People with Coilovers - 14" Coil Upgrade?

[ajonesnv]

Not yet, I cant imagine how nice they will be with a winch on. The one thing I really like about the 700s is that I dont run a sway bar and they keep the body roll down on the streets but still articulate like hell offroad

I must give them a go then

 

[shootmymime]

14-650-3.00

 

[TCMach]

I must give them a go then

Just in case you wanted proof. haha

IMG_6284 by Tyler Carvell, on Flickr

IMG_6283 by Tyler Carvell, on Flickr

 

[ajonesnv]

Just in case you wanted proof. haha

LOL, Bad A!

Ill get some photos of mine when Im all done...I haven't ran a sway bar up front for a awhile either...might help when pulling my trailer too.

 

[JWaldz]

Just in case you wanted proof. haha

Man, I hope my coils flex that well when they're rebuilt lol

looks like I'm going for the 14" 700's..

 

[D Farms]

Just in case you wanted proof. haha

IMG_6284 by Tyler Carvell, on Flickr

IMG_6283 by Tyler Carvell, on Flickr

thats great, but I think any 4runner will flex like that in a spot like that, all the weight of the truck is forcing that spring to compress. the reality is that a softer spring rate in the front will compress more in more situations. thats not to say 700lb springs dont match up well with full skids and armor.

 

[TCMach]

thats great, but I think any 4runner will flex like that in a spot like that, all the weight of the truck is forcing that spring to compress. the reality is that a softer spring rate in the front will compress more in more situations. thats not to say 700lb springs dont match up well with full skids and armor.

I was on bumpstops in the front so it won't compress any more haha, but that wasn't really my point. It's not so much "oh I flex so much" as a "you can still do it with 700s". I've seen many threads where people are worried and think that 700s are too stiff and will take away from flex. In reality they match up really well with full armor and a winch just like you said, and they won't hinder the performance of the truck off road

 

[MandAtaco]

Man, I hope my coils flex that well when they're rebuilt lol

looks like I'm going for the 14" 700's..

I would be curious to know where you source your springs at. Thanks!

 

[JayRolla]

thats great, but I think any 4runner will flex like that in a spot like that, all the weight of the truck is forcing that spring to compress. the reality is that a softer spring rate in the front will compress more in more situations. thats not to say 700lb springs dont match up well with full skids and armor.

My ome 881 coils will do that, all the way to the bump stop. But they dont look as cool as you guys. LOL.

 

[sn0wrunner]

I was on bumpstops in the front so it won't compress any more haha

But can you touch your bump stops when you don't have as much of the vehicle weight helping you out like in the pictures above? If you're driving over a rock going uphill instead of downhill do the 700's compress Enough for you to reach the bumpstops? If not, I would argue that the stiffer springs are hindering the amount of articulation. Like [MENTION=100116]D Farms[/MENTION] said, a softer spring rate will obviously compress easier and I would guess this is the situation he was referring to.

 

[TCMach]

But can you touch your bump stops when you don't have as much of the vehicle weight helping you out like in the pictures above? If you're driving over a rock going uphill instead of downhill do the 700's compress Enough for you to reach the bumpstops? If not, I would argue that the stiffer springs are hindering the amount of articulation. Like [MENTION=100116]D Farms[/MENTION] said, a softer spring rate will obviously compress easier and I would guess this is the situation he was referring to.

To be honest I don't know. I've been far enough up to smash my tire into the fender pretty good but don't know if that was technically full bump. I'm wheeling tomorrow so I'll try to put myself in a position to find out haha.

 

[sn0wrunner]

Nice! What trail are you running?

 

[1985taylor1925]

Think about what you're saying... Why would your down travel change at all if your lift and geometry isn't changing? All you're adjusting is the point you have to preload down to, that doesn't actually change how much of the shock is compressed. D Farms is correct.

You must just be making this point because in either case the bump stops on the control arms contacting the frame are the limiting factor? Because if ie you have two coils, both say 650lbs, but one is 4" longer, both coils will sit with identical preload to get the same lift, but the longer coil obviously can provide more down travel (assuming you dont first hit the bump stop, or fully compress the shock) because it has more free space between the coils. Not questioning you knowledge on suspension. Ive gone through your thread and seen all the crazy custom work youve done on your front suspension! Just making the point

so if you compress your spring say 1" before you assemble your coilover, at full droop with a 650lb spring you will have 650lb of force that needs to be overcome before the suspension will move. imagine you are driving at high speed going over bumps and dips. you go over a dip, the suspension droops all the way, then is compressed when you come out of the dip. because there is a lot of preload at full droop on our rigs the preload must be overcome before the suspension will start moving again. if you wanted to have less preload on the springs at full droop, running a higher spring rate would solve this issue. this is probably one of the reasons a higher rate spring will feel better. im no expert but I would think that having as close to zero preload at full droop would be ideal because the suspension would smoothly start compressing from full droop. the other way to solve this problem is by simply preloading the spring less, in turn running less lift. Or by increasing the shock length and down travel length, aka long travel. one problem with increasing the spring rate though is that your suspension will not articulate and compress well during low speed manuevering. This is why I went back to running a lower lift with the stock springs on my tundra 5100s, Id rather not get stuck on obstacles and have more flex.

Are you running your coils on the top of the 5 perches? If so Im wondering how close your coils are to being fully compressed before the bump stops hit? Just out of curiosity.

 

[TCMach]

Nice! What trail are you running?

Kelly flats. Did it once but it started raining when I was still at the bottom of heart attack hill so I took the easiest line up. So I'm excited to get back and try it again. Depending on how ballsy I'm feeling I may try the chutes haha

 

[D Farms]

You must just be making this point because in either case the bump stops on the control arms contacting the frame are the limiting factor? Because if ie you have two coils, both say 650lbs, but one is 4" longer, both coils will sit with identical preload to get the same lift, but the longer coil obviously can provide more down travel (assuming you dont first hit the bump stop, or fully compress the shock) because it has more free space between the coils. Not questioning you knowledge on suspension. Ive gone through your thread and seen all the crazy custom work youve done on your front suspension! Just making the point



Are you running your coils on the top of the 5 perches? If so Im wondering how close your coils are to being fully compressed before the bump stops hit? Just out of curiosity.

here, I shortened my bump stops and they are on the 4th perch, these are stock 2002 coils, the shortest available and I still have plenty of room to compress them on the 4th perch here, length is not an issue here. Also I have unrealistic expectations of my ifs and expect it to flex like a solid axle.

 

[1985taylor1925]

here, I shortened my bump stops and they are on the 4th perch, these are stock 2002 coils, the shortest available and I still have plenty of room to compress them on the 4th perch here, length is not an issue here. Also I have unrealistic expectations of my ifs and expect it to flex like a solid axle.

Nice. So in real world application the geometry is the limiting factor. Without seeing it I would have thought the coil would be just about maxed at that point. Its cool to actually see that geometry.

I cant say Im a true off road enthusiast, but if I were I would probably do the exact same thing you did there, without being able to afford ICONs. I currently run Taco 5100s with oem 99 coils. Basically the same setup, except Ive read the Tundra 5100s are valved heavier, as would be expected. Im sure the preload on your coils and the extra weight of the front bumper helps balance out the ride with the tundra 5100s

 

[JWaldz]

So with all this talk, what would be the main reason for switching to a 14" coil from say a 12" or 13". Less preload and that's all?

 

[D Farms]

So with all this talk, what would be the main reason for switching to a 14" coil from say a 12" or 13". Less preload and that's all?

haha no you have to preload them all the same, the only difference to us is the coil will cover the shock more.

 

[1985taylor1925]

So with all this talk, what would be the main reason for switching to a 14" coil from say a 12" or 13". Less preload and that's all?

haha no you have to preload them all the same, the only difference to us is the coil will cover the shock more.

No difference on our stock geometry being the main point. For the guys with true long travel ifs, or solid front axles with a ton of travel for wheeling, longer coils (and shocks of course) would then become necessary.

 

[JWaldz]

So is there any point for me to really spend $250 bucks on 1" longer coils and have a 50# higher rating?