Proper Alignments for our Rigs once lifted
- Thread starter TheWraith
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DesertCanyons
New member
Alignment after lift
I think a lot depends on what you're adding with the lift. Are you upgrading the rear links and panhard bar? See the thread from yesterday regarding, "What are lower links for".
I'm in Pasadena. I know a good alignment shop I will go see here when I do a lift. I suggest you go visit local shops and ask them what they know about alignment with a lift.
Ask these guys who they recommend. They're in Riverside, CA.
4-Runner, Demello Offroad
I think a lot depends on what you're adding with the lift. Are you upgrading the rear links and panhard bar? See the thread from yesterday regarding, "What are lower links for".
I'm in Pasadena. I know a good alignment shop I will go see here when I do a lift. I suggest you go visit local shops and ask them what they know about alignment with a lift.
Ask these guys who they recommend. They're in Riverside, CA.
4-Runner, Demello Offroad
bimrunner
New member
It isn't really rocket science. I've had a local shop familiar with off-road rigs do mine as well as Firestone and come out pretty much the same. I go for as much castor as I can get and as close to spec on the other measurements as they can get me. I'm a little over +5 con castor and within spec on toe and camber.
Speedy Babo
New member
I used JC Alignments in Huntington Beach. Got good results and a few other members got it done here too. Just tell him how much castor and the rest is taken care of. Don't know if he does coilover height adj... but doesn't hurt to ask. Also, they have a pretty busy schedule so make an appointment.
JC?s Alignments - Auto Repair - Huntington Beach, CA - Yelp
JC?s Alignments - Auto Repair - Huntington Beach, CA - Yelp
TheWraith
New member
Is that full coilover adjustment, rear arms and track bar adjustment to set it back to stock specs ????
I just bought Icon Stage 7 and want it adjusted and aligned correctly.
why did you go for positive castor ???
1engineer
Moderator
+ caster makes it much less "twitchy" on the highway. I totally agree with [MENTION=89562]bimrunner[/MENTION]. Back in the day when I was lifting everything and spending my whole paycheck on suspensions and engines I had a local mom and pop shop that I trusted do it. It is really not rocket science.
Basic suspension geometry has not changed since the first cave man came over on a long boat from France in 1493 and landed at Schoolhouse Rock.
bimrunner
New member
As [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] said re castor. I don't have aftermarket panhard but lower and upper links to get pinion angle back to spec (it doesn't really go out that far anyhow even with a stage x lift). I'm running As high as I can without destroying cvs. I'm lifted a full 3" in front and same in the rear (MT LT HD springs would be 4" lift in the back without weight). I understand wanting it correct but it isn't something that is so custom a "normal" good alignment guy can't get right.
Waterman2112
Member
1engineer - I would like to ask your opinion on alignment... It does seem simple from many perspectives - theoretical/practical/etc. – but I was interested in ‘repeatability’ which is a common term used in some metrology work I have done in the past. It would seem to me that there should be some level of repeatability in readings when doing measurements of any kind… a kind of weights and measures thing. Is there a significant level of repeatability in the measuring devices (alignment racks) that are employed?
I see some alignment shops saying ‘Laser Alignment’ – are they true laser interferometry units, or optics which I would think is just as good?
I saw one alignment guy really – and I mean really – pulling hard on the lower cam assembly on the lower control arms which from my understanding is the only point of alignment for Caster and Camber for my 4Runner… I mean the whole vehicle was lurching when he was making adjustments. This seems to me to be inherently unrepeatable… I definitely don’t know enough about this subject but wanted to get your thoughts… Thanks
TheWraith
New member
just dont want to do it over and over and waste money.
Ive been to a discount tire place and have them aligne my lifted Tundra and every was close to stock specs but my freaking steering wheel wasnt straight... this is the issue I want to evade.
And wanted to see what shops are you SoCal guys using ???
1engineer
Moderator
A good alignment depends on a few things:
1. Knowledgeable Tech
2. Good Tooling and Rack
First, and most important to answering your question, is that "No two vehicles, even exact copies, are the same." Why? Simple. Stack up tolerances of course. Ever wonder why there is an alignment adjustment in the first place? That's why. Think about it like this: I have a piece of steel that I have bent with a tolerance of .000 to +.004. It gets bolted to another piece of steel that has -.002 to +.004. It gets welded to another piece... and you get my point. Eventually you are going to have to get to a point where something has to be adjustable or else you are going to be waaaayyyy off. So to answer your question no, exact repeatability is usually not an option with alignment. That's why OEM specs will give you a range of angles or numbers to be in and it will still be considered correct.
On top of the vehicle you have machines that will do the alignment and Techs that operate the machines. Alignment racks are just like any other tool. The more you spend on one the better it is usually. Then there's maintenance on the rack. Do they just let it go or is it re calibrated as needed? Then there's the tech who operates it. Did he have a fight with his girlfriend the night before? Take a drink at lunch? Maybe he got a merit raise last week and got a really good night's sleep. Who knows lol.
Bottom line: No. Vehicle alignments, by their nature, are not really repeatable. The good thing about them is they don't have to be exactly perfect to let you track down the road without pulling and not wear your tires. You only have to be in a RANGE of numbers to be OK. Remember that even though you could have identical vehicles they will be just a bit different. Enough that their alignment numbers won't be the same. Hope this helps.
bimrunner
New member
Totally understood. Hopefully some of my southern brothers can give good shop recommendations. I personally like the lifetime Firestone deal as if I don't like the way one tech/shop did it, I can go down the road to another and have them redo it for "free."
Waterman2112
Member
Thanks for the feedback... Understand the Stacking Tolerances thing. From vehicle to vehicle that would be a species thing; the 4Runner species – rack type species - got the ‘Range’ thing too.
I was wondering more from a specific vehicle. I take in my vehicle to get an alignment and 1 hour later I go back to the very same machine and operator and get another. So, as you pointed out the operator (tech) can have a massive influence as to how that alignment proceeds and the results obtained… I assumed there were specific sequential actions that were more controlled. I think I need to read more… Thanks again
I was wondering more from a specific vehicle. I take in my vehicle to get an alignment and 1 hour later I go back to the very same machine and operator and get another. So, as you pointed out the operator (tech) can have a massive influence as to how that alignment proceeds and the results obtained… I assumed there were specific sequential actions that were more controlled. I think I need to read more… Thanks again
badhabits
New member
What I have done is to ask the shop up front if they will keep working until it is right so I will not have to keep paying for them not doing there job. I have found that if the shop knows what thy are doing they will agree to this and do it right the first time.
TheWraith
New member
HA
Ive had bad experience with these. "Sorry we're closing ... just leave your car here and come back tomorrow"
nevada
Senior Member
you are way overthinking things.
your scenario: if the first alignment is done to correct specs, and the machine isn't knocked out of calibration in that timeframe, there would be no adjustments necessary the 2nd time.
it would be in alignment.
TheWraith
New member
Thank you sir ... scheduled an appointment on Monday with them
cleveland48
New member
Know it's been awhile since anyone posted on this thread, but I just got my alignment done yesterday. I apparently knocked my toe out very bad it was -.23. So here is my printout from yesterday. Truck drives fine , but I was under the impression you want your caster to perfectly match? And now I'm rubbing again somewhere thought I was over that crap lol. So how does it look ?
Jono.ful
New member
in the rear, your upper and lower arms adjust the pinion angle. have it adjusted so that the drive shaft comes in at a relatively neutral angle. as for the panhard bar (tack bar), this controls how centred your axle is under the truck. as lifting the rear pulls the axle towards the passenger side, you want to lengthen your panhard bar to compensate for this.
