So how much would you pay for a Diesel 5th Gen 4Runner?
- Thread starter Ryan1975
- Start date
Not a Jeep
FYI my other vehicle is highly modified Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4-door.
Most of the folks who have new engines put in their Wranglers go with either a Hemi or a Chev LS engine and new transmissions. Those cost between $18k - $30k (depending on many factors).
There is at least one company putting diesel engines in the Jeep Wrangler; but, I only know of 2-3 that have that done. And I know one of those are for sale. The cost of the diesel conversion with a used 'take out' diesel engine is between $18k - $22k.
There is a good market for a 'take out' engine & transmission on the Jeep side. So, that is factored into the conversion price.
I can't imagine that there is a market on the 4Runner side for an aftermarket diesel conversion. I also can't imagine that you can do this for any less than the cost of doing it in a Jeep; I'd guess it would be more.
Now, if Toyota were selling 4Runners with diesel engines (or cows were flying) then I'd consider it on a cost break even point.
I'm planning on this 2013 TE 4Runner (6 mo old & 21k miles) lasting for 400-600k miles.
It is an interesting idea.
FYI my other vehicle is highly modified Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4-door.
Most of the folks who have new engines put in their Wranglers go with either a Hemi or a Chev LS engine and new transmissions. Those cost between $18k - $30k (depending on many factors).
There is at least one company putting diesel engines in the Jeep Wrangler; but, I only know of 2-3 that have that done. And I know one of those are for sale. The cost of the diesel conversion with a used 'take out' diesel engine is between $18k - $22k.
There is a good market for a 'take out' engine & transmission on the Jeep side. So, that is factored into the conversion price.
I can't imagine that there is a market on the 4Runner side for an aftermarket diesel conversion. I also can't imagine that you can do this for any less than the cost of doing it in a Jeep; I'd guess it would be more.
Now, if Toyota were selling 4Runners with diesel engines (or cows were flying) then I'd consider it on a cost break even point.
I'm planning on this 2013 TE 4Runner (6 mo old & 21k miles) lasting for 400-600k miles.
It is an interesting idea.
jrandom
New member
This is a perfect case just-because-you-can-doesn't-mean-you-should IMO. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole! Not even with one of Antman's fishing poles 
No offense meant, just too many x factors for something so new:
It's not factory (are they even offering an extended power train warranty?)
Gas : Diesel cost to mileage ratio is sixes.
Gas : Diesel maintenance, gas is cheaper
Diesels take forever to warm up.
Diesel fuel is stinky and oily, doesn't evap or clean up like gas does.
Axle twisting torque is nice for towing, that's a plus
There kind of annoyingly noisy (although I don't mind them in snowcats)
Conversions are typically only worth doing on an aged automobile that is due for engine tranny work anyway. Which leads me too...
The sister-in-law got a '87 VW 4x4 Westfalia, it is a badass little camping machine (although a little top heavy). A very seasoned and most excellent mechanic of whom had done a few dozen Subaru engine/rebuilt tranny conversions, assembled said VW for her, total cost for everything was just shy of 20k (VW itself+sub engine+trans rebuilt+conversion), fast forward a few years, new transmission is on the way...bummer
Unless you are mechanically inclined, like working on cars, have a nice garage/lift, buying something like that is just going to be a lot of work sooner rather than later. I am okay with all that apart from the fact that I haven't got the garage part.
For something that new I would rather spend said money on mods and vacations
No offense meant, just too many x factors for something so new:It's not factory (are they even offering an extended power train warranty?)
Gas : Diesel cost to mileage ratio is sixes.
Gas : Diesel maintenance, gas is cheaper
Diesels take forever to warm up.
Diesel fuel is stinky and oily, doesn't evap or clean up like gas does.
Axle twisting torque is nice for towing, that's a plus
There kind of annoyingly noisy (although I don't mind them in snowcats)
Conversions are typically only worth doing on an aged automobile that is due for engine tranny work anyway. Which leads me too...
The sister-in-law got a '87 VW 4x4 Westfalia, it is a badass little camping machine (although a little top heavy). A very seasoned and most excellent mechanic of whom had done a few dozen Subaru engine/rebuilt tranny conversions, assembled said VW for her, total cost for everything was just shy of 20k (VW itself+sub engine+trans rebuilt+conversion), fast forward a few years, new transmission is on the way...bummer
Unless you are mechanically inclined, like working on cars, have a nice garage/lift, buying something like that is just going to be a lot of work sooner rather than later. I am okay with all that apart from the fact that I haven't got the garage part.
For something that new I would rather spend said money on mods and vacations
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Donkey
New member
One would be unable to get a tag in TN for such a vehicle unless the engine was a factory option, it also may run afoul of idiotic fedgov regulations for emissions systems.
My first vehicle was a diesel, also put a ton of miles on a 12 valve Cummins. Our tractors were nearly all diesel. I do not agree with the 25% higher excise tax at production vs gasoline and as a consumer want more affordable diesel options. A turbocharged four cylinder would be ideal, 600 ft/lbs of torque and complex multistage/multiple turbochargers are not necessary.
Multiple particulate filters, emissions catalyst fluids and other "required" emission control systems will prevent mass adoption of affordable passenger vehicle diesel engines in the USA. These same regulations are hurting diesel technology in other countries. This is a shame.
edit: I would pay the same amount for a diesel engine, not more.
My first vehicle was a diesel, also put a ton of miles on a 12 valve Cummins. Our tractors were nearly all diesel. I do not agree with the 25% higher excise tax at production vs gasoline and as a consumer want more affordable diesel options. A turbocharged four cylinder would be ideal, 600 ft/lbs of torque and complex multistage/multiple turbochargers are not necessary.
Multiple particulate filters, emissions catalyst fluids and other "required" emission control systems will prevent mass adoption of affordable passenger vehicle diesel engines in the USA. These same regulations are hurting diesel technology in other countries. This is a shame.
edit: I would pay the same amount for a diesel engine, not more.
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If we are talking 5th gen then as others have stated $0, I would want a factory option where I knew I had warranty and dealerships that were capable of diagnosing and making repairs if needed.
The only aftermarket diesel option I would ever consider if money was no factor would be a retro cruiser with a duramax/cummins like Icon but those are big bucks. I would be pretty confident that any diesel shop could make repairs to something like that.
The only aftermarket diesel option I would ever consider if money was no factor would be a retro cruiser with a duramax/cummins like Icon but those are big bucks. I would be pretty confident that any diesel shop could make repairs to something like that.
LandCruiser
New member
1) the 4Runner is on its way out
2) Toyota hates diesels in the US
3) Diesel SUVs don't sell well, or at all in the US
4) The only passenger diesels Americans buy regularly are huge pickups
5) The only diesel you may see in a Toyota is in a light duty Tundra, probably in a joint venture with Nissan--no it won't be a large displacement tectonic plate mover
6) New regulations mean diesels don't really get that great mileage compared to gas, then the cost evens out with the higher price of diesel
7) You don't need that much torque, since it won't be mated to an HD chassis or transmission capable of harnessing it for just one thing: towing
8) Obama
2) Toyota hates diesels in the US
3) Diesel SUVs don't sell well, or at all in the US
4) The only passenger diesels Americans buy regularly are huge pickups
5) The only diesel you may see in a Toyota is in a light duty Tundra, probably in a joint venture with Nissan--no it won't be a large displacement tectonic plate mover
6) New regulations mean diesels don't really get that great mileage compared to gas, then the cost evens out with the higher price of diesel
7) You don't need that much torque, since it won't be mated to an HD chassis or transmission capable of harnessing it for just one thing: towing
8) Obama
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philsey
New member
See, there's the thing the diesel-dreamers are not taking into consideration.
The Logistics of ramping up a decent service presence for a low volume product in-itself is a deal breaker. The (service) rollout would have to be staged by region, take years, and (further) restrict sales to trained dealers.
Even if I were wetting myself for a diesel, do I want to be on that (service) bleeding edge? Meh.
LandCruiser
New member
Most smaller GM, RAM, and Ford dealers don't have more than one tech that can do repairs and complex service on their diesels.
philsey
New member
.... which is one helluva lot more than ANY Toyota dealer has, or WILL have, for some time.
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VW sold over 100,000 diesels in the US in 2013.
KidVermicious
New member
Unless something changes with how diesels are regulated, it'll never be anything more than a boutique swap. Consider that different states (and counties within states, even) are going to have different rules about what drivetrains you can swap into what vehicles, and what you have to do during the swap to stay emissions legal - every single truck would have to be built custom for every single customer. Your "make it in advance model and sell it as it sits" model is flawed there, I think, unless you could secure some sort of certificate from EPA and related agencies rubberstamping your builds the same way the big manufacturers do, and that's probably an unclimbable mountain of R&D and red tape. I would venture to estimate that the vast majority of diesel-swapped light trucks are either registered as OHV or old enough to be emissions-exempt, and who wants a 5th gen they can only drive off-road?
Also consider that a small shop will only turn out a limited number of these per year, so your overhead per truck will be high, driving your final cost up, and the more you have to charge the fewer you're going to sell anyway. That's a vicious cycle.
I wish you luck, but I don't see success here. To answer the question in your OP, I wouldn't buy a diesel 5th gen at all, especially not at a premium over an equivalent gas model, and not from a shop that didn't have an established track record of successful swaps and great customer service.
Also consider that a small shop will only turn out a limited number of these per year, so your overhead per truck will be high, driving your final cost up, and the more you have to charge the fewer you're going to sell anyway. That's a vicious cycle.
I wish you luck, but I don't see success here. To answer the question in your OP, I wouldn't buy a diesel 5th gen at all, especially not at a premium over an equivalent gas model, and not from a shop that didn't have an established track record of successful swaps and great customer service.
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NoDak
Senior Member
off topic post of epa cert of dodge 1500 3.0L v6 diesel
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-topic/161251-dodge-1500-3-0l-v6-diesel-get-28-mpg.html#post1611537
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-topic/161251-dodge-1500-3-0l-v6-diesel-get-28-mpg.html#post1611537
TexasAg
New member
I saw a Tundra Test Truck with the Cummins 5.0L V-8 that Nissan is using in the Titan. Don't know if Toyota will sell it since Nissan already announced that they are but only one could hope...Cummins came out with a V-6 & V-8 to try and pitch to Dodge only to lose out to the Fiat. I'm sure if Dodge ever loses the Cummins their Heavy Duty truck sales will drop...
Whiplash Willy
New member
It is because Dodge wanted to continue with its brand identity as being unreliable POS's, and what better way to do that then to throw in a Fiat engine.
The engine is built by VM Motori, which is 1/2 owned by GM. In fact, the engine was developed for use in GM SUVs.
Rubberdown
New member
Meanwhile, Nissan shows a Frontier with a Cummins......
Nissan Frontier Cummins Diesel Runner Teases A Bright Future
Nissan Frontier Cummins Diesel Runner Teases A Bright Future
$4720. That's what I paid for the diesel engine in my 2002 Ford F-250...when diesel was cheaper than gas....when the engine was a smoke belching powerplant with a tolerant fuel injection system and no real emissions to speak of...that does not need any mods to provide me with all the power I need...which should last me the rest of my life.
I think my actual price was $4444, but the point is I would pay a 10% premium if I was pretty sure the engine (or more specifically, the emissions controls) would be reliable.
Flame suit on...I know the days of old are gone and never coming back...
I think my actual price was $4444, but the point is I would pay a 10% premium if I was pretty sure the engine (or more specifically, the emissions controls) would be reliable.
Flame suit on...I know the days of old are gone and never coming back...
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