I'm resetting the whole fleet and want to get a newer/lower mileage 4R to replace our 2016. I never modified it in any way but should have leveled or slightly lifted it to deal with the rake. I think it has KDSS and I vaguely recall that makes it more difficult/expensive to modify the suspension? I definitely want to do that with the new one, and I want to retain the same manual transfer case, locking diff, crawl control, etc. I like all of the TP options but would like a few more as well. But the 4wd system and the suspension are going to be priorities. What model/options/packages should I be looking at?
Replacing 2016 Trail Premium with a newer model
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thatoneguy
New member
You should get a 2021+ to get the latest interior, screen, gauges, all that. You should get a 2023+ "premium" trim to get a heated steering wheel, it's awesome. Really the only trim that's going to fit the bill for you is TRD Offroad or TRD Offroad Premium, that and PRO are the only ways to get a manual transfer case lever (keep in mind it's the same transfer case as other trims, just with a manual instead of electrical actuator, and that you're still depending on the electric front diff actuator either way).
I love my 2023 Offroad Premium (ORP). 2023+ also gets you more goodies like rear cross traffic alert and blind spot monitoring, both of which I've come to really like. I would make sure you buy one without KDSS optioned, check the window sticker.
I've been seeing a LOT of 2023-2024 ORP's for sale used. I guess people got sick of the 2010 powertrain performance in such a newer vehicle. Should mean good deals on lightly used.
I love my 2023 Offroad Premium (ORP). 2023+ also gets you more goodies like rear cross traffic alert and blind spot monitoring, both of which I've come to really like. I would make sure you buy one without KDSS optioned, check the window sticker.
I've been seeing a LOT of 2023-2024 ORP's for sale used. I guess people got sick of the 2010 powertrain performance in such a newer vehicle. Should mean good deals on lightly used.
If you like what you have, and don't want the easier-to-steal Keyless entry, or the TSSS, or the connected services spying on you, a clean low-mile 2019 TRD ORP might be what you want.
As for KDSS, if you want to lift it more than 3", it can become more involved. Personally, I wouldn't have bought a 5th gen without KDSS. If you currently have that, drive one without it before deciding.
T4R_Canuck
Member
I consider the 2014 - 2018 Trail/Trd Offrod Premium the holy grail of 5th gen 4Runners and i'm lucky enough to have a 2014. Pre-Toyota Safety Sense, push button start, adaptive cruise, lane keep assist and all the extra bullxxxx that comes on them in the 2020 + models. They have bluetooth for music/calls, TPMS, Backup cameras and a key to start the vehicle. It was the absolute perfect time for a vehicle.
So.......... how many miles on your 16' and do you want to sell it? lol
To answer your question, the 2020 + models are slightly more updated with a lot of extra garbage features to try and sell a few more units to people who would have normally considered only crossovers. If you like the manual transfer case handle, you'll need to stick with TRD OR or ORP.
CutthroatSlam
Senior Member
Whaddabout those steering wheel hand warmers? Serious game changer
thatoneguy
New member
Different people prefer different things, of course. It's hard for me to look at the 2014-2019ish gauge cluster, I think it looks horrible, while I think the 2020+ cluster looks terrific.
I don't really use the adaptive part of the cruise much, but the blind spot monitoring is nice, and rear cross-traffic alert keeps saving me from racecar dipshits in parking lots. I like the modern TPMS per-wheel readouts. I prefer the pushbutton and I put my fob in a faraday cage at night anyway, so no one's boosting this signal and stealing it from my driveway. I do enjoy the carplay capable, if still antiquated, stereo headunit.
Of course, not every demands these things, but I like them. And if I was bothering to re-up a 5th gen to "drive one forever", I'd want the newest one with the newest and least rusted frame.
Humble Leader
Senior Member
very important point haha, especially in road salt paradises
I've had both a '16 Trail Premium w/ KDSS and a '23 Pro. The push button start, heated steering wheel, CarPlay, and 360 camera were definitely noticeable upgrades on the '23. I used them all the time. The lane departure warning and radar cruise were clearly shoehorned into an old platform and were disappointing. I pretty much turned them off immediately despite really liking the TSS 3.0 systems on other modern Toyotas.
IMO, with your truck at this age, you aren't going to get a ton of money out of it and you'll pay a premium on a late model 5th gen thanks to a lull in production while they prepared for the 6th gen. I'd really consider driving it into the ground at this point. You're going to spend a lot of money to just hit reset on the odometer and pick up some features that aren't huge game changers.
IMO, with your truck at this age, you aren't going to get a ton of money out of it and you'll pay a premium on a late model 5th gen thanks to a lull in production while they prepared for the 6th gen. I'd really consider driving it into the ground at this point. You're going to spend a lot of money to just hit reset on the odometer and pick up some features that aren't huge game changers.
Sorry, folks, I've been a bit distracted looking at newer models. To answer some of the questions...
First, it has just under 100K miles and yes, it will be for sale very shortly (pm me if interested). It's in good to very good condition. KBB gave me an estimated private party sale of about $24K. Someone mentioned losing value. I paid ~35K, I think, in 2018ish with about 30K miles. So it's held value well.
Secondly, for the first time in my life, all 3 of my cars are free and clear and under 100K in miles. Two are about to cross that threshold. I don't need 3, so I think it's a good time to hit reset and get lower mileage cars again by reducing the numbers. Just bought a 22 Tacoma DCLB TRD OR on a whim. I don't like it, so it'll be the first to go.
Third, ours is well equipped, but I would like to get Apple Carplay and remote start. I'm a bit obsessive about tire pressures, so I'd like to be able to see those. That's about it other than clawing back about 70-80K miles, which is the top priority. People may joke about the heated steering wheel, but I had it on an e60 and it was pretty freaking nice. But it won't be a driver in this decision. I put the Bilstein AAL on the Tacoma and it came with TRD wheels, XP package, and Duratraks. I want to do the same thing to the new 4R. Sure, I could just upgrade the one that I have, but I don't want to do that with 100K miles on the clock.
So that's the thought process. Looking at your replies, it looks like it's a OR or ORP. The PRO just pushes the budget boundaries too much.
First, it has just under 100K miles and yes, it will be for sale very shortly (pm me if interested). It's in good to very good condition. KBB gave me an estimated private party sale of about $24K. Someone mentioned losing value. I paid ~35K, I think, in 2018ish with about 30K miles. So it's held value well.
Secondly, for the first time in my life, all 3 of my cars are free and clear and under 100K in miles. Two are about to cross that threshold. I don't need 3, so I think it's a good time to hit reset and get lower mileage cars again by reducing the numbers. Just bought a 22 Tacoma DCLB TRD OR on a whim. I don't like it, so it'll be the first to go.
Third, ours is well equipped, but I would like to get Apple Carplay and remote start. I'm a bit obsessive about tire pressures, so I'd like to be able to see those. That's about it other than clawing back about 70-80K miles, which is the top priority. People may joke about the heated steering wheel, but I had it on an e60 and it was pretty freaking nice. But it won't be a driver in this decision. I put the Bilstein AAL on the Tacoma and it came with TRD wheels, XP package, and Duratraks. I want to do the same thing to the new 4R. Sure, I could just upgrade the one that I have, but I don't want to do that with 100K miles on the clock.
So that's the thought process. Looking at your replies, it looks like it's a OR or ORP. The PRO just pushes the budget boundaries too much.
thatoneguy
New member
IIRC, remote start is Limited and PRO only. And it's a garbage version that shuts the damned engine off when you open the door, so you have to start the engine again.
Offroad Premium is the ultimate trim. Everything you need, without the vast expense of getting the extra little PRO bits. Those bolt-on accessories and trick front suspension (with no KDSS option if you care) is not even remotely worth the PRO premium to me. As far as the great letter grille, I put a quality aftermarket one on for under $200 this year.
I bet you could get a good deal on a lightly used '24 ORP. There seems to be a lot of '23/'24 ORPs available used, perhaps their original owners were disappointed in them.
Interesting. I assumed that any keyless start would have remote start with it. And yes, my Tacoma has it and having to restart is annoying as f. Further, the whole Taco community just went through this ridiculous process where Toyota apparently disabled it for anyone that was not subscribed to the Service Connect (Toyota tracking). They are offering what appears to be a 10-year trial to that subscription at zero costs, but it also appears that the remote start will only work if you enable this tracking by Toyota. You do have the option to prohibit them from selling your car's info. Still, pretty annoying situation.
4Runners are good for like 250,000 miles if you take care of them so I wouldn't worry too much about it getting to 100k miles.
Here are some add ons you can do to your 4Runner to modernize it to include an aftermarket heated steering wheel. I've put these in mine and basically made it a new vehicle and my 4Runner is a 2015 Trail Premium with 75,000 miles.
Heated Steering Wheel Perforated Leather For Toyota 4Runner 2010-2022 / Tacoma 2012-2023 / Tundra 2014-2021
VR Tuned ECU Flash Tune Toyota 4Runner VRT-TOY-4RN-270 | Vivid Racing
10-24 4Runner Bilstein 5100 Complete Shock Kit 10204RUN4WD
Sony XAV-9500ES Plug & Play Bundle | '10 - '24 4Runner
– Trail Grid Pro
Kicker Plug & Play 8 Speaker Bundle | '10 - '24 4Runner
– Trail Grid Pro
Here are some add ons you can do to your 4Runner to modernize it to include an aftermarket heated steering wheel. I've put these in mine and basically made it a new vehicle and my 4Runner is a 2015 Trail Premium with 75,000 miles.
Heated Steering Wheel Perforated Leather For Toyota 4Runner 2010-2022 / Tacoma 2012-2023 / Tundra 2014-2021
VR Tuned ECU Flash Tune Toyota 4Runner VRT-TOY-4RN-270 | Vivid Racing
10-24 4Runner Bilstein 5100 Complete Shock Kit 10204RUN4WD
Sony XAV-9500ES Plug & Play Bundle | '10 - '24 4Runner
– Trail Grid Pro
Kicker Plug & Play 8 Speaker Bundle | '10 - '24 4Runner
– Trail Grid Pro
thatoneguy
New member
Certainly the most economically sound thing to do. As long as your frame never goes, it could be eternal.
for TPMS and other vehicle info..
install a Kenwood / idatalink maestro compatilble head unit.
if you have tpms tire sensors.. the idatalink/ kenwood head unit will offer you TPMS / other gauge vehicle information, not available via the OEM head unit.
the head unit needs to be idatalnk maestro compatible..
install a Kenwood / idatalink maestro compatilble head unit.
if you have tpms tire sensors.. the idatalink/ kenwood head unit will offer you TPMS / other gauge vehicle information, not available via the OEM head unit.
the head unit needs to be idatalnk maestro compatible..
Hungryhawk
Member
I did not notice if any posts considered license fees and insurance costs. Usually older is cheaper.
A downside can be insurance value if your truck if totaled in a wreck. You might consider a fixed value replacement cost versus the market value replacement value. Especially if you invest in proactive deep maintenance.
For my family, 200 k miles and 20 years of age is when I find new home for a family vehicle.
A benefit of our 4runners with stock suspension is finding inexpensive "take off parts"
when other owners upgrade their trucks.
A downside can be insurance value if your truck if totaled in a wreck. You might consider a fixed value replacement cost versus the market value replacement value. Especially if you invest in proactive deep maintenance.
For my family, 200 k miles and 20 years of age is when I find new home for a family vehicle.
A benefit of our 4runners with stock suspension is finding inexpensive "take off parts"
when other owners upgrade their trucks.
Hungryhawk
Member
I like seeing my tire pressure when driving.
I mounted a Scangauge2 on my 2017SR5 steering column with their supplied velcro. It outputs all 4 tires. I color coded my tire stems with a dab of color paint so I know what tire is mounted in a particular position after tire balance and rotation.
Plus I can observe many engine, electrical, tranny conditions on the road and deal with and CEL lights.
I mounted a Scangauge2 on my 2017SR5 steering column with their supplied velcro. It outputs all 4 tires. I color coded my tire stems with a dab of color paint so I know what tire is mounted in a particular position after tire balance and rotation.
Plus I can observe many engine, electrical, tranny conditions on the road and deal with and CEL lights.
Every Day OutDoors
Member
IMHO the new ones are a downgrade from the 2014-2019, I don't want or need the adaptive crap on it, it is also something more electronic to go wrong. I used to think push button was an upgrade, but after being stuck on a trail in the middle of nowhere with one in our group having key issues and not being able to figure out what was going on with it, I would never get a offroad vehicle with it.
The only problem that is going to start presenting itself is electronics, these are the only issues I have had on my 2018 that is been heavily used off road, and adding more electronics to the mix is a bad idea imho. I just looked at the heated steering wheel upgrade that was posted above this, and have been looking at various head unit upgrades to upgrade the sound system, I feel those are the first worthwhile interior upgrades I have seen.
The only problem that is going to start presenting itself is electronics, these are the only issues I have had on my 2018 that is been heavily used off road, and adding more electronics to the mix is a bad idea imho. I just looked at the heated steering wheel upgrade that was posted above this, and have been looking at various head unit upgrades to upgrade the sound system, I feel those are the first worthwhile interior upgrades I have seen.
T4R_Canuck
Member
Yea, i'm with you on this opinion but I'll give a caveat as well. IF, i was buying a 4Runner to use a commuter vehicle, family hauler and spending most of my time on highways and commuting around town, I have less issues with the newer models. In my usage situation where it's a secondary vehicle, used mostly for off roading and isn't used as a family hauler, I'd highly prefer to have as few of the new electronic gimmicks as possible. There are reasons why such things and KDSS on/off switches and ABS off switches exist for people who use their vehicles off road.
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