Radiator and Eletirc Fan Upgrade

5RUNNERZ

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OK Everyone I have not posted In a really really long time because I have been working on opening my own auto shop/ car dealer and it is up and running and doing really well!

OK so now on to the 4runner stuff! my 3rd gen I bought 3 years ago and have not had to put a penny into fixing anything thing just upgrading it! Now at a 150k I finally have a few basic problems!





all I use only Toyota Brand parts and amsoil oil! I have been doing some powder coating and had it on a lift over night and noticed the leaking rad, leaking valve covers, and leaking a/c dryer. What I want to do is put an all aluminum rad in with the Taurus fan on it! I have not found any threads of any one doing this so Just looking for some input and some does and donts!

Here is a sneak peak of some of the powder coating

 
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Do not do it. I did it and it was way more hassle than its worth and there are really no gains. I am at work right now and cannot really go into details but i can later to night.

Short version. Toyota engineers knew what they were doing with the fan and there are no real noticeable benefits of going to an electric.
 
do it. ive heard others have positive gains from taurus electric fans installed. please do a write up for us all!
 
i like my flexlite fans, maybe 2hp gain:clap2:, i needed efans for my mods tho. ac works way better then stock at idle now
 
These trucks have an excellent cooling system and never seem to overheat, even offroad, crawling in 95+ heat, unless there is a problem with the fan or radiator. The gains from an electric fan will be negligible, and may actually hurt power/mileage if you don't do it right. The Taurus fan pulls 40 amps at high speed (which is half what the stock alternator can put out). Even with a temp cutoff switch so it only runs at low speeds, it will still take a lot more power to run that than the factory clutch fan will take. Now I'm all for efficient cooling systems - I ran a Griffin aluminum radiator and Taurus fan in my 4.6L 65 Mustang, but at 550 HP it needed it. These trucks don't need any help in the cooling department. If yours is overheating, it needs repaired, not re-engineered.
 
OK so the truck does not have any problems and i have been in some really hot nasty woods beating on it and never even budged the temp gauge but I just want bigger and better! Just thinking that these motors could use a little less drag to free up a few more poneys and also to help with the dreaded pink milshake!!! so you guys think dont waste the money??
 
I'd do an external transmission cooler and call it good. I've had mine crawling on very hot days, low range, and never any overheating problems - 202 deg tops. I'd spend the money on other toys instead of something that's not needed and no real benefit. The factory clutch fan disengages when it's not needed (at speed) so there's no savings there, and at low speeds, when that Taurus fan kicks in and pulls 40 amps, that power's got to come from somewhere, so it works the engine harder, using more fuel too. So, for crawling you might end up with LESS available power (though it's probably only a couple of HP).
 
I just think it would be huge peace of mind and just a awesome mod

That's because you haven't thought it through. Anybody who claims more power or better cooling with electric fans is either kidding themselves or had a bad fan clutch to begin with.

Here's the thing with electric fans - drag racers noticed that the stock clutch provides a small amount of drag on the crank pulley, and figured out that they could free up a couple horsepower by eliminating the fan clutch entirely. They add the electric fans to keep the motor cool while they're waiting in line, but turn them off for their run. Other dudes saw the drag racers changing to electric fans, and without questioning why and how they use the fans blindly assume that electric fans mean more power. It ain't true - efans only mean more power when they're off. When they're on, they're no more efficient than the stock fan clutch, and likely less efficient due to losses in the electrical circuit driving them.

I just want bigger and better! Just thinking that these motors could use a little less drag to free up a few more poneys and also to help with the dreaded pink milshake!!! so you guys think dont waste the money??

The pink milkshake is a function of the transmission cooler inside the radiator and has dick-all to do with the fan. Guys who "just want bigger and better" that mod their trucks without understanding exactly a) what they're doing and b)why, are the same guys that screw their trucks up and them dump them on Craigslist because they're "unreliable". You want peace of mind? Mod only as much as you need to and as little as you can get away with in order to make the truck go where you want it to go, that's how you keep a reliable and functional truck. Mod because you want bigger and better and unless you know exactly what you're doing you'll end up with a shitpile.
 
Good info on here. Some replies seem a little bash happy, but thats forums for you...

Anyways, the only benefit I see to a radiator upgrade is shortening it up so it doest hang below the frame. Thats my only complaint on the radiator or cooling system on these 4runners.

If you where to shorten the radiator, it may be necessary to go to efans as the stock fan and clutch will likely be to big.

This will be something ill be looking into, since I hate the low hung radiator.
 
Good info on here. Some replies seem a little bash happy, but thats forums for you...

Anyways, the only benefit I see to a radiator upgrade is shortening it up so it doest hang below the frame. Thats my only complaint on the radiator or cooling system on these 4runners.

If you where to shorten the radiator, it may be necessary to go to efans as the stock fan and clutch will likely be to big.

This will be something ill be looking into, since I hate the low hung radiator.

I agree with the bash happy thing, but I feel like I should defend my fellow bashers! :cheer2: As a more experienced(OLDER) car guy, I see so many ignorant posts supported by more ignorant posts it makes me kind of angry that people are willing to dole out advice without actually knowing what they are talking about. So I may have been guilty of bashing once in a while. :redbrick: I'm working on my tact, just ask my girl friend.

That said, in regard to making your radiator smaller... NOOOOOOOO. heh, I can't tell you strongly enough, make a skid plate, less work, less money and you won't mess up a good thing. Also, the fan clutch is not too big! :whipping2

OK, enough with the Icons!
 
Good info on here. Some replies seem a little bash happy, but thats forums for you...

Anyways, the only benefit I see to a radiator upgrade is shortening it up so it doest hang below the frame. Thats my only complaint on the radiator or cooling system on these 4runners.

If you where to shorten the radiator, it may be necessary to go to efans as the stock fan and clutch will likely be to big.

This will be something ill be looking into, since I hate the low hung radiator.

Yeah the radiator does hang a little low, but the skid plate covers it (and it's pretty well protected behind an ARB bumper). If you went to a shorter radiator, you'd need a different shroud, and maybe an electric fan would make sense (more airflow with a smaller fan). But as iballengineer said, a good skid plate is easier and keeps the good cooling system intact.
 
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this is my post from another thread about 1.5 yrs ago. Not really reliable in my case.

So from the research I did, the flex a light isnlt worth the box it comes in. I used a Lincln mark VIII fan, its a monster pulls a lot of air and a lot of power.

A few down sides, its a pain in get mounted in a way that didnt interfere with the belt system of the engine. There just isnt very much space to work with.

They way i wired it up, i had auto high/low, and manual high/low/off. All worked well for a while. I had it over heat on me twice, both my fault, switch got hit by my knee and was in of mode.

I had a water temp sensor to turn it on. It turned on just fine but never shut off. It was very difficult to get setup. It had such a wide range that it didn't shut off on the freeway because it was always warmer then then shutoff temperature. I am a mechatronic engineer and I was going to setup a microcontroller to turn the fan on and off at certain temperatures but never got around to it. To get the a good controller is very expensive.

Other issue I had was a fuse backed out and let voltage through but not enough current to spin the motor. Easy fix but i ended up braking the fan blade itself and just said screw it and put the stock back in.

I never saw any efficiency benefits. The most annoying part was I ALWAYS had to have it in the back of my mind whether it was going to turn on or off today. Had me glancing at my scan gauge every 2 min while driving to make sure it actually had cooling etc. No one else could use my truck because i was the only one that knew how it worked.

All in all, its not worth the time or money. Stick with stock and don't deal the hassle.

I hope this helps.
 
Well don't know if any one is interested but i did a little research and found out the original radiator was a denso! but if you go to Toyota and buy a "factory" Radiator it is not even a name brand, it is just so of brand radiator that they charge over 200 dollars for!! Talk about stealer ship!! I was talking to my parts lady at my local Toyota about it! so word to the wise always find out who makes the parts you are buying even from the stealer ship!!!
 
so i have done the Efan swap/mod?upgrade... its not as simple as everyone thinks or makes it out to be. i went with flexilite and here is my "story"...

background; i had an issue with my AC a couple years ago and my expansion valve froze or broke. so i didnt have AC for the longest time. well this last summer i decided to fix that, so bought a new dryer, expansion valve and scored a low mileage evaporator. put it all in and vac'd the system and filled it. boom had AC again, but now i presented my self with a new problem... overheating. even at hwy speeds i would run warmer than normal -granted it was high 90-100* days, and in traffic it was too much, id peg the needle if i wasnt careful. i bought a scangauge just to make sure it wasnt a bad sending unit for the dash gauge. and no 220* hwy 210* if it was open air and i could do 70+. and in city or stop and go traffic 240*+. infact id have to shut down the AC and turn on the heat. -i also have dual trans coolers in front of the AC condenser, and 2 big IPF lights as well as my winch control box up front on my bumper in front of the grille, not to mention my ~5400lb daily average curb weight with the larger tires(but i have 4.88 gears)

i had a 2 year old rad, and less than a year on the WP, TB and T-stat. i flushed the coolant but that didnt help. so i figured at 300k the stock clutch fan was giving up the ghost. so i bought a flexilite kit and installed it. i still was having issues, i couldnt keep it cool on the hot days. at night i was ok but anything over 80* ambient temps and i was in trouble. so i bought a 170* thermostat, it helped but was still not the answer. i would still overheat if idling with the AC on.

FYI the flexilite kit that has the adjustable thermostat regulator for the fans is ok, but the wiring they provide with it is crap, not to mention they cant wire corectly. -i ran power to the red wires, and ground to the black wires coming off the fan motors themselves. then come to find out they wired the fans wrong(sorta) one fan was wired backwards so it was pushing air while the other was pulling WTF not to mention its to small gauge wire to handle the load of the fans idk wtf the engineers were thinking at flexilite. so i ripped out all the wiring that came with the kit and redid the wiring myself. this time using 10awg for the main power from the battery to the control box/adjustable thermostat, and from there to the fans themselfs, same with the grounds. then i used 14awg for everything else. i also used much larger awg fuse pocket leads -12awg as it was the biggest i could find. (i fused the power to the adjustable Tstat/regulator from the battery, as well as from the regulator to the fans so i am double fused for protection of any shorting that could happen) i had issues with the fuses getting too hot and actually physically melting down. they would not pop, but the wire wasnt able to handle the load the fans demanded and would literally melt the wires and the rubber fuse pocket as well as the plastic surrounding the fuse element. the fuse however would not pop typically, but the element would fall out of the fuse because the plastic would melt and no longer support it. ok so i got that fixed and wired correctly. but not before having several instances of power loss to the fans and the truck severally overheating ie once saw 276* according to the scangauge -and having coolant boil out of the overflow and all over the ground. -no head gasket failure though and no other damage.

now my issue was i had no place for all that heat to go. so it would build up under the hood and then my air intake temps would just spike and id get predet in the cylinders and eventually id overheat given enough time. so i set out to try two last things before i said F it and would buy a new clutchfan from the dealer and use it. the first was the TRD 160* thermostat used for the TRD supercharged trucks and runners. at $70 its not cheap but i knew that when i went from the stock Tstat to the 170* i saw good improvements and i would probably see more if i went lower still. the other thing i did was order a set of RunCool hood louvers (medium hiflow) for the hood to give all that heat a place to go/escape. now i did both of these mods almost together, Tstat first and a couple of days later. the 160 Tstat did a major improvement and i was not longer overheating at idle or in traffic with the AC on full blast, but i also was not pulling a trailer or pulling any grades so i wanted the extra insurance of the louvers so i installed them -basically templated them on the hood, found the best asymmetrical location for them that would allow for the (IMO) maximum value or gain for ventilation of head, and then cut them out per the instructions. installed the hood louvers and have never looked back. i have no more issues with predet, and a big added benefactor is my intake temps are much much cooler than they used to be, and not nearly as affected by the coolant temps as they used to be.

i have had several days sense then of hot weather as well as multiple heavy loads towed (fullsize f150 long bed extra cab 4x4) up a long steep hill and the temps never got over 220* with the AC full blast. typically im around 190-196*. at night or on the hwy im a little lower ambient air temps have a great impact on this. and city driving im right around 200-204* -note that at 220* the gauge on the dash is no different than ~185* so the stock dash gauge on our 4runners is very liberal in its range. i think it has a "safe operating range" and anything in that it sits at on the gauge like there is no fluctuation, when in reality there is a good amount.

overall i am happy i did this mod, but it was not without its trials and headaches and ulcer creating moments. i would say this is not a simple mod by any means, but rather a complex mod that requires a lot of work and other secondary and tertiary mods to make work. i feel i have this figured out quite well and would have no reservations about doing this mod again, but i would not try to leave out anything i have done. i feel its too risky to not do ALL of this to make it work and be reliable. -the only thing id change and still might is my fuse awg wiring, id like to go to 10awg like everything else and will as soon as i can find some.
 
so i have done the Efan swap/mod?upgrade... its not as simple as everyone thinks or makes it out to be. i went with flexilite and here is my "story"...

even at hwy speeds i would run warmer than normal -granted it was high 90-100* days, and in traffic it was too much, id peg the needle if i wasnt careful. i bought a scangauge just to make sure it wasnt a bad sending unit for the dash gauge. and no 220* hwy 210* if it was open air and i could do 70+. and in city or stop and go traffic 240*+. infact id have to shut down the AC and turn on the heat. -i also have dual trans coolers in front of the AC condenser, and 2 big IPF lights as well as my winch control box up front on my bumper in front of the grille, not to mention my ~5400lb daily average curb weight with the larger tires(but i have 4.88 gears)

This is probably the real problem - too many things in front of the radiator restricting airflow, not to mention that the trans coolers are 'pre-heating' the air flowing into the radiator. If all is working correctly (and nothing blocking air into the radiator) the factory fan should work fine.

i had a 2 year old rad, and less than a year on the WP, TB and T-stat. i flushed the coolant but that didnt help. so i figured at 300k the stock clutch fan was giving up the ghost. so i bought a flexilite kit and installed it.

If you had replaced the factory clutch fan with a new one you probably could have saved yourself a lot of money and work.

i still was having issues, i couldnt keep it cool on the hot days. at night i was ok but anything over 80* ambient temps and i was in trouble. so i bought a 170* thermostat, it helped but was still not the answer. i would still overheat if idling with the AC on.

A lower temperature thermostat will never make a hot running engine run cooler. It only sets the LOW end of the 'warmed up' range; it doesn't limit the high end. If your cooling system has the ability to keep the engine at 150 deg (for example), a 170 deg thermostat will keep the engine from getting any lower than 170 (when it's warmed up), but it will NOT in any way keep it from going through the roof if you have other cooling system problems. These trucks have a cooling system that can cool the engine lower than desired, which is why Toyota puts in 180 deg thermostats - to keep the engine in the 180-200 range to increase mileage and reduce engine wear. The fact that they will run cooler with a lower temp thermostat is evidence the system CAN cool the engine effectively, but Toyota engineers know the ideal temperature is about 180-200 deg. Toyota uses lower temp thermostats in supercharged engines not to keep them from getting hotter (which it won't) but to keep the operating temperature cooler to avoid detonation with the higher cylinder pressures from the supercharger, and they are willing to trade off a little mileage and extra wear to avoid destroying the engine due to detonation.
 
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