Soundproofing cargo area ?

[tigger]

Not to thread jack, but what does this accomplish?

I ask becuase I am very interested in removing the road noise from my 4runner and know it will only get worse when I change up the tire to some a/t or m/t tires. I normally just turn up the radio and thats that, but.....

How much of the t4r shoudl be done? what is the most cost efficient way to do this? And does this really work or is this more a sound system type thing?

Mike

Your results will vary based on the level you are willing to add. There are 3 parts to sound reduction.
CLD (constrained layer dampener) the base layer which reduces vibrations in the metal. Will only go so far to reduce actual noise unless you put it on really heavy. Most expensive layer and one of the heaviest. Normal coverage is 30%)
CCF (Closed cell foam) This is a decoupler. It places an isolation layer between the MVL and the CLD. (provides sound reduction at certain frequencies.
Other options are Jute or radiant barrier.
MLV (Mass Loaded Vinyl) As the name states, it is just a heavy sheet of vinyl. Weight should be between 3/4 and 1lb per square foot. This is where a majority of the sound reduction occurs.

Keep in mind that sound enters the vehicle at multiple points. Any place that sound can enter should be covered. Unfortunately this is financially prohibitive. The noisiest area of the vehicle is the windows. Unless you are willing to spend 10 of thousands of dollars for acoustically dampened glass, you can't fix that part.

You can attack the sound issue in several ways. You can go area by area, and see which has the biggest effect. Start with the doors. They are a major sound entry area. Then the wheel wells, Then the tail gate, then the floor then the firewall, then the sides, then the roof panel.

There are sprays you can use on the outside as well as the inside in addition to the products above.

This can be a huge project, time consuming and expensive depending on how far in you are willing to go. It also adds a lot of weight to your vehicle.

But to me, it was well worth it.

 

[LockeLamora]

So far I have
approx 34 ft of CLD tiles- $99 dollars (Amazon.com : Stinger RKX36B Roadkill Expert Series Sound Damping Material Bulk Pack : Automotive Soundproofing Kits : Automotive)

8 yards of Raamat Ensolite- about $180 dollars (Ensolite IUO Peel and Stick --- 1 yard (13.875 sq ft) - RAAMaudio Inc.)

80 sqft of MLV- $200 for 100sqft http://www.amazon.com/Loaded-Vinyl-..._2?ie=UTF8&qid=1458044234&sr=8-2&keywords=mlv)

For time me and the Ms. have spent on this, without delivery delays, it's probably 2 full days, maybe a little more once everything is done. So doing it yourself is expensive, depending on your product choice, you could do it for $3-600 by yourself. Now if you pay a shop, add in a couple days of labor and you are probably close to 1500-2k I would think. If you are hesitant because of knowledge and whatnot, don't be, just read this forum and ask all the smart people like [MENTION=120209]tigger[/MENTION] for help, it has gotten me through it and I've never done anything like this.

I will have extra mlv, but besides that I pretty much used every bit, after doing the driver seat I won't have any left over material, could probably use 9 yards of the ccf if you go crazy.

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Not much more to add to what Tigger and Locke have said already, but I will say this...

If you like your BMW quietness, you will love your 4runner after doing this to it! You can effectively reduce cabin noise by a LOT! IIRC, I found these numbers from doing sound reduction in my cabin:

Geeky-tech stuff:
before reduction, 55mph, no fan/radio/open windows: 79db
after reduction, 55mph, same road: 57db

A-weighted micronta sound meter placed on armrest with foam underneath.

Non geeky-tech stuff:

Its quiet in this here vee-hickle!

Start with the closest panels to you, such as front doors, this can be a fun weekend project if you like spending time in the garage with your 4runner! All the products you need are available on Amazon.com, and any one of us can help you pick out the proper items for you, there's already a list of them just above my post!

If the doors aren't enough reduction for you/your wife, then do the next set of doors and the tailgate. By this time, you'll be well-versed in ripping apart the vehicle and you'll have no problem doing the rear quarter panels and flooring. Once you get all this done, this is where you'll find 70 or 80% of your noise has been reduced. Finishing up the ceiling is up to you, I opted not to do mine and am quite happy with the noise reduction so far. I can literally have a conversation with my wife on the highway at 70-80mph, barely over a whisper!

 

[Neauxla]

Do you use all 3 products kn your doors? Do you have any photos of your door projects? That sounds much more doable than ripping up carpet

 

[tigger]

Do you use all 3 products kn your doors? Do you have any photos of your door projects? That sounds much more doable than ripping up carpet

I did. Check my build thread in my signature. (the images show radiant barrier on my doors, but I had to change it out for CCF as the Radiant Barrier was too thick)

 

[DesertCanyons]

Insanely difficult

This looks like an insane amount of work. I'm surprised to hear @LockeLemora say he did this in two full days, whether he spread that out over several days or not. :wink2:

It's too much work for me to even think about it. But hey, I'm practically deaf anyway. My ears ring all the time (tinnitus). That's why I won't be upgrading the stereo either. Here's an image of Ray Charles for you to ponder. I'm nearly as deaf as Ray was blind. :reddance:

What'd you say? :lol:

 

[LockeLamora]

Do you use all 3 products kn your doors? Do you have any photos of your door projects? That sounds much more doable than ripping up carpet

It's only taken two days or so cause my fiance has a lot of patience and did all the little tricky areas! I would have freaked out and given up after the first layer without her!
I am going to do the doors Thursday, need some more MLV for them. They already have some tiles on them from when I got new speakers out in, but they are now the loudest part of the car, besides the driver seat I haven't done yet. I will put up some pictures from it when I am done. Depending on how much room there is I will use the ccf and MLV, or just the MLV.

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Don't think of it as work, think of it as doing something fun with your 4 runner!

If everyone thought that it was just way too much work to mod their rigs, this forum would be nothing more than a place to post issues and recalls!!!

 

[Neauxla]

I want to just do the doors for right now, all 4 and the rear hatch. What do I need? What kind of tape are yall using? Is that lil rubber roller necessary?

 

[LockeLamora]

I want to just do the doors for right now, all 4 and the rear hatch. What do I need? What kind of tape are yall using? Is that lil rubber roller necessary?

Been messing with the doors for two days. First problem is my stereo installer didn't put the tiles on the outer part of the door, he just did the inside. So this adds a bunch of bulk that could have been taken up by ccf and mlv...

second issue is that after a really long day and I tried to put the rear door on the front....comes surprisingly close to fitting actually lol Anywho that took some wind out of the sails and stalled us. Will attack them later.

My advice, put some resonance tiles down on the outside inner layer (under the plastic seal) then seal it with something, and then put some mlv down. Instead of glue some commercial grade velcro from amazon or other places can hold the mlv without worrying about fumes or it melting...

My advice is also to be taken with a grain of salt because I tried to put the rear door on the front for a good 20 minutes...:humble::humble:
EDIT: Didn't answer your questions
As to the roller, I liked it, but on the doors where areas are tighter, its not as big of a deal. Try to layer, rather than tape. BUT when we did tape (we did a decent amount of taping) I had some http://smile.amazon.com/Dynamat-131...8&qid=1458257975&sr=8-1&keywords=dynamat+tape
might could be a rip off. [MENTION=137466]Twigrunner[/MENTION] really liked it. It's like a metal duct tape..a little less sticky, but same idea.

 

[Twigrunner]

EDIT: Didn't answer your questions
As to the roller, I liked it, but on the doors where areas are tighter, its not as big of a deal. Try to layer, rather than tape. BUT when we did tape (we did a decent amount of taping) I had some http://smile.amazon.com/Dynamat-131...8&qid=1458257975&sr=8-1&keywords=dynamat+tape
might could be a rip off. [MENTION=137466]Twigrunner[/MENTION] really liked it. It's like a metal duct tape..a little less sticky, but same idea.

The stuff is worth it. The tape was less sticky on ur hands but very sticky when applied. Much more effective than duct tape.

 

[tigger]

I want to just do the doors for right now, all 4 and the rear hatch. What do I need? What kind of tape are yall using? Is that lil rubber roller necessary?

You need to clean the door skin very well.
Pick your CLD (I used this as it is highly rated for it's dampening abilities.. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009KXFAJE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
There are smaller packs. That did the whole vehicle)

If you are going further, you need some closed cell foam. The ensolite mentioned works well.

Then you need Mass loaded vinyl. There are different versions. Mine was in sheet form. I used Gorilla tape to hold it in place.

SecondSkin has a product called luxury liner. I replaces both the CCF and MLV. Works really well but is really expensive.

 

[Neauxla]

You need to clean the door skin very well.

What's this?

Also, I thought you just did the outer wall of the door? You do both outer and inner? Any pics of both?

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Brian's just saying to clean the door really well, as the dust and dirt that's built up inside the doors will keep anything from sticking to it well, especially if your runner is a couple of years old like ours were when we did our sound proofing. I used isopropyl alcohol in a spray bottle and some blue paper towels, but I have that stuff on-hand for work. You can just use glass cleaner or some other cleaning stuff that will take off dirt and oils.

I don't have pics of my doors, but I installed a bunch on the inside of the door's outer skin (the outside panel), as well as the inner skin (the inner panel that has your door handle and door panel attached to it). No need to do both sides of the inner skin, and it would look pretty funny doing the outside of the outer skin!

For me, the easiest way to tell if you have enough material on the door, is to take the back end of a screwdriver and tap on the metal parts of the inner door, it should sound flat with no metal ringing or clanging sound. Same goes for the outer skin, but just tap it with your fingernails outside, you'll definitely hear the difference when you have enough on there, it'll sound like a thud instead of a hollow metal door.

Then you can start putting on your ccf/mlv. As you can tell by reading this thread, the trick is to get enough mounted to the door without it inhibiting the panel from going back on! Its not hard, but will take some time and a good knife and scissors to trim back some of the material where its getting in the way of re-attaching stuff.

 

[tigger]

What's this?

Also, I thought you just did the outer wall of the door? You do both outer and inner? Any pics of both?

At Hawaiian said, you need to clean the door where you are sticking the CLD. It has to endure extreme heat and cold and not all types stick equally. The better you can clean it, the better the results.

Outer door skin with CLD applied.

Inner door with Radiant barrier. I had to change this out for CCF as it was too thick. I didn't take a picture of the replacement layer.
Make sure you replace the vapor barrier with something before adding this layer. (the plastic you removed to get to the inside)

Inner door with MLV

 

[Neauxla]

Did you apply all 3 layers on both inner and outer or just the CLD on the outer and other 2 on inner?

 

[LockeLamora]

Okay, seeing how [MENTION=120209]tigger[/MENTION]'s came out, I am convinced I need to rip out the tiles the shop put in and redo the doors. I am going to do it 1 by 1 as to not get frustrated, but I want it done right after putting in a lot of work doing the rest of the car right.

 

[tigger]

Did you apply all 3 layers on both inner and outer or just the CLD on the outer and other 2 on inner?

CLD in the outer skin, CCF and MLV on the inner skin. I used vinyl to cover where the vapor barrier was then added a piece of CLD over that (just in case I have to get back inside. CLD is almost impossible to remove) The most important layer for coverage is the MLV. You want as close to a seamless 100% coverage as possible. If there are seams, they need to be taped or covered. Some will take a strip of MLV and glue it over the seams.

Okay, seeing how [MENTION=120209]tigger[/MENTION]'s came out, I am convinced I need to rip out the tiles the shop put in and redo the doors. I am going to do it 1 by 1 as to not get frustrated, but I want it done right after putting in a lot of work doing the rest of the car right.

Whoa Whoa Whoa, No need to do that. First of all, if they are decent tiles, they will be almost impossible to remove. Second, WHY? they are just to keep the panel from vibrating. If your outer skin has a nice thud to it, it's doing it's job. If it's a visual thing, just add to what is in there and make it pretty (although you are the only person who will ever see it)

Save yourself the headache and frustration, leave it be or add to it.

 

[LockeLamora]

Whoa Whoa Whoa, No need to do that. First of all, if they are decent tiles, they will be almost impossible to remove. Second, WHY? they are just to keep the panel from vibrating. If your outer skin has a nice thud to it, it's doing it's job. If it's a visual thing, just add to what is in there and make it pretty (although you are the only person who will ever see it)

Save yourself the headache and frustration, leave it be or add to it.

They didn't do any on the outer panel, just the inner part, and they put a ton so its real hard if not almost impossible to fit some mlv over and get the panels back on. I will give that another go before i take everything off, or attempt it, but the cargo door we did and around the wheel wells sound alot better (more dense) when you knock them then the doors.

 

[trex9K]

The best soundproof guy in the country is here... https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

Is there anyone on the West Coast that specializes in sound proofing?