LawnDart
Senior Member
Spring. I'll ask ARB on a timeframe when I'm there for the install.
Safari snorkel on a 5th gen?
- Thread starter iRide4Runner
- Start date
Spring. I'll ask ARB on a timeframe when I'm there for the install.
LawnDart
Senior Member
Not that I'm trying to jump your shit, but I'm about to jump your shit here...
Look, I'm sorry this offends your tastes in aesthetics, but do you think Safari's engineers were sitting around saying, "you know what, we're really smart guys, so lets build a set of snorkels for the new Taco and 5th Gen 4Runner, and make them really big because we're lazy aussies. That'll just totally f*ck with those yanks! Now go get me a Fosters, mate!"
Consider the fact that the outside of the 4Runner front quarter panel is exteremly round, and that the design has to be rounded to keep the amount of air something their engineers have deemed correct.
If you look at the new Taco shown at SEMA it looks the same design. Notice the ridge in the bodywork and how it eats up a lot of space:
Look I get that this offends your sensibilities, but I've been out to the Oregon desert about a half dozen times and I'm getting sick and tired of my air filter looking like dogshit.
This is a pure function upgrade, and frankly I think it looks great on rigs.
And lastly, lets have a reality check here. Do you know anything about manufacturing? Injection modeling is incredibly cheap...ONCE you've spent the hundreds of thousands of dollars on building the dies. Let me give you an example, I helped design the Wacom Cintiq 24HD, which is a big touch screen art tablet. Our industrial designers worked with the mold makers in Japan to create all the dies, and one of the big back pieces of that bezel cost 350K, as in 350 THOUSAND dollars to have machined. We had to change that design 3 times. Just before .1 cent of plastic could be molded into it by the thousands.
So when you say, "maybe Safari will build us a slimmer one for 20-40 orders" I want to facepalm so hard I'd blow out the back of my skull. Now that you understand the costs involved, lets give Safari some respect that they're even showing interest in our series of vehicles. I believe ARB/SAFARI is invested right now hardcore into getting a 3rd Gen Taco snorkel out, why? because Tacomas outsell 4Runners by a ridiculous margin. As another example a good buddy of mine is the owner/founder of one of the most popular pistol Holster companies out there, Raven Concealment. You know why they don't make holsters for your Ruger LCP? Because Glock outsells them by a factor of 1000:1.
Again I just wanted to put this in perspective.
TheWraith
New member
Thanks... but you don't know me or where I came from. I'm one of the first manufacturers of electronic cigarettes state side. So I do know to some extended about design and cost of items in a smaller scale...
I still stand by my statements. And you actually said it yourself in your own words. This platform isn't given enough respect because we are the Ruger LCP compared to the Tacoma platfotm. That's why we aren't getting our own design...
I still stand by my statements. And you actually said it yourself in your own words. This platform isn't given enough respect because we are the Ruger LCP compared to the Tacoma platfotm. That's why we aren't getting our own design...
Titanpat57
Senior Member
Just an update. I can confirm it IS a tad bit thinner. If you're hoping for Kate Moss thin then I'm sorry to disappoint.
It's about a half inch thinner and if I had to guess it's likely so that they can use these on Diesel and Gas vehicles and share one product.
Thanks for the updates and leg work....
no good deed goes unpunished around this place, that's for sure..
LawnDart
Senior Member
I know enough to know you are out of your lane when it comes to complex injection molding and the scale at which it becomes profitable. Stand by your statements, go ask ARB and maybe if you get 20 people they'll eat the ENORMOUS cost of R&D to make one that looks smaller. I'll go sit by this lake in hell and wait for it to freeze over.
You say respect? No, it's pure economics. I do apologize, Ruger LCP is an insult comparing it to a glock, those are garbage. Safari's priority is to spend the money on the product they can sell that'll make the most money first, and then take care of us 5th gens. Do you see Safari saying "no snorkels for you!"? No, absolutely not, we're in the queue. Not as fast as we want, but we're being supported.
But a lack of respect? Dude, we're a small market share compared to other vehicles like Ford F150s, Tacos, etc. And as such they take care of those guys first because the cost on this stuff is astronomical to make until you make it in enough scale.
LawnDart
Senior Member
Can't please everyone. Maybe we should just all buy that non-UV balanced chicom version.
TheWraith
New member
When I said let's show them that they will have the support. By show them 20 to 40 people are ready and willing to buy one right now. It's a sample of the market.
You may know manufacturing in injection molds but I do have experience in marketing anf prototyping.
If you show a manufacturer that there is support or there is need for the product. That little 20 unit order might sway them...
Is what I suggested...
Titanpat57
Senior Member
I doubt there's anything to satisfy the whiny, would ***** about being hung with new rope crowd. They need something to constantly make them feel warm and fuzzy, and I guess this ain't it
If you don't like the ****ing thing then don't buy it.....this guy was gracious enough to spend his time, gas money and effort to do this for the community and keep us up to date several times.
TheWraith
New member
You can say what you want ...
Ain't knocking him for helping in prototyoping with the company. Much respect to him for using his time that way... I'm knocking the penny pitchers in the said company.
LawnDart
Senior Member
How is it penny pinching? What's your evidence?
Titanpat57
Senior Member
Your points about ARB are moot. Do you think that ARB is waiting from a group buy from us to make this happen? They researched a product, engineered it, designed it to work with the platform, did fittings, did testing and have to guarantee it to work....what else would you have them do??? It cost money, lots of money to do this.....and I'm sure it'll be quite a while before they even sell enough units to even break even.
LawnDart
Senior Member
Look, this is self-serving on my part. I wanted a snorkel, and in a tit for tat my truck is being used for some commercials as a picture vehicle, and I'm also paying Safari for the snorkel. It'll be replaced by the production unit when the first batch ships. The reason I wanted a Safari snorkel is that ARB, and their sub-brands, have integrity and amazing warranties. I was NOT going to drill huge holes in my 43K dollar truck for a product who's customer service rep in China can barely string a coherent sentence together when he's sending an email explaining why my chicom snorkel broke.
I've been pestering ARB for this snorkel since April, and worked a deal where they benefit from a vehicle that's routinely driving a thousand miles every few weeks for my work (I work in film production mostly now, in remote areas usually. Product design was just 3 years of a detour I would rather take back.
My goal was to prod this along, I don't claim to have influenced it whatsoever. My truck is purely a test mule, with the benefit of me getting a snorkel 3-4 months before everyone else, ARB gets some engineering results, and I get a snorkel, win win.
Look I understand your belief that that makes a difference, but it doesn't. 20-40 people do not indicate a MARKET interest. They represent a fringe corner case. Again likely these molds cost at a minimum 100K, that means to break even they'd have to sell 200 units in the fantasy land that precluded things like material costs, R&D time, packaging, shipping, etc.
Also again do you think Safari is just screwing with us for fun? Have you considered the fact that their engineers said "based on engine requirements, body shape, etc, this is the shape we're confident of handling the design specs needed!"
Would I have loved a thinner model? Sure. But it's a functional upgrade.
Wraith, I don't mean to make an antagonist out of you, like some bizzaro world version of that scene from Step Brothers, "Did we just become enemies?" "YUUUUUP!"
But if a snorkel isn't right for you it's not right for you, but Safari builds accessories for vehicles that go out to life or death places in Australia, tougher places then we'll ever put our trucks through. To imply they are lazy isn't just misinformed it's insulting.
Safari is doing us a solid here. I trust them enough to put 12 holes in a perfectly nice truck.
USMCRUNNER
New member
Looks good to me and thanks for the leg work Lawndart! Now to stock up on all the beer I'll need after I put a hole in my fender lol!
LawnDart
Senior Member
Thanks dude. I'll be off at the ARB facility first week of January. I'll document the install, while I cry deeply as they punch huge holes in the quarter panel.
Titanpat57
Senior Member
I certainly get that, and absolutely don't blame you...as I would do the exact same thing if the opportunity presented itself. What chaffs my ass are the comments made by folks that are clueless to the process, and the lack of respect for others time.
A snorkel is not for everyone...but some of us have been waiting for a long time for a decent one to appear. The first batch, although not my taste (after seeing Safari's for years) was put together as a group buy by a dedicated member here,for a ton of work, and I'm sure very little profit, if any. Your time is appreciated [MENTION=124732]LawnDart[/MENTION]
USMCRUNNER
New member
Awesome! Sadly I'll be moving back to Missouri and leaving the awesomeness of Idaho that week
Look forward to your feedback!
LawnDart
Senior Member
I forgot to mention this anecdote as well, but you reminded me.
I had dinner with a creative director at Lund International a few weeks back, parent company of Bushwacker. It's no secret I have been bugging the ever loving bejeezus out of Bushwacker for their fender flares.
He mentioned the struggle they have, which is that some Jeep owners, older model or smaller niche models, keep asking them, "When are you going to release this flare set for my XYZ model of Jeep?!" And the reality is that Bushwacker has to focus on the products that make the most money, and after a certain timeframe it doesn't make sense for them to support a generation of vehicle that could be considered on the way out for the new hotness.
So in that respect we're very lucky that Bushwacker and Safari are supporting the 5th gen when they could simply say, "guys sorry but the 6th gen is maybe 1-2 years out, and we'll give support for that as sales on the 5th gen aren't as red hot now."
Again it's a game of logistics and actual market interest.
MTN4RNR
New member
Lets just bring Toyota Motor Corp. into this, they're the biggest penny pinchers out there!:flamethrwoer2:
