Should I get out of a 4Runner??

[hikenbike]

Since my wife recently got a new Mercedes GLC 300, I've been enjoying riding in it and its so much more comfortable than my 4Runner. As a result, I've been seriously thinking of getting something that can provide the capabilities to keep up with my active lifestyle (avid mountain biker, skier, hiker, etc.) for utility but offer far more comfort...... and in a smaller package.

I have a '16 Trail Premium with KDSS with only 31k in phenomenal shape (i'm a detailing hobbyist) and although it gives me peace of mind that my 4Runner is ultra-reliable and will get me anywhere, anytime, I will go look at an Outback later today.

Any other suggestions (other than a Highlander which I'm familiar with and may be too big/cumbersome or a Rav4 which seems too raspy) for something that has good utility, comfort, and power?

Thanks.

 

[5thToy]

That's interesting. I recently went from your GLC's predecessor, a GLK 350, back to the 4Runner (used to have an 03). I miss the power and road handling of the Merc, sure, but that thing was too small and kept me from the backroads I love.

I went to the Toyota dealer thinking I might go for a new RAV4 and couldn't pull the trigger after a test drive. Ended up with another 4Runner. I say keep yours based on the lifestyle you described. A Subie might work for you, but the CVT was a deal killer for me.

 

[MAST4R]

I came to my 2018 Offroad Premium from a 2013 H6 5 EAT Outback that saw more 4x4 trails than most 4Rs will ever taste.

There are huge differences, obviously, even though there is some overlap as well.

Offroad:
The Outback with good AT tires will get you places most people think it cannot, especially if you get the H6 or coming turbo version. However, it is nowhere in the same league as an Offroad Edition 4R. I am not only talking terrain too hard for an OB. I am also talking terrain like the Alpine Loop or the White Rim Road where the 4R will be faster and more comfortable. If you think the 4R is not comfy offroad, wait till you try a crossover.... Another disadvantage of a lesser vehicle offroad is the inability to easily use 4x4 guides and to explore blindly. I always learned as much as possible about any 4x4 trails I took the Outback on. You cannot easily figure it out on the basis of guides like Wells' for UT/CO/AZ/CA. But if you drive nothing worse than rough forest roads and easy 4x4 trails then the Outback can compete, definitely better handling and speeds on 2wd terrain unless you upgrade the 4R suspension to a performance one. On moderate trails, a stock 4R will obliterate the best prepared Outback (mine was pretty well prepared). You are not taking an Outback on any difficult rated trails (unless they have been improved recently, like me on Governor Basin).

On road:
Handling and cornering: I have not installed my 6112/Icon 2.0 combo yet, but the 4R Offroad Edition on stock suspension--or stock shocks with aftermarket coils (as I am temporarily)--is a joke compared to an Outback, even in dry weather. So this is the flip side of the off-road situation.

Maintenance/reliability:
I got my 2013 H6 5EAT for being about as reliable as non-Toyota vehicles get. With nearly 4,000 unpaved miles I was on stock shocks at 73,000 when I traded it in. The CVT reliability is one of those debates that won't end soon. The high performance version on the H6 and XT models performs great on road.

Cargo: The 4R kills the Outback. It is not even funny. This was even more important to me than the offroad capability. In addition, the 4R is also much better than the Ascent despite the nominally equally sized cargo areas. The 4R's is much better shaped for cargo whereas the Ascent is really made for that third row of seats with a cargo area that is too deep and not tall enough; it also sits much higher than the 4R's.

In sum, there is overlap, but they are truly as different as their constructions suggest. The 4R rocks offroad and in hauling stuff, the Outback is a joy to drive in rain and snow. Bear in mind that in places like AZ, the OB sloping windshield exposes you to the sun a lot more than the 4R's small, more forward located windshield.

EDIT: I should add that I am not a fan of H4 CVT (or previously 4EAT) models. They are too basic and utilitarian for my taste and excel at nothing. They are really for people who consider their vehicles nothing more than an unfortunate necessity. When loaded up heavily, they are not very economical either.

 

[cb1111]

And herein lies the 4R conundrum - the 4R is a technological dinosaur and for that very reason is reliable.

The MB is technologically advanced and is not reliable. Maintenance is expensive as is insurance.

The Subie is somewhere in between. The transmission is a huge downside and it doesn't fit into any category - is it a big wagon or is it a small CUV.

Spend time on any MB or Subie forum and the vast majority of posts are about problems. Here, problems are in the minority and are generally annoyances - door locks, window switches and so forth.

You need to decide what your priorities are and only you can do that.

 

[mteolus]

Don't get anything with a CVT transmission. Avoid turbo's as well. Not sure you why you don't like the Rav4, I think the new Rav4 TRD Off-road with 8.7 inches of ground clearance would be a decent alternative perhaps except for the price.

 

[LandCruiser]

I have a Macan and a Trail.

I drive both around the Bay Area about as much, but prefer the Porsche on long highway hauls.

 

[hikenbike]

I came to my 2018 Offroad Premium from a 2013 H6 5 EAT Outback that saw more 4x4 trails than most 4Rs will ever taste.

There are huge differences, obviously, even though there is some overlap as well.

Offroad:
The Outback with good AT tires will get you places most people think it cannot, especially if you get the H6 or coming turbo version. However, it is nowhere in the same league as an Offroad Edition 4R. I am not only talking terrain too hard for an OB. I am also talking terrain like the Alpine Loop or the White Rim Road where the 4R will be faster and more comfortable. If you think the 4R is not comfy offroad, wait till you try a crossover.... Another disadvantage of a lesser vehicle offroad is the inability to easily use 4x4 guides and to explore blindly. I always learned as much as possible about any 4x4 trails I took the Outback on. You cannot easily figure it out on the basis of guides like Wells' for UT/CO/AZ/CA. But if you drive nothing worse than rough forest roads and easy 4x4 trails then the Outback can compete, definitely better handling and speeds on 2wd terrain unless you upgrade the 4R suspension to a performance one. On moderate trails, a stock 4R will obliterate the best prepared Outback (mine was pretty well prepared). You are not taking an Outback on any difficult rated trails (unless they have been improved recently, like me on Governor Basin).

On road:
Handling and cornering: I have not installed my 6112/Icon 2.0 combo yet, but the 4R Offroad Edition on stock suspension--or stock shocks with aftermarket coils (as I am temporarily)--is a joke compared to an Outback, even in dry weather. So this is the flip side of the off-road situation.

Maintenance/reliability:
I got my 2013 H6 5EAT for being about as reliable as non-Toyota vehicles get. With nearly 4,000 unpaved miles I was on stock shocks at 73,000 when I traded it in. The CVT reliability is one of those debates that won't end soon. The high performance version on the H6 and XT models performs great on road.

Cargo: The 4R kills the Outback. It is not even funny. This was even more important to me than the offroad capability. In addition, the 4R is also much better than the Ascent despite the nominally equally sized cargo areas. The 4R's is much better shaped for cargo whereas the Ascent is really made for that third row of seats with a cargo area that is too deep and not tall enough; it also sits much higher than the 4R's.

In sum, there is overlap, but they are truly as different as their constructions suggest. The 4R rocks offroad and in hauling stuff, the Outback is a joy to drive in rain and snow. Bear in mind that in places like AZ, the OB sloping windshield exposes you to the sun a lot more than the 4R's small, more forward located windshield.

EDIT: I should add that I am not a fan of H4 CVT (or previously 4EAT) models. They are too basic and utilitarian for my taste and excel at nothing. They are really for people who consider their vehicles nothing more than an unfortunate necessity. When loaded up heavily, they are not very economical either.

Thanks for this breakdown. Very helpful. I don’t and won’t do heavy off roading so at this point in my life the OB fits what I need. I just drove one and it was very nice but it’s rush hour and couldn’t really drive it at speed. Will have to drive it again.

 

[hikenbike]

Don't get anything with a CVT transmission. Avoid turbo's as well. Not sure you why you don't like the Rav4, I think the new Rav4 TRD Off-road with 8.7 inches of ground clearance would be a decent alternative perhaps except for the price.

Avoiding turbos will be nearly impossible after next year. They are everywhere and every manufacturer can’t be that wrong. They’re far better than 15 years ago. They’re putting them in pickups now.

 

[hikenbike]

And herein lies the 4R conundrum - the 4R is a technological dinosaur and for that very reason is reliable.

The MB is technologically advanced and is not reliable. Maintenance is expensive as is insurance.

The Subie is somewhere in between. The transmission is a huge downside and it doesn't fit into any category - is it a big wagon or is it a small CUV.

Spend time on any MB or Subie forum and the vast majority of posts are about problems. Here, problems are in the minority and are generally annoyances - door locks, window switches and so forth.

You need to decide what your priorities are and only you can do that.

Quite the contrary. The GLC300 is very reliable and I spent tons of time on forums. Nothing but cosmetic/non-essential stuff, maintenance, and warranty’s are discussed. They’re very nice cars that have proven very reliable.

 

[MAST4R]

Avoiding turbos will be nearly impossible after next year. They are everywhere and every manufacturer can’t be that wrong. They’re far better than 15 years ago. They’re putting them in pickups now.

I agree. The bad rep Subaru turbos get comes from how folks like to drive their WRXs and FXTs.

 

[SpeedyKevin]

I came from a 2016 outback. Really could never fall in love with the CVT. The ride definitely was a bit more comfortable than the 4runner on the highway but wasn't too big of a deal for me. I did like the software features however, there were several occasions where all the dash lights lit up while we were in the middle of no where. Wasn't really confidence inspiring. Cargo space was an issue for us as we mountaineer/backpack quite a bit with our friends and 4 mountaineering/backpacking packs didn't fit too well in the back.

 

[thennen]

If that’s what you prefer, get it. They’re two significantly different vehicles. You might get better information on the Mercedes forum, seeking out prior owners of 4Runners and asking how they feel after switching from the Runner years ago. You won’t find that info here.

 

[Thai]

For me, i had a 2012 Outback........that was/is a POS. Battery dies after 12-16 months...twice (Subi battery, not aftermarket). Rattles galore. Engine noise and then at around 50k, the engine rattles. My wife's sister then took over it...and at 90k miles or so, stranded her on the side of road due to electronics.

I may be an outlier but that experience greatly sour my view of Subaru. For me, Subi looks great on paper...unique look, high ground clearance, AWD, great fuel economy...but the actual ownership experience was not that good.

If you want luxury ride and capability, then why not get a Lexus GX? A used one? I know that it is expensive...but may be worth the investment since it was named #1 most reliable vehicle in 2018 by Consumer Reports, bar none. It may not be as smooth as your MB, but it is far more comfy than 4runner...small package...yet still capable.

What is your price range? Are you willing to go used?

Other options: Honda Ridgeline (smooth operator yet pretty good package for your active style). Honda Passport (SUV version of Ridgeline). Lexus NX.

 

[LandCruiser]

For me, i had a 2012 Outback........that was/is a POS. Battery dies after 12-16 months...twice (Subi battery, not aftermarket). Rattles galore. Engine noise and then at around 50k, the engine rattles. My wife's sister then took over it...and at 90k miles or so, stranded her on the side of road due to electronics.

I may be an outlier but that experience greatly sour my view of Subaru. For me, Subi looks great on paper...unique look, high ground clearance, AWD, great fuel economy...but the actual ownership experience was not that good.

If you want luxury ride and capability, then why not get a Lexus GX? A used one? I know that it is expensive...but may be worth the investment since it was named #1 more reliable vehicle in 2018 by Consumer Reports, bar none. It may not be as smooth as your MB, but it is far more comfy than 4runner...small package...yet still capable.

What is your price range? Are you willing to go used?

I have a 2016 4 banger that has over 90k miles on it and nothing has gone wrong with it.

My parents mostly drove it, badly, in Colorado winters. Now it lives in front of my house here in CA. It hasn't even rusted like my Toyota.

 

[Thai]

I have a 2016 4 banger that has over 90k miles on it and nothing has gone wrong with it.

My parents mostly drove it, badly, in Colorado winters. Now it lives in front of my house here in CA. It hasn't even rusted like my Toyota.

I may be an outlier. And my 2012 was not first model year...so, it was shockingly bad for us. Weird.

 

[osugsxr]

audi sq5 is a fun crossover suv, AWD and sporty

 

[mteolus]

Thanks for this breakdown. Very helpful. I don’t and won’t do heavy off roading so at this point in my life the OB fits what I need. I just drove one and it was very nice but it’s rush hour and couldn’t really drive it at speed. Will have to drive it again.

Subaru Transmissions, fatal flaw

 

[hikenbike]

Subaru Transmissions, fatal flaw

Who’s this? Rush Limbaugh light? No thanks. Didn’t make it 21 seconds. What a boob.

 

[hikenbike]

audi sq5 is a fun crossover suv, AWD and sporty

Thanks and I agree they’re nice but don’t want a second luxury brand. Will eventually eat my wallet.

 

[hikenbike]

For me, i had a 2012 Outback........that was/is a POS. Battery dies after 12-16 months...twice (Subi battery, not aftermarket). Rattles galore. Engine noise and then at around 50k, the engine rattles. My wife's sister then took over it...and at 90k miles or so, stranded her on the side of road due to electronics.

I may be an outlier but that experience greatly sour my view of Subaru. For me, Subi looks great on paper...unique look, high ground clearance, AWD, great fuel economy...but the actual ownership experience was not that good.

If you want luxury ride and capability, then why not get a Lexus GX? A used one? I know that it is expensive...but may be worth the investment since it was named #1 most reliable vehicle in 2018 by Consumer Reports, bar none. It may not be as smooth as your MB, but it is far more comfy than 4runner...small package...yet still capable.

What is your price range? Are you willing to go used?

Other options: Honda Ridgeline (smooth operator yet pretty good package for your active style). Honda Passport (SUV version of Ridgeline). Lexus NX.

Thanks but I don’t want a truck the size of the GX and I really don’t like the look. Just saw one on the Garden State Parkway 3 hours ago. Not my cup of tea at all. Nor do I like the look of the Honda’s and I really tried to like the Passport but couldn’t. Rode nice enough but all the Honda’s these days are simply boring and do nothing for me.

For the Outback, I really liked the pep the 3.6 had but wish it had a sportier seat. Zero lateral support so it’s made for wide bodies. Liked everything else about it. Comes with a lot of great features and they came down to $33900 from $39 but only offered $30k for the 4runner. I’d have to sell on my own, which I likely will do.


I’d consider the NX if it didn’t have the predator grille out front. I keep waiting for them to get rid of that. Huge turnoff for me.

Price range is pretty much what i’d get for the 4runner. Don’t want more payments. Low to mid 30’s.

I’ll consider a Hyundai Santa Fe.

Won’t get anything American or German at this point.