosted a “Draw Muhammad” event. Elton Simpson and Nadir Soofi of Phoenix responded to a call to “avenge the prophet” and traveled to Garland, where they were shot and killed by a security guard after opening fire in an apparent attempt to get into the building. The guard was wounded in the attack. Islamic radicals have since called for Geller’s head, and vow to kill anyone who “blasphemes” Muhammad.
July 16, 2015 – Four U.S. Marines have been shot dead in an attack, reportedly by a lone Islamic gunman, on U.S. Navy facilities in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Chattanooga Mayor Andy Berke said five people died in all, including the gunman. Two law enforcement sources told CBS News that the shooting suspect was identified as Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, 24. Abdulazeez was born in Kuwait and emigrated to the U.S. where he reportedly became a naturalized U.S. citizen.
Basically what I am saying is: IF a madman was to kill innocent people he will find a way.
Killers don't need guns.
Timothy McVeigh used fertilzer
9/11 used box cutters and planes
Nazis used cyanide gas
Taking guns from innocent law abiding citizens is not going to protect innocent people.
I will say it again, the problem is not guns.
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LandCruiser
New member
The same FBI who investigated this guy twice and found nothing wrong with his jihadi leanings... or that he'd been to Saudi Arabia twice... or that his coworkers were nervous about him... or his social media history.
Yes, the FBI is a bulwark against the tide of terror.
ndcent
New member
I agree with you Wadle. The problem is not guns, my AR is locked up safely at home not committing mass murder.
The problem is ease of access to them and extremist religious ideologies.
Also no one is claiming making it more difficult for criminals to obtain them won't end violence either.
The problem is ease of access to them and extremist religious ideologies.
Also no one is claiming making it more difficult for criminals to obtain them won't end violence either.
4runovertexas
New member
I will never do that ever on this thread or any of the threads here it was really just a misunderstanding on my part. I just got my first 4Runner a little over a week ago and I hope to be able to not have my first comment be the one I am judged on.
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ben550
New member
Do you have an example of this occurring? Has there been an incident where someone used a firearm in self defense and ended up creating more casualties? There have been multiple examples of church members shooting attackers in church without your described incident occurring... Maybe it has happened as you say but I have not heard of it.
Could it happen? Yes. Has it happened? I am not aware that it has.
Ding Ding Ding... winner. Lets see what "contracts" get awarded in the new war on "mass shootings"...
How could the FBI have missed this guy? Oh maybe this has something to do with it... Documents Obtained by Judicial Watch Reveal FBI Training Curricula Purged of Material Deemed ?Offensive? to Muslims - Judicial Watch
http://www.wnd.com/2016/02/obama-dhs-scrubs-records-of-hundreds-of-muslim-terrorists/
This is being classified as a "Mass Shooting" in fact the worst mass shooting in the history of the US...
This is a Terrorist Attack which happened to use firearms. I suspect terrorist groups to continue to use firearms in the US rather than explosives. They will do this because it will throw the country into further unrest with the ensuing argument over "gun control"
The guy called 911 during the attack to proclaim his allegiance to ISIS... and they are looking for his motive... unbelievable.
JayceeP
New member
Why the sarcasm for asking a question? You didn't really clarify what you meant so I simply asked a question with no hidden intentions behind it. I was just curious if you were suggesting the CIA or some other government/non-government agency would orchestrate something like this to keep the fear level and Anti-Muslim sentiment high for other financial benefit.
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wallytoo
Member
that's good. it never hurts to verify exactly which sub-forum one is reading and/or posting in, to avoid making a less-than-stellar impression with a first post. it also never hurts to verify the age of the thread, and when the last activity occurred (ie, not responding to threads where the last post was made a decade or so ago, in general).
glad you aren't blaming auto-correct (which is lame).
wally
SL.UG
New member
SL.UG
New member
I'll just go ahead and help you out on your grammatical errors, I'll label with an asterisk to help you out in addition.
"*It's ok. (Capitalize the beginning of a sentence, even though this is an incomplete sentence.) *It'll be worse in *Canada soon. (Capitalize the beginning of a sentence. Canada needs to be capitalized)
*Eventually(capitalize), enough people here will be killed by terrorists and the powers that be will finally decide they can't ignore it. *But(capitalize & comma), *I'd (capitalize) guess we need a few thousand more *U.S.(Really? Didn't capitalize United States..?) citizens to die in terrorist attacks before that happens.
*It(capitalize) is unfortunate for a lot of potential peaceful immigrants. *The(capitalize) terrorists will shut down all U.S. (Twice now..) borders, no aliens to enter legally. *The(capitalize) war is coming, if it isn't here already."
Let me know if I missed any seeing as how we are all human & make mistakes.
Hepar
New member
I don't offhand, but is it really that hard to imagine? I mean, you have from all reports, a very crowded, dark and loud nightclub as the setting. Many didn't even know there were gunshots at first and they were in the same space as the individual. Do I think one person with a gun in the right place at the right time would have possibly helped? Sure. But say 1 in 10 of them had a firearm. That means roughly 30 people inside would then have guns. How would that end up? I mean, emotion is probably the worst thing you could have in situations like that, would you agree? That is where training training training comes into play. They try to teach people when reacting to situations like that to remain emotionless and rational. But even those with tons of training still react emotionally. How can we not expect our average Joe to do that? So you have one gunman and 30 highly charged individuals shooting with another 300 franticly trying to flee. Now as the other 300 who don't have a gun, how do you know which are people trying to help and who is the initial gunman?
Comedy I know, but as the wise Homer Simpson says, "It's funny because it's true."
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MCI4bUk4vuM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Yes, I'm sure this will come under some fire from others as me say take away all guns. I'm not saying that at all. I love guns despite not owning any. I don't think the solution is to take them away. But I also know that adding guns to more people is not the solution at all either. Go out in public. Look at your daily commute. Do people act emotionally? Yes. We are emotional people. I just don't think we have the capacity to be able to handle that as a whole. Does that mean I don't think anyone should be able to carry? No. But let's make sure those that do are as well trained as possible. Could that be someone not in law enforcement? Sure. But again, training. Training. And more training.
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Not sarcasm.....you have assumed a "context". I was suggesting that we follow the money and I guarantee you that if it's significant, and it is, than most elected officials are being lobbied for the funding to be increased (or even decreased) and directed in specific directions. It has become an industry with many competing interests.
ndcent
New member
In a sense isn't all religion radical? I mean believing in a magicial sky god is a pretty radical thing in and of itself.
wadle5
New member
Only one religion kills like this everyday. . and its Islam. Islam is a political idealogy of conquest. It seeks to conquer, kill, and destroy. Under FL law, that nightclub was a gun free zone. Thanks to liberals idealogy those individuals were sitting ducks. Isis claims the attack and Obama still says its because of hate and guns. The shooter shouted allah akbar during the shooting. . .this has EVERYTHING to due with Islam.
Christian Baker:"i wont bake you a weeding cake"
Muslim: "i will shoot you in a gay nightclub"
Whats the bigger danger to the LGBT community?
Research what they do over there to people that are gay. They don't use guns either . . as other members have pointed out they will use a 4 story building, a rock, or a knife.
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