Solid Front Axle Fascination (SFAF): Help Me Understand

[RichinRidgewood]

Solid front axles. Why would anyone want a solid axle on anything except maybe on an over the road tractor trailer combination?

My experience with them has been I dont ever want one anywhere and that is one of the biggest drawbacks on the 4Runner for me.

Here is a good summary of why 4 Wheel Independent Suspension is so much better....

5 Reasons Why Your Solid-Axle Rig Is Obsolete | DrivingLine

 

[UrbanRunner651]

Unless your IFS has a locker the solid axle is slightly more capable in terms of power. Also slightly less prone to failure. At the same time they can be slightly restrictive due to travel limitations.
Not sure why you mention that being a drawback for the 4runner though, since all models have an independent front setup..

 

[RichinRidgewood]

Unless your IFS has a locker the solid axle is slightly more capable in terms of power. Also slightly less prone to failure. At the same time they can be slightly restrictive due to travel limitations.
Not sure why you mention that being a drawback for the 4runner though, since all models have an independent front setup..

Yes Im aware the front suspension is independent and rear is not on 4Runner. I don't care for the solid rear on the 4Runner.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Sometimes having the two tires connected with a solid axle can be an advantage.

When crawling over rocks where IFS might lift a tire going up a ledge because there is no weight on the front end, a solid axle will use the force pushing up on the tire in contact with the ground and direct it to pushing the other tire down out of the air.

You watch the KOH unlimited class and quite a few are now running IFS suspension, if not also IRS. It can be very strong when done right but sometimes its not worth the effort and a solid axle is pretty easy to swap in comparison to redesigning IFS.

But I have a feeling you're talking road manners and not offroad ability.

 

[RichinRidgewood]

... a solid axle is pretty easy to swap in comparison to redesigning IFS.

I can see this being an advantage on a budget weekend warrior type vehicle.

But I have a feeling you're talking road manners and not offroad ability.

I would include on-road and off-road. Having all 4 corners independent is the best for both. Solid or beam axles for nostalgia or budget rides but certainly not on a newly designed vehicle.

 

[thennen]

A few possible pluses for solid rear axle:

More robust and durable, fewer things to go wrong.
Fewer components overall.
No need for rear alignments - tire wear is always even.

I understand the positives in favor of independent suspension. Being an older guy, I also appreciate a simple design where a complex one won't add much to my life. I can relax knowing that my rear axle will outlive the vehicle, if it comes to that.

 

[spartacus]

I like the solid rear in the 4runner. Solid suspensions aré remarkably stronger then ifs with less components to fail. Ifs vehicles like Ford expedition, Lincoln navigator or a suburu infact other uni body awd vehicles do well on forest service roads and drive like a cars on the street. Something for you to look into.

 

[techno]

Solid axles are still popular because they have been around forever and are very good at what they do.
The vast majority of the motoring public have no idea what a good handling vehicle feels like and they simply don't care about the small handling characteristic differences between the two designs. Plus, there absolutely nothing around to do a perfect comparison. There's no IRS 4Runner to compare against a solid rear axle 4Runner, so you either accept and like the way it drives, or you don't.
[FONT=&quot]The only vehicle I have experience with regarding IFS and SFA is the 100 series Landcruiser in Australia. It was available with both, depending on what trim you wanted. I drove both a 105 series with the 4.2 straight six and solid front axle and a 100 series 4.2 TD Sahara with IFS extensively offroad. They were both awesome, but I destroyed 4 cv axles on the IFS rig. So for durability and dependability in rough conditions, my experience as shown the solid axle was far superior. Has independent suspension improved since then? Maybe, but it’s going to take years to prove that, and in the meantime we’re going to continue seeing cv axles explode far more often than solid axles breaking.[/FONT]

 

[RichinRidgewood]

I like the solid rear in the 4runner. Solid suspensions aré remarkably stronger then ifs with less components to fail. Ifs vehicles like Ford expedition, Lincoln navigator or a suburu infact other uni body awd vehicles do well on forest service roads and drive like a cars on the street. Something for you to look into.

I can't even imagine buying a Ford, GM, Chrysler again. Not a fan of belt drives like the Subarus have or the "quality" level of their parts that I've seen.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Tell a consumer they need to do rear alignments, replace rear axle shafts, and up the cost of the vehicle by a couple thousand; they'll be buying a different brand.

I would imagine leaf springs are a cheap and easy way to spring and locate the axle.

That and you don't need a subframe to hold the suspension arms. And ground clearance is inherently there.

 

[Reinout]

I really wanted to chime in on this and really can't help myself: I can't however speak to what is "better" or "worse".

It really comes down to the end user and what/why they choose a specific suspension setup and I'm not going to go into IFS, Solid axle, or going into horst links (i'm mixing in MTB terms now), beam axles etc.

They all have their place and purposes and it is 100% opinion and an article titled "5 Reasons why your solid-axle rig is obsolete" is completely BOGUS. The article should have been titled "5 reasons why your solid-axle rig MAY BE obsolete (for your purposes)".

 

[RichinRidgewood]

Tell a consumer they need to do rear alignments, replace rear axle shafts, and up the cost of the vehicle by a couple thousand; they'll be buying a different brand.

I would imagine leaf springs are a cheap and easy way to spring and locate the axle.

That and you don't need a subframe to hold the suspension arms. And ground clearance is inherently there.

I can't even remember how many leaf springs I had to replace on my Chevrolets and Pontiacs. They didn't last very long. It was often.

It seemed like I needed front end suspension parts and a front end alignment every year and that was with 60-70 series tires too.

I have done maybe 2 - four wheel alignments on my 14 year old 180k MB C-class (IFS/IRS). I haven't had to replace any drive shafts (knock wood). I did have a worn front link about 100k miles ago

Point being if the IFS/IRS is designed right you wont need alignments and parts any more than with a solid.

 

[swampdodo]

So, why don't you jump over to the Jeep forums and post the same question?

 

[UrbanRunner651]

I don't care for the solid rear on the 4Runner.

Solid rear enables more power while saving gas mileage with the ability to cycle between AWD/4W & 2WD. If it were an independent rear it would be AWD full time like the V8s which is not necessary for a lot of people.
Sounds like you need to ditch the 4runner and get a RAV4..

 

[thennen]

I don’t have time to research it all, but I think the vast majority of B-O-F 4WD vehicles out there utilize a solid rear axle. I believe the reason for that is durability rather than cost. Even the expensive MB G Class uses solid rear. I think the Ford Expedition/Navigator vehicles are IRS, but I’ve never seen one set up for off-roading.

So to me, the abundance of solid axles in the making of trucks, plus the fact that serious off-roaders (I’m not one) overwhelmingly prefer solid axles on the trail, is really all the research I need to do. Again, this is because priority one for me is durability.

 

[RichinRidgewood]

Jeep Forums ?

So, why don't you jump over to the Jeep forums and post the same question?

Thanks for the suggestion. I've never been to any of them.
I can't even imagine the level of ridiculousness possible in those places...

Possible thread titles ....

"Have You Seen TSB 1,853,559 C ?"

"Poll: How many times has your girlfriend fallen out of your Jeep when the doors were off this summer ? "

"Should I Lemon Law My Jeep?"

"My Door Hinges are Rusty Should I Lemon Law My Jeep"

"Brah Check Out My New Bimini Top Brah"

"I Lost Control The First Time I Drove on the Highway After My 12" Lift and My Dog Died"

 

[-E5J-]

I can't even remember how many leaf springs I had to replace on my Chevrolets and Pontiacs. They didn't last very long. It was often.

It seemed like I needed front end suspension parts and a front end alignment every year and that was with 60-70 series tires too.

I have done maybe 2 - four wheel alignments on my 14 year old 180k MB C-class (IFS/IRS). I haven't had to replace any drive shafts (knock wood). I did have a worn front link about 100k miles ago

Point being if the IFS/IRS is designed right you wont need alignments and parts any more than with a solid.

Just curious... Do you off-road with your 14 year old, 180k MB C-Class?

If not, perhaps that's why that particular set up has required less attention.

Life is short. If you don't like the 4Runner, drive something else. :shrug:

 

[RichinRidgewood]

Just curious... Do you off-road with your 14 year old, 180k MB C-Class?

If not, perhaps that's why that particular set up has required less attention.

Life is short. If you don't like the 4Runner, drive something else. :shrug:

This is about "Solid Front Axle Fascination" or SFAF. It isn't about me or my car or my choice to buy or not buy a 4Runner.

 

[swampdodo]

Yeah, that's what your title states, but then you go off on the solid rear axle as well...the link you listed and stating "I don't care for the solid rear on the 4Runner."...you blew it up yourself...

 

[RichinRidgewood]

Yeah, that's what your title states, but then you go off on the solid rear axle as well...the link you listed and stating "I don't care for the solid rear on the 4Runner."...you blew it up yourself...

Oh well. No ones perfect.

At lease its a coil and link solid rear and primary RWD. Rear wheel drive is one of the things that got me interested in the 4Runner. Most of the other 4WDs are FWD with a RWD add-on.

But the point is for years I've herd this "Solid front axle is (insert description of best-ness here)" and to me it appears religious argument.