Panhard bar question

+1 for the PDB

Please add Snowden for the PDB as well [MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] . Your work and contribution to our community on this has been above and beyond Sir!! :hail:

:party:
 
Dang - awesome work!

I'd be in for both brackets. I have about 4.5" of lift and an adjustable panhard. My ssssswaaaaay sux because I have not dialed in any alignment on the rear.

Looking forward to hearing on pricing and shipping dates :)

Cheers
Mark
 
man, I just got here, lol - but thanks - I'm surprised this issue hasn't been solved by anyone other than AssBurns before now.

Happy to contribute, since I'm data mining this forum for solutions on my truck almost daily - whatever I can do to reciprocate is my way of thanking you guys.
 
Dang - awesome work!

I'd be in for both brackets. I have about 4.5" of lift and an adjustable panhard. My ssssswaaaaay sux because I have not dialed in any alignment on the rear.

Looking forward to hearing on pricing and shipping dates :)

Cheers
Mark

Send me a PM with your email for Paypal and your shipping address and I'll get you in.
 
[QUOTE On a side note, are we certain that Toyota centered the axle on the 4Runner in the first place? [/QUOTE]

This is a good question. Would a start be to crawl under a stock 3rd gen and see what's happening with the drive shaft or is that not scientific enough? I don't have access to a stock one and I'm not sure I want to find one in a parking lot somewhere and crawl under it unless I find the owner first and ask.
 
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sorry I stepped out for a few days, but yes please add runner4play to the PDB also. lol I'm well over your lift numbers and have extended bumps so I don't believe it should be an issue. I'll just love improving the handling.
 
[QUOTE On a side note, are we certain that Toyota centered the axle on the 4Runner in the first place?

This is a good question. Would a start be to crawl under a stock 3rd gen and see what's happening with the drive shaft or is that not scientific enough? I don't have access to a stock one and I'm not sure I want to find one in a parking lot somewhere and crawl under it unless I find the owner first and ask.[/QUOTE]

On a stock rig the axle is centered. Panhard is level. Driveshaft hitting tank has nothing to do with the panhard. Leveling it helps but large coils can still cause contact. On stock rig the rear tires lift off the ground way before the driveshaft has a chance to contact. Usually 3" lift coils won't cause much contact. It's the bigger coils.
 
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Driveshaft hitting tank has nothing to do with the panhard. On stock rig the rear tires lift off the ground way before the driveshaft has a chance to contact. Usually 3" lift coils won't cause much contact. It's the bigger coils.

So it's down-travel on the passenger side causing the driveshaft to swing over and contact the tank at a spot LOWER than the driveshaft normally is?

In other words; this occurs when the driver's side is stuffed and the passenger's side is extended?
 
So it's down-travel on the passenger side causing the driveshaft to swing over and contact the tank at a spot LOWER than the driveshaft normally is?

In other words; this occurs when the driver's side is stuffed and the passenger's side is extended?

I think it's when the driver side stuffs. This is why lowering bumpstops help. I didn't mean to say panhard bar leveled won't help. When level the axle will flex more vertical. So combination of leveled panhard, lowered bump stops, sway bar installed and some cutting of gas tank skid may stop the contact.

My contact is minimal. Maybe leveling out panhard will finally stop all contact.
 
So combination of leveled panhard, lowered bump stops, sway bar installed and some cutting of gas tank skid may stop the contact.

My contact is minimal. Maybe leveling out panhard will finally stop all contact.

If it doesn't, I'll look into the tank skid shape/positioning next.. :/
 
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The panhard has a big effect on how much the driveshaft hits the gas tank skid. The panhard is obviously not the cause of this, but it can push or pull the axle closer or further from making contact. Of course sway bars and extended bump stops will help cure this issue but those both limit offroad capabilities. The higher the the roll center the more swing the axle with have side to side under articulation. Think of a triangle with the top part as the axis of rotation (Roll Center) and the bottom as the axle. If the RC is low (on the same plane as the axle) the axle will rotate around the center of the differential. Now raise the roll center say a foot. The axle will now swing in more of an arc rather than just rotate around its own center. So if the RC is raised (pandhard lift bracket), the driveshaft will actually swing more into the gas tank skid. With the RC lowered (panhard drop bracket), the driveshaft will have less swing towards the gastank skid. Also if you went with just adjustable and no brackets, you would have to extend your PH to center your axle, which actually pushes it closer to the gas tank skid. I know roll center and all those other suspension terms can get confusing. Which it was very confusing for me when I first started learning about linked suspension. If my description doesn't make sense, then start searching to get a better understanding. Hope this helps though.
 
The panhard has a big effect on how much the driveshaft hits the gas tank skid. The panhard is obviously not the cause of this, but it can push or pull the axle closer or further from making contact. Of course sway bars and extended bump stops will help cure this issue but those both limit offroad capabilities. The higher the the roll center the more swing the axle with have side to side under articulation. Think of a triangle with the top part as the axis of rotation (Roll Center) and the bottom as the axle. If the RC is low (on the same plane as the axle) the axle will rotate around the center of the differential. Now raise the roll center say a foot. The axle will now swing in more of an arc rather than just rotate around its own center. So if the RC is raised (pandhard lift bracket), the driveshaft will actually swing more into the gas tank skid. With the RC lowered (panhard drop bracket), the driveshaft will have less swing towards the gastank skid. Also if you went with just adjustable and no brackets, you would have to extend your PH to center your axle, which actually pushes it closer to the gas tank skid. I know roll center and all those other suspension terms can get confusing. Which it was very confusing for me when I first started learning about linked suspension. If my description doesn't make sense, then start searching to get a better understanding. Hope this helps though.

[MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] what did you discover with fuel tank skid contact after you installed your PB lift bracket? I also noticed on [MENTION=67615]Dirtco[/MENTION]'s thread, on his very custom rear axle, that he made a axle side lift bracket which is even taller than yours and [MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION]s, I wonder if he had contact.
 
Nailed it. (Finally!) :)

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I've sent it out for quotes; will update when I hear back from the job shop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
[MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] what did you discover with fuel tank skid contact after you installed your PB lift bracket? I also noticed on [MENTION=67615]Dirtco[/MENTION]'s thread, on his very custom rear axle, that he made a axle side lift bracket which is even taller than yours and [MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION]s, I wonder if he had contact.

Well I originally made a PB drop bracket when i first installed my lift. I barely made any contact with my skid so I just hammered it a bit and it cleared. Once I cut off my drop bracket and made a lift bracket, I now rub my skid all over the place. I haven't done much to my skid yet since it just keeps getting bent up worse from smashing on it and hitting the driveshaft. I just grabbed pliers and bent the edge of the skid over then hammered it flat. Looks like shit but so does the rest of the skid. If I end up dropping the frame side a little to get the PH more level, then I'm sure it will help a little bit.
 
Well I originally made a PB drop bracket when i first installed my lift. I barely made any contact with my skid so I just hammered it a bit and it cleared. Once I cut off my drop bracket and made a lift bracket, I now rub my skid all over the place. I haven't done much to my skid yet since it just keeps getting bent up worse from smashing on it and hitting the driveshaft. I just grabbed pliers and bent the edge of the skid over then hammered it flat. Looks like shit but so does the rest of the skid. If I end up dropping the frame side a little to get the PH more level, then I'm sure it will help a little bit.

Steve at SS said this is one of the reasons he never created a lift bracket. It causes the bar to push over more into the tank. He also stopped selling his drop bracket he created because it really didnt do anything.
 
Tank Skid mod

It seems most do agree on the importance of leveling the Panhard bar to correct RC. And to align the axle 'thwart-ships' for correct track. Therefore it is sounding like an additional mod may need to be considered which is to design and build a kind of 'curved inward' fuel tank plate that can be welded in place where the contact has been made. Per my earlier picture post my FT skid is literally torn where the uni joint made contact. That was with 3" lift, sway bar connected, and no PBLB or PBDB. Cutting away the section of contact on the FT skid is easy enough but it makes me wonder/worry of the fuel tank can actually be reached by the drive shaft.
 

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