P0441 code, and can’t pump fuel into tank

[gamefreakgc]

Didn’t work. Read my post right before yours.

That's a bummer. I think at this point it may be most cost effective to raid a junkyard or someone parting our your year of 4Runner. The EVAP parts are pretty spendy new from Toyota. There's so many things it could be that this may end up as an expensive venture.

Do you have a copy of the 2002 Factory Service Manual that floats about on the internet? The P0441 diagnostic procedure is pretty long and involves testing a lot of parts. I tried posting it but the file size was too big.

 

[DWilliam]

Going to try the purge valve on the canister this weekend. After that I’m going to check all my hoses for defects, and if that doesn’t work I suppose my next repair will be replacing the fill neck.

After that it’s gonna be a while before I can throw anymore money at this. Is there any problem mechanically other than being a PITA filling gas? It’s OK to drive?

 

[DWilliam]

Yeah it’s fairly easy to get to (at least on an 01), just two hose clamps to loosen. The only difficulty will be if the hose has glued itself to the metal bungs over time. If you can jam a pick between the hose and bung you can usually break it free. Then it just pops off

I’m going to put the truck on a lift this weekend and that hose is a main focus for me. The pump shuts off so quickly I just have a feeling it’s something in the fill neck itself, but I’m getting a 0441 code which says incorrect purge flow. Either way, I’m going to replace the purge valve on the canister while I’m in there and see if that helps.

 

[thezentree]

I’m going to put the truck on a lift this weekend and that hose is a main focus for me. The pump shuts off so quickly I just have a feeling it’s something in the fill neck itself, but I’m getting a 0441 code which says incorrect purge flow. Either way, I’m going to replace the purge valve on the canister while I’m in there and see if that helps.

Yeah I think I could get like 1/2 gal out of the pump before it would shut the pump off. Mine was throwing an EVAP code (0440 I think) as well, so it very well may be the hose liner separating. Check that filler hose before you start throwing parts at it.

 

[DWilliam]

Yeah I think I could get like 1/2 gal out of the pump before it would shut the pump off. Mine was throwing an EVAP code (0440 I think) as well, so it very well may be the hose liner separating. Check that filler hose before you start throwing parts at it.

So if I want to rule out a blockage in the fill neck, if I remove that black tube that goes from the neck to the tank, can I blow air through the fill neck or maybe pour water down to see if it flows freely? Is there a way to check the vent hoses on the fill neck as well?

 

[thezentree]

So if I want to rule out a blockage in the fill neck, if I remove that black tube that goes from the neck to the tank, can I blow air through the fill neck or maybe pour water down to see if it flows freely? Is there a way to check the vent hoses on the fill neck as well?

Yeah you can just blow compressed air through the vent lines. Make sure you're blowing FROM the tank outwards, towards the fill neck. Don't pressurize the tank or you might split your rollover valve (it's easy to replace ...once you've dropped the tank).

 

[diverscale]

and the rubber portion that did delaminate with thezentree, you'll be able to look into it, or remove it from the tank to have a look, once the filler neck is remove out of the way

 

[DWilliam]

Yeah you can just blow compressed air through the vent lines. Make sure you're blowing FROM the tank outwards, towards the fill neck. Don't pressurize the tank or you might split your rollover valve (it's easy to replace ...once you've dropped the tank).

Thank you. And just to clarify I can pop those vents off and blow air out the fill neck without dropping the tank?

 

[thezentree]

Thank you. And just to clarify I can pop those vents off and blow air out the fill neck without dropping the tank?

Yeah it's just not fun. There are a bunch of them, they're tiny and the hoses are basically fused to the fittings, and they all use those little spring clamps that jab your hand while you're trying to get the next hose over off its fitting.

 

[DWilliam]

Yeah it's just not fun. There are a bunch of them, they're tiny and the hoses are basically fused to the fittings, and they all use those little spring clamps that jab your hand while you're trying to get the next hose over off its fitting.

So I replaced the VSV on the canister, disconnected the vent lines on the fuel fill neck and blew air through them, and checked the black tubing from the fill neck to the gas tank. Went to fill up and still the same f*kn problem.

 

[thezentree]

So I replaced the VSV on the canister, disconnected the vent lines on the fuel fill neck and blew air through them, and checked the black tubing from the fill neck to the gas tank. Went to fill up and still the same f*kn problem.

Not trying to be pedantic but did you take that filler hose all the way off and really inspect it? I didn't the first time and missed the liner coming out.

 

[DWilliam]

Not trying to be pedantic but did you take that filler hose all the way off and really inspect it? I didn't the first time and missed the liner coming out.

Yep I disconnected it from the fill neck and the tank. The fill neck looked great. The canister showed no sign of cracks.

I just want to be able to pump gas.

 

[DWilliam]

Not trying to be pedantic but did you take that filler hose all the way off and really inspect it? I didn't the first time and missed the liner coming out.

Next step is to drop the tank and replace the check valve. Do you have any advice as far as that goes? Never dropped a tank before so I’m not sure what to expect.

 

[thezentree]

Next step is to drop the tank and replace the check valve. Do you have any advice as far as that goes? Never dropped a tank before so I’m not sure what to expect.

Dang, sucks it wasn't an easy fix.

Burn as much fuel as you can, and use a transmission jack to lower it. It's not bad, just kinda bulky and the fuel sloshing around makes it awkward.

Also, keep in mind that you might have to jack the 4Runner up to get the tank out from under it.

 

[DWilliam]

Dang, sucks it wasn't an easy fix.

Burn as much fuel as you can, and use a transmission jack to lower it. It's not bad, just kinda bulky and the fuel sloshing around makes it awkward.

Also, keep in mind that you might have to jack the 4Runner up to get the tank out from under it.

My buddy has a lift so when I decide to do it we can use that.

It’s been over 100 miles since I cleared the code and it’s still not back. I’m going to really inspect the fill neck and that rubber hose again, and also the inlet to make sure that there’s no physical obstruction. Once that rubber hose is disconnected from the fill neck can I pour a liquid down the neck, or use a coat hanger or
Something to see if it’s blocked?

Everything I’ve seen said that the overflow check valve throws a code different than 0441. I wonder if it was a coincidence that the valve went bad. When I bought the truck a couple months ago it filled gas just fine. Who knows?

 

[thezentree]

My buddy has a lift so when I decide to do it we can use that.

It’s been over 100 miles since I cleared the code and it’s still not back. I’m going to really inspect the fill neck and that rubber hose again, and also the inlet to make sure that there’s no physical obstruction. Once that rubber hose is disconnected from the fill neck can I pour a liquid down the neck, or use a coat hanger or
Something to see if it’s blocked?

Everything I’ve seen said that the overflow check valve throws a code different than 0441. I wonder if it was a coincidence that the valve went bad. When I bought the truck a couple months ago it filled gas just fine. Who knows?

Pull that filler hose all the way out of the truck if you haven't already, and REALLY look at it. I missed the blockage the first time and didn't see it until I ordered a borescope and shoved it down the filler neck.

You may have some weird stuff going on with your rollover valve but the fact that you're having so much trouble just filling the tank makes me think there's something going on with the filler itself and not the vents.

 

[DWilliam]

Pull that filler hose all the way out of the truck if you haven't already, and REALLY look at it. I missed the blockage the first time and didn't see it until I ordered a borescope and shoved it down the filler neck.

You may have some weird stuff going on with your rollover valve but the fact that you're having so much trouble just filling the tank makes me think there's something going on with the filler itself and not the vents.

Agreed. It happens quick. If it was happening after a couple gallons then I’d be focusing on the vents. And it may be the overflow valve, but the fact that it happens so quickly (less than 1/4 gallon pumped) makes me think it’s a physical blockage.

I’ll pull that rubber hose all the way off the filler neck and the gas tank for inspection. Once I get that hose off though, can I run something through the filler since if will be disconnected from the tank? For example, can I pour water down the filler and see if it flows through? At the tank end of that rubber hose, does it empty right into the tank or is there another valve?

 

[thezentree]

Agreed. It happens quick. If it was happening after a couple gallons then I’d be focusing on the vents. And it may be the overflow valve, but the fact that it happens so quickly (less than 1/4 gallon pumped) makes me think it’s a physical blockage.

I’ll pull that rubber hose all the way off the filler neck and the gas tank for inspection. Once I get that hose off though, can I run something through the filler since if will be disconnected from the tank? For example, can I pour water down the filler and see if it flows through? At the tank end of that rubber hose, does it empty right into the tank or is there another valve?

Oh I misunderstood what you were asking - yeah I think you can do that to the filler neck. It's been a little while, but I have a vague memory of jamming a few feet of 5/16" fuel hose down the filler neck when I had the filler hose out just to make sure nothing else was blocking it. You might consider doing something like that just to avoid getting water in your fuel system.

The rubber filler hose goes straight into the tank.

 

[DWilliam]

Well I went 350 miles after putting in both new VSV’s, but still couldn’t pump gas without it cutting off. Now CEL came on, with codes:
P0440, p0446 Vent Control Circuit.

I think at this point I have to drop the tank and to the overflow check valve, and if that doesn’t work probably a new canister.

 

[brillo_76]

Well I went 350 miles after putting in both new VSV’s, but still couldn’t pump gas without it cutting off. Now CEL came on, with codes:

P0440, p0446 Vent Control Circuit.



I think at this point I have to drop the tank and to the overflow check valve, and if that doesn’t work probably a new canister.

Oh man...major bummer. I was hoping you had it fixed..

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