Question for 4wd Limited Owners

[Scooter Dude]

Pretty new 4Runner yet, haven't taken off road or driven it in winter yet so no opinion on 4wd at this time.

Still on the fence on adding the running boards, I'm shorter at 5 6 and would hit my shins and we have crappy roads for a good part of the year and don't want to wear the remnants lol, I know I should probably get them for the wife and kiddos but they aren't in this truck as much, hence I'm really on the fence here, hmmm...

I did add mud guards, had them on my jeep and they really helped with the side spray, yah I broke a few off road but they are cheap and worth it - get them lol

Leather is good quality as far as I can tell, I have black and was always a Vader guy but the redwood looks good/personal opinion here.

Good luck

 

[bloodninja]

Most of the MPG difference comes from the extra weight of 4WD/AWD parts, which is about 300lbs extra, so even if you can switch to 2WD you won't save much. The Limited also adds about 125lbs of power seats and stuff over the SR5.

I read an extensive number of posts on the 4th gen section, and concluded there is almost no measurable difference in MPG whether you are in 2WD or 4WD. Most people claim it's about 1MPG, but only a few people actually had what sounded like valid data, and that suggested less than 1MPG loss if you switch from 2WD to 4WD.

The EPA numbers show 1MPG difference for 2WD vs 4WD, but again that is mostly because of the weight difference not the extra friction.

Yes, fulltime 4WD will use a little more fuel than a part time system that you can leave in 2WD all the time, but it's not enough to matter.

From my experience in my 2012 Limited (FT-4WD), I average about 16 MPG in heavy city traffic, and about 20 MPG in highway traffic, if I don't make any effort to be economical. I did manage to average 25 MPG on a trip to Long Island though, but that was entirely highway with virtually no traffic, no stops, and cruise control set at 65 MPH.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

Most of the MPG difference comes from the extra weight of 4WD/AWD parts, which is about 300lbs extra, so even if you can switch to 2WD you won't save much.

There is no way the full time awd add 300 lbs. The transfer case is almost the same size, it just has a few extra parts in it. The front dif is lighter because it does not have the axle disconnect system.

 

[Jetboy]

Great! What about the leather? Are they good quality? Will they crack and tear after awhile? I really like the redwood leather, looks so good!

Yes it's good quality,

Yes it will crack and tear after a while, but the leather in my last limited 4runner lasted quite a few years. The stitching and vinyl sides fail first.

I agree - the leather does look great.

 

[ColoT4R]

Leather in my 2014 Limited is great, huge upgrade over 10'-13' Limited Leather. Remember though, just the middle section is leather (perforated) the sides are Softex, which is not too bad.

I am averaging 18.6mpg in my 14' 4WD Limited. I do not drive like a grandma. That's mix highway and city using 85 octane at high altitude.

 

[m85476585]

There is no way the full time awd add 300 lbs. The transfer case is almost the same size, it just has a few extra parts in it. The front dif is lighter because it does not have the axle disconnect system.

Sorry, I meant to say a 4WD 4runner is about 300lbs more than a 2WD-only 4runner, based on Toyota's curb weight specs. It looks like the Limited 4WD is 305lbs more than a Limited 2WD, and a SR5 4WD is 300lbs more than a SR5 2WD, so the limited slip center differential adds 5lbs.

My point is that if your 4runner has 4WD, you are carrying around that weight all the time whether it has a 2WD mode or not. That is the main reason for the 1MPG drop in EPA numbers, (city MPG is surprisingly unaffected, but it could be due to how they round the numbers).

 

[JB.]

Shorter tire lifespan is just part of the deal with awd.

If true, one might reasonably expect to find evidence somewhere in the world of commerce. Vehicle or tire literature and warranties, owners manuals, etc.

Are you aware of any?

 

[Jetboy]

If true, one might reasonably expect to find evidence somewhere in the world of commerce. Vehicle or tire literature and warranties, owners manuals, etc.

Are you aware of any?

Front tires on a turning vehicle travel a different arc from the rear. A torsen center differential does not allow for free transfer of torque to the path of least resistance. The result is tires either scrubbing or applying greater force than they otherwise would. This shortens the tires' lifespan. It's easy to test for yourself. Do a steering lock turn in a parking lot in awd. It's easy to feel the binding.

In the IS250 we had it would scrub the tires at full lock, but it's a much different awd system that is rear biased not balanced. And it eats tires like crazy. 15-20k is typical.

 

[1engineer]

If true, one might reasonably expect to find evidence somewhere in the world of commerce. Vehicle or tire literature and warranties, owners manuals, etc.

Are you aware of any?

The only accelerated tire wear I am aware of is front tires versus rear tires. I have read a lot on tires, wear patterns, hydroplaning and such and never have I found documentation on AWD or full time 4WD accelerated tire wear. Could be out there but I have not found any.

 

[lightspeed]

I notice very little (if any) mileage or tire-wear penalty with my Limited compared to a friend with an SR5, and I assume this is because the (default) H4F setting was specifically engineered to maximize mileage and minimize tire wear on pavement.

In the winter I sometimes switch to H4L on the fly, like when I'm approaching heavy snow or ice, and this is where I'd imagine the traction gain would come at the expense of mileage/ wear -- which is a price I'm happy to pay in those situations.

I rarely use L4L (offroading, stuck in deep snow, very steep ground etc.) but this gearing was designed for high-torque at low speeds only, where mileage /wear isn't all that relevant.

 

[JB.]

Front tires on a turning vehicle travel a different arc from the rear. A torsen center differential does not allow for free transfer of torque to the path of least resistance. The result is tires either scrubbing or applying greater force than they otherwise would. This shortens the tires' lifespan. It's easy to test for yourself. Do a steering lock turn in a parking lot in awd. It's easy to feel the binding.

In the IS250 we had it would scrub the tires at full lock, but it's a much different awd system that is rear biased not balanced. And it eats tires like crazy. 15-20k is typical.

Ten years with this truck (sig) and an experimental mindsight -- I'm very familiar with how the awd behaves. To trade anecdotes, my tire life has been nothing but good and in ten years of reading the forum daily (until recently), I've seen no one cite reduced tire wear on their Limited.

We'll agree to disagree, but I think the statement that awd meaningfully reduces tire life (and particularly in the case of the 4runner) is a statement that bears a burden of proof.

 

[Jetboy]

It's basic logic. Tires that experience more resistance wear faster. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it less true.

 

[1engineer]

It's basic logic. Tires that experience more resistance wear faster. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it less true.

You ducked his question. Do you have any documentation other than your mind that shows bias for accelerated tire wear for AWD or full time 4WD vehicles? Easy yes or no.


I have never noticed it myself JB. I have had specific vehicles in the past that have eaten tires but not because of the drive system. Most of the time it was alignment issues. I have pretty much owned every type of 4WD, AWD, FWD or RWD.

 

[Ron4RNevada]

Land Rover Discovery had a 4wd system almost exactly like the T4R Limited - except that the axles on both ends were solid with coil springs.

Tires lasted a very long time.

Gas mileage much worse than T4R -> mostly due to the antiquated 4.6 liter, V8 originally invented by Buick in the 1960s and then constantly modified by LR over the course of 50 years....

 

[Jetboy]

I have no documentation. I don't know that a study has been done.

I doubt you'll find a actual study to "prove" that 4x4 vehicles have shorter tire life than 2wd either. Or that locked differentials shorten tire life.

 

[1engineer]

I have no documentation. I don't know that a study has been done.

I doubt you'll find a actual study to "prove" that 4x4 vehicles have shorter tire life than 2wd either. Or that locked differentials shorten tire life.

Thank you.

 

[jtc44]

It's basic logic. Tires that experience more resistance wear faster. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it less true.

You could also argue that having an AWD system mitigates the wear you reference to multiple tires, thus reducing friction at each one no?

I will admit that when I was younger, I ate through tires on an Audi wagon pretty frequently. I attribute that to being a young and aggressive driver. We have no problems getting tires to last on my wife's Outback because she drives like a granny!

At any rate, an interesting conversation that sounds more anecdotal than anything.

 

[JB.]

I have no documentation. I don't know that a study has been done.

I doubt you'll find a actual study to "prove" that 4x4 vehicles have shorter tire life than 2wd either. Or that locked differentials shorten tire life.

When did we go from "awd" to locked differentials and 4x4?

But that brings up an interesting point. Owners manuals often DO warn about decreased tire life in locked 4x4. Never heard of one yet that did so with awd.

 

[Jetboy]

When did we go from "awd" to locked differentials and 4x4?

But that brings up an interesting point. Owners manuals often DO warn about decreased tire life in locked 4x4. Never heard of one yet that did so with awd.

Have you ever seen the manual of a vehicle that has the option of 2wd or awd? I'm not sure I know of any such vehicle. I don't think you would include it in a manual if there wasn't the option to use 2wd. I think there was once a Pajero for a while that had something like that, but I don't know if that's the case or not.

 

[m85476585]

Have you ever seen the manual of a vehicle that has the option of 2wd or awd? I'm not sure I know of any such vehicle. I don't think you would include it in a manual if there wasn't the option to use 2wd. I think there was once a Pajero for a while that had something like that, but I don't know if that's the case or not.

You're forgetting about 4th gen 4runners. They have the following options:

2WD
4Hi Unlocked with Torsen limited slip center (like AWD)
4Hi with locked center
4Lo with unlocked center
4Lo with locked center

The V8 models are similar, but they have no 2WD option.