Sliders from White-knuckle Off Road

[brockeverly]

No reason to read the whole thread. These are poser sliders, period. A slider should not have big ass u-bolts sticking down lower than the slider itself. What is going to hit first, slider or mount? Terrible.

 

[Corbet]

No reason to read the whole thread. These are poser sliders, period. A slider should not have big ass u-bolts sticking down lower than the slider itself. What is going to hit first, slider or mount? Terrible.

I strongly disagree. I've NEVER got hung up on my u-bolts or the associated brackets that accompany them. I'd have to look to see if there is even evidence of any contact. The frame rail is in-board enough to prevent most issues of contact. I've hit my rear LCA hangers and bent both OEM arms over the years. Hit my sliders hard enough to dent the lower plate on both sides and hit rocks so hard with the cat protection I though my fillings would fall out. But the unbolts never concern me. It wasn't when I was on 31's with no lift nor now with a 2" and 35's.

I know I'm speaking with regard to my 80 Cruiser but I don't see much difference here. Both vehicle are similar in dimension, wheelbase, and OEM mass.

In the posted pics of the 4th gen the trans crossmember, fuel tank, and rear LCA hanger are all lower than the u-bolts in question. It would take a million in one rock to make them an issue.

Labeling these as poser sliders is a bit harsh IMO. Do others offer more clearance sure. But is is really needed? Probably not for most.

 

[brockeverly]

I strongly disagree. I've NEVER got hung up on my u-bolts or the associated brackets that accompany them. I'd have to look to see if there is even evidence of any contact. The frame rail is in-board enough to prevent most issues of contact. I've hit my rear LCA hangers and bent both OEM arms over the years. Hit my sliders hard enough to dent the lower plate on both sides and hit rocks so hard with the cat protection I though my fillings would fall out. But the unbolts never concern me. It wasn't when I was on 31's with no lift nor now with a 2" and 35's.

I know I'm speaking with regard to my 80 Cruiser but I don't see much difference here. Both vehicle are similar in dimension, wheelbase, and OEM mass.

In the posted pics of the 4th gen the trans crossmember, fuel tank, and rear LCA hanger are all lower than the u-bolts in question. It would take a million in one rock to make them an issue.

Labeling these as poser sliders is a bit harsh IMO. Do others offer more clearance sure. But is is really needed? Probably not for most.

What sliders do you have that attach via u-bolts in this method?

Fact: sliders are meant to SLIDE over an obstacle.
Fact: the bracket with the u-bolt attached will not slide, it will get hung up.

I am not saying that u-bolts are bad, I am saying that a u-bolt and a mount hanging lower than a frame rail and lower than the slider that it is attaching is bad. I personally feel that if I am going to slide over an obstacle, I want to slide, not have a battering ram smash into it.

 

[brockeverly]

And, to be fair, most that have sliders will never use them for what they are for. So, this may never be an issue. I would rather see this company use the same attachment points as BB, SW, and every other slider manufacturer than (IMO) half-ass it with some u-bolts. They are the only ones making sliders for the guys that are wanting to keep the skirts, so I would like to see this work. Not like I am hating just for the sake of hating. Sure, it may be a "million in one rock", but that would be the one I hit. We buy things like sliders to protect ourselves "just in case", kinda defeats the purpose if there is a need for another "just in case" to your "just in case", know what I mean?

 

[Sloan694]

Here is a shot John sent me of his version that involves trimming the rockers. In the pic it looks to me like there will be a couple of other things dragging before you hit the u bolt bracket. My take on bumper, sliders, etc. has been that you want it to protect up to a point but you want it to fail before it takes out the frame. The guys at White Knuckle are as we speak welding up a set for my 4Runner and my FJ60. Admittedly I am not worried about the sliders for the 4Runner because it is my dd/camping fire road runner. I'm going this route because I have no interest in cutting the rocker panels and these guys are the only game in town. If it turns out it's a problem I'll cut off the u bolt brackets and weld up some new mounting plates. I'll post pics when I have the sliders.

 

[Corbet]

As previously mentioned I have Metal Tech sliders on my LC. Metaltech 4x4 FZJ80 Sliders, 95-97 Every company I can think of uses u-bolts for the 80 series LC as we don't have captured nuts in the OEM frame that would support sliders. I've never witnessed a LC get hung up on its slider u-bolts. Or any other vehicle for that matter.

Yes sliders are meant to slide. Driver error on occasion makes them take large hits. Or sometimes you got to bump it to get over it. Often I drop down a ledge where the front wheels are dangling and the truck is resting on the sliders. Never an issue with the u-bolts? Its a solid method of mounting the sliders.

I believe most on this board are just spoiled by the options of captured nuts in a 5th gen frame. Every forum develops its preferences for one reason or another regardless of topic. I find it funny to see the resistance to something new or different than the norm. Just like the Slee step slider thread.

Yes you can make the argument that you want to try to prepare for any possible scenario but by that argument everyone should pull their skirts for more ground clearance, run 40" tires, carry a parts store in the back, etc... And some do. But if you hit the one in a million rock, back up and take a different line. Your frame, unbolt, and hanger will all be just fine.

 

[1engineer]

No reason to read the whole thread. These are poser sliders, period. A slider should not have big ass u-bolts sticking down lower than the slider itself. What is going to hit first, slider or mount? Terrible.

Poser sliders? You sound like many others. All opinion and absolutely no fact to back it up. How many times have you used sliders and standing on them to reach the top does not count.

 

[brockeverly]

Poser sliders? You sound like many others. All opinion and absolutely no fact to back it up. How many times have you used sliders and standing on them to reach the top does not count.

I use mine often, and I backed up with fact in another post. I have smashed into rocks many times dead center where that mount is. For me, they would not work.

 

[brockeverly]

As previously mentioned I have Metal Tech sliders on my LC. Metaltech 4x4 FZJ80 Sliders, 95-97 Every company I can think of uses u-bolts for the 80 series LC as we don't have captured nuts in the OEM frame that would support sliders. I've never witnessed a LC get hung up on its slider u-bolts. Or any other vehicle for that matter.

Yes sliders are meant to slide. Driver error on occasion makes them take large hits. Or sometimes you got to bump it to get over it. Often I drop down a ledge where the front wheels are dangling and the truck is resting on the sliders. Never an issue with the u-bolts? Its a solid method of mounting the sliders.

I believe most on this board are just spoiled by the options of captured nuts in a 5th gen frame. Every forum develops its preferences for one reason or another regardless of topic. I find it funny to see the resistance to something new or different than the norm. Just like the Slee step slider thread.

Yes you can make the argument that you want to try to prepare for any possible scenario but by that argument everyone should pull their skirts for more ground clearance, run 40" tires, carry a parts store in the back, etc... And some do. But if you hit the one in a million rock, back up and take a different line. Your frame, unbolt, and hanger will all be just fine.

To each their own opinion I suppose. Looking under my truck I have some fairly nice hits to the center section of my BB's, right where that mount is. I understand making them attach this way out of necessity, but when another (better) option is available I do not understand why it isn't used. Ill agree to disagree, I have never known anyone to use this style of slider, but I've also not known anyone to win the lottery so that doesn't mean much.

 

[brockeverly]

Looking at photos of the metaltechs for your LC, the bolts are above the slider, so it isn't a fair comparison. As I said earlier, u bolts don't bother me, its the mounts position in the center.

 

[Corbet]

Ill agree to disagree

me too

 

[DannyLlama]

Looking at photos of the metaltechs for your LC, the bolts are above the slider, so it isn't a fair comparison. As I said earlier, u bolts don't bother me, its the mounts position in the center.

aren't you supposed to be spending quality time with your family

 

[DannyLlama]

For whatever it's worth. I reached out to John at white-knuckle regarding concerns with the u-bolts.

His response:

"They are held on with Ubolts. I have been using the Ubolt mounting method when possible for a number of years now on a few different vehicle models with no troubles. They offer great strength and easy mounting with no need for drilling or modifications. Since they are tough enough to hold an axle housing to leaf springs under tremendous pressures then surely they can (and do) hold the weight of the vehicle. They are very tough and handle all the abuse thrown at them."

 

[1engineer]

For whatever it's worth. I reached out to John at white-knuckle regarding concerns with the u-bolts.

His response:

"They are held on with Ubolts. I have been using the Ubolt mounting method when possible for a number of years now on a few different vehicle models with no troubles. They offer great strength and easy mounting with no need for drilling or modifications. Since they are tough enough to hold an axle housing to leaf springs under tremendous pressures then surely they can (and do) hold the weight of the vehicle. They are very tough and handle all the abuse thrown at them."

The people who have concerns about this mounting method know absolutely nothing about the engineering of fastening or joining. They know about what they have heard from someone who knows someone whose 2nd cousin might have broke a u bolt in the '70's. That, and what their eyeball tells them. This thread kinda reminds me of the oil change thread. All "I feel" and no "I know."

If some of you only knew a little about the physics of what actually is happening within your vehicle's moving parts at 75 mph on an interstate you would be deathly afraid and demand the OEM beef up everything from tire sidewalls to ball joints to caliper pins to hose strength.

I'll leave you with these little tidbits:
You know that little bulge on the bottom of your tire as it rests on the ground? Think for a second how much a tire sidewall flexes as it rotates while going 75 mph.

Now think what really happens when you stomp the brakes hard at 75 mph and the stresses on your brake components.

Makes you wonder why some would worry about simple u bolts.

 

[Ducmonsta]

All "I feel" and no "I know."

I "feel" like you "know" everything! How can I subscribe to all of your posts?! Highly entertaining!
JESSE!!!

 

[limamike]

The people who have concerns about this mounting method know absolutely nothing about the engineering of fastening or joining. They know about what they have heard from someone who knows someone whose 2nd cousin might have broke a u bolt in the '70's. That, and what their eyeball tells them. This thread kinda reminds me of the oil change thread. All "I feel" and no "I know."

If some of you only knew a little about the physics of what actually is happening within your vehicle's moving parts at 75 mph on an interstate you would be deathly afraid and demand the OEM beef up everything from tire sidewalls to ball joints to caliper pins to hose strength.

I'll leave you with these little tidbits:
You know that little bulge on the bottom of your tire as it rests on the ground? Think for a second how much a tire sidewall flexes as it rotates while going 75 mph.

Now think what really happens when you stomp the brakes hard at 75 mph and the stresses on your brake components.

Makes you wonder why some would worry about simple u bolts.

I stated my concern a couple of times: I'm not concerned about the integrity or strength of the u-bolt - I'm concerned about using this method over captured bolts in the frame. While unlikely, there is a potential for the sliders to slide down the frame of the truck. If I'm paying more-or-less the same price for a set of sliders, I'd prefer to have multiple static load bearing points that are captured within the frame instead of three load bearing points that have the potential to become dynamic.

I think Brock was expressing a concern about the u-bolt being a potential snag hazard. I don't think I agree with that point of view, but unless I missed it, I don't think anyone was questioning the overall strength of u-bolts. What I will bring-up as another potential issue is interoperability with skid plates since many of the skid plate manufacturers use the bottom of the frame on our trucks to mount some of the plates.

 

[Corbet]

What I will bring-up as another potential issue is interoperability with skid plates since many of the skid plate manufacturers use the bottom of the frame on our trucks to mount some of the plates.

That is a very valid point to keep in mind. Compatibility with other accessories is always challenging.

 

[Sloan694]

That is a very valid point to keep in mind. Compatibility with other accessories is always challenging.

So at best you will have 6 points on the skid plate where you will need to hit with a grinder, torch, plasma cutter, sawzall, drill or die grinder depending on what you have. I am going to guinea pig this for you since I should have my sliders next week and I am going to install the Budbuilt skid plates as soon as I get around to ordering them.

 

[1engineer]

I stated my concern a couple of times: I'm not concerned about the integrity or strength of the u-bolt - I'm concerned about using this method over captured bolts in the frame. While unlikely, there is a potential for the sliders to slide down the frame of the truck. If I'm paying more-or-less the same price for a set of sliders, I'd prefer to have multiple static load bearing points that are captured within the frame instead of three load bearing points that have the potential to become dynamic.

I think Brock was expressing a concern about the u-bolt being a potential snag hazard. I don't think I agree with that point of view, but unless I missed it, I don't think anyone was questioning the overall strength of u-bolts. What I will bring-up as another potential issue is interoperability with skid plates since many of the skid plate manufacturers use the bottom of the frame on our trucks to mount some of the plates.

Your concern is valid. Again, if the material is specc'd correctly and the bolts were set to the proper torque that would not be an issue. All mounting bolts would have to stretch and deform to get it loose enough to "slide" along the frame. Material and torque spec is key though.

 

[Corbet]

So at best you will have 6 points on the skid plate where you will need to hit with a grinder, torch, plasma cutter, sawzall, drill or die grinder depending on what you have.

Your correct. This could be beyond the ability or comfort level of some. So just good to know in advance of purchase.