Panhard correction bracket or bar to fix bumpsteer with mild lift?

[JohnOfTheJungle]

Ever since I did my lift back in June I’ve had pretty bad bump steer. Since the lift was only OME 906 I didn’t think I would need a panhard bar.

After recently doing more research about it it seems like the panhard bar is pulling my axle under compression and could be causing the bumpsteer. Does this sound accurate?

If so - is it best to get a weld on bracket or the adjustable panhard from SS? Are there other recommended sources that are cheaper than SS for a comparable product?

I am also going to investigate rear bushings and various parts. I’ve already replaced everything in the front suspension except the inner tie rods, steering rack, and sway bar bushings.




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[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Ever since I did my lift back in June I’ve had pretty bad bump steer. Since the lift was only OME 906 I didn’t think I would need a panhard bar.

After recently doing more research about it it seems like the panhard bar is pulling my axle under compression and could be causing the bumpsteer. Does this sound accurate?

If so - is it best to get a weld on bracket or the adjustable panhard from SS? Are there other recommended sources that are cheaper than SS for a comparable product?

I am also going to investigate rear bushings and various parts. I’ve already replaced everything in the front suspension except the inner tie rods, steering rack, and sway bar bushings.




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What does your front caster angle look like? This would be the very first thing you should look at. I also had the SPC upper control arms to get my caster angle back. I still had bump steer but my lift is a little more and the the adjustable panhard bar did not help. Eimketh's bracket kit fixed me up right though.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/sale-...eimkeith-pck-panhard-correction-kits-$86.html

 

[jkeith.w]

Good morning!

If you decide to go with a PCK, let me know - I have some in stock at the moment, so I can ship right out.

 

[TillytheToyota]

I had obvious bump steer with lc 8 wraps and tokicos in the rear because my axle was over .25” on the passenger side. For 86$, Eimkieths pck fixed the issue.

 

[96RedRunner]

The PCK is the bomb. Is your pan hard bar level as it should be by design?
If by saying bump steer you mean your rearend scoots side to side when hitting bumps, then the PCK should fix your it.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Get the PCK from [MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION].
Weld the bottom one on first. If that makes your panhard level, don't bother with the top. If it's still not flat, weld the top bracket on.
The adjustable bar does not do the same thing as the brackets do. It will center your axle at ride height(if adjusted to do so), but it will have the same travel sideways as before.
The brackets minimize side travel, by putting the bar flat at ride height. A bonus is having your axle centered with the stock bar, but that's not the main purpose of the brackets.

All that said, I wouldn't consider that issue bump steer. Is it your front end, or your rear that feels "shifty" over bumps?


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[JohnOfTheJungle]

Thanks for the replies.

Feels like the rear scoots to the side when I hit a bump while going around a bend in the highway - scares the crap outta my girlfriend if she’s driving, luckily it’s usually me.

I’ve had it aligned several times in the past year. Once after replacing all bushings etc in front end, the other after putting the lift on.

I got the lifetime alignment at firestone and honestly I don’t even know if they’re doing a good job. They argued that they couldn’t align it if it was lifted, I told them to just set it to factory specs. I don’t know the camber offhand but can dig out the sheet tomorrow.

I do know that they got everything in spec. It seems to track well on the highway.

My UCA are stock, 99 tall coils in front with 265-75 tires so I figured I’d be okay staying stock on the UCA.




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[phattyduck]

A panhard issue would show up as a 'sway' in the rear end as the suspension cycles up and down, most noticeable when going straight.

If the rear scoots or skips sideways with bumps when going around corners, your shocks may not be doing their job well - or you are just not used to a solid rear axle vehicle and should slow down.

-Charlie

 

[Tyler James Inc]

A panhard issue would show up as a 'sway' in the rear end as the suspension cycles up and down, most noticeable when going straight.



If the rear scoots or skips sideways with bumps when going around corners, your shocks may not be doing their job well - or you are just not used to a solid rear axle vehicle and should slow down.



-Charlie

I have to somewhat disagree.
Many guys have experienced the rear end kinda "wiggling" over bumps and in corners when the suspension is loaded up and unloads. I experienced this myself- before the PCK- with brand new shocks.

 

[reelamin]

Ever since I did my lift back in June I’ve had pretty bad bump steer. Since the lift was only OME 906 I didn’t think I would need a panhard bar.

After recently doing more research about it it seems like the panhard bar is pulling my axle under compression and could be causing the bumpsteer. Does this sound accurate?

If so - is it best to get a weld on bracket or the adjustable panhard from SS? Are there other recommended sources that are cheaper than SS for a comparable product?

I am also going to investigate rear bushings and various parts. I’ve already replaced everything in the front suspension except the inner tie rods, steering rack, and sway bar bushings.




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I put 906/5100 on mine and there was absolutely no difference in panhard bar position. Not sure but you might have something else going on. After I replaced my worn out suspension....it was the Rack Bushings.....still have not replaced them...I just herd it down the road. My biggest issue was the tire choice...super stiff sidewalls make for a rougher ride than needed with the 5100's.

 

[Snowden]

Fwiw

I'll admit I am not as educated as many of these folks with regard to suspension and handling characteristics. But I'll say this about my experience with the Eimkeith PCK. I run the Toytec 3" suspension lift and also have a 2" BL on 33".

One particular paved narrow highway I take when heading up to the Sierras gets very curvy and with strange pitches and odd bumps under fresh tar (that leave you wondering how they are even there). Emphasis on narrow, curvy and bumpy.

When I used to drive this road before the PCK my rig was thrown all over the place and quite alarmingly frankly speaking and I couldn't keep up with my buddy's in their Jeeps. I had to let them run ahead while I slowed down for the 5 miles of bull-sheet road.

After I installed the PCK, driving that same road now is like night and day. It was a phenomenal difference. That same stretch of road for me still isn't perfect but I attribute the left over nervousness to my BL. Which I will not remove because I DIG my tire clearance when max articulated. I was lucky to have that 'test stretch' of highway because for me it definitively proved the PCK. My $0.02 FWIW YMMV.

 

[JohnOfTheJungle]

I'll admit I am not as educated as many of these folks with regard to suspension and handling characteristics. But I'll say this about my experience with the Eimkeith PCK. I run the Toytec 3" suspension lift and also have a 2" BL on 33".

One particular paved narrow highway I take when heading up to the Sierras gets very curvy and with strange pitches and odd bumps under fresh tar (that leave you wondering how they are even there). Emphasis on narrow, curvy and bumpy.

When I used to drive this road before the PCK my rig was thrown all over the place and quite alarmingly frankly speaking and I couldn't keep up with my buddy's in their Jeeps. I had to let them run ahead while I slowed down for the 5 miles of bull-sheet road.

After I installed the PCK, driving that same road now is like night and day. It was a phenomenal difference. That same stretch of road for me still isn't perfect but I attribute the left over nervousness to my BL. Which I will not remove because I DIG my tire clearance when max articulated. I was lucky to have that 'test stretch' of highway because for me it definitively proved the PCK. My $0.02 FWIW YMMV.

Thanks for the heads up. Here’s what my panhard bar looks like - it’s a little uneven but not super jacked up. It seems like enough that it might be causing some of the symptoms I’m getting:

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[JohnOfTheJungle]

What does your front caster angle look like? This would be the very first thing you should look at. I also had the SPC upper control arms to get my caster angle back. I still had bump steer but my lift is a little more and the the adjustable panhard bar did not help. Eimketh's bracket kit fixed me up right though.



http://www.toyota-4runner.org/sale-...eimkeith-pck-panhard-correction-kits-$86.html

Here is my alignment sheet from after I redid all my front suspension stuff - LCA bushings, LBJ, outer tie rod ends, sway bar links.

I don’t see a caster measure - did they just ignore it altogether?

Here’s my sheet after I got new tires on and got it aligned about 3 months after the above pic. The output on this one is different - it’s 3 sheets with different measurements. I’m honestly a little confused by it:

Did I just get the infamous “toe and go”?

I’m due for another alignment so I’ll try to get in there Saturday and watch them this time. Key question should be caster, yea? As I understand I want it as close to 3 as possible, right?




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[marcus clarkus]

The rear of my 4Runner also shakes side to side after hitting a big bump. There's a section of the road I hit on the way home from work everyday where a storm drain causes a gradual dip in the road, maybe 1.5 foot drop over a length 12 ft and half the lane width. I noticed new shocks and springs made a big difference in reducing the suspension overshoot, but I still get that shimmy.

I hope to get the PCK one day, but I need to find someone who can weld it. My panhard bar looks like it's at exactly the same angle as yours:

(click to enlarge)

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Here is my alignment sheet from after I redid all my front suspension stuff - LCA bushings, LBJ, outer tie rod ends, sway bar links.

I don’t see a caster measure - did they just ignore it altogether?

Here’s my sheet after I got new tires on and got it aligned about 3 months after the above pic. The output on this one is different - it’s 3 sheets with different measurements. I’m honestly a little confused by it:

Did I just get the infamous “toe and go”?

I’m due for another alignment so I’ll try to get in there Saturday and watch them this time. Key question should be caster, yea? As I understand I want it as close to 3 as possible, right?




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Looks like toe and go. Says it right on the invoice. All those parts you replaced they should have checked/ adjusted all 3 angles.

Yes the spec is 1.7 to 3.4 degrees, within .5 degrees on either sides. Maybe a little less caster on the drivers side to compensate for road crown.

For example: Driver's side 3.0 degrees - Pass side 3.4 degrees within the .5 cross caster allotment with a little less caster on the drivers side because caster pulls to the side more negative. FYI it's the opposite for camber (pulls to the more positive side) and since your printout shows .8 on the drivers and .1 on the pass you could possibly pull a little to the left, although with road crown and being it's not that much of a difference, you probably wouldn't notice it.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

I still get that shimmy.

I hope to get the PCK one day, but I need to find someone who can weld it. My panhard bar looks like it's at exactly the same angle as yours:

Yup! You'll get the shimmy until you make that bar flat. I wish you were local; I'd love to help you get a PCK installed on your rig. Anyone who has driven their rig uncorrected and corrected will tell you it's a night and day difference!

Definitely would benefit from his brackets.
Here's mine-

I drive my 4Runner hard and fast on 315/70R17 KO2's, and I blame [MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] for that. It's so damn stable, I can't help but drive it like a BMW

 

[JohnOfTheJungle]

Thanks for all the responses both on the PCK and on the alignment, you guys are great!

I ordered a PCK from Keith, will update when I get it welded on. :hungry:

 

[Mzs14]

Just ordered mine as well. :reddance:

 

[infantry503]

Get the PCK from [MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION].
Weld the bottom one on first. If that makes your panhard level, don't bother with the top. If it's still not flat, weld the top bracket on.
The adjustable bar does not do the same thing as the brackets do. It will center your axle at ride height(if adjusted to do so), but it will have the same travel sideways as before.
The brackets minimize side travel, by putting the bar flat at ride height. A bonus is having your axle centered with the stock bar, but that's not the main purpose of the brackets.

All that said, I wouldn't consider that issue bump steer. Is it your front end, or your rear that feels "shifty" over bumps?


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I ordered mine last night and it's in the mail for my weekend of lifting and wheel swap

 

[jkeith.w]

I ordered a PCK from Keith, will update when I get it welded on. :hungry:

Just ordered mine as well. :reddance:

I ordered mine last night and it's in the mail for my weekend of lifting and wheel swap

thanks guys for the orders! - it made for a busy day (and a pretty damned good one!)

(all 3 of you shipped out today, btw)