Speechless

[ClockWork]

I don't agree with that but I will say that Toyota, for the most part, makes better vehicles.

In my opinion GM has the muscle car line cinched up rather tight between the Z06, ZR1 and the V series. Plus I have always wanted a Cadillac!

That doesn't mean their quality or good vehicles, IMO.

 

[1engineer]

I don't have a 5th gen yet but I assure you that I will post pics as soon as I pick one up. How about I substitute with pics of a 500+ RWHP Trailblazer SS?

Why? No if you post pics of a 500 hp Nissan GTR AWD sitting in your driveway...or a Lexus GTA 500 hp sitting beside it...

 

[ClockWork]

Why? No if you post pics of a 500 hp Nissan GTR AWD sitting in your driveway...or a Lexus GTA 500 hp sitting beside it...

Lexus LFA?

 

[1engineer]

Lexus LFA?

Typing into phone and computer at same time different subjects does.not.work.ever. Sorry. Better check message I typed on phone!

 

[ClockWork]

Typing into phone and computer at same time different subjects does.not.work.ever. Sorry. Better check message I typed on phone!

No worries, I've had far worse attempts at auto correct on my phone.

 

[Antman]

No worries, I've had far worse attempts at auto correct on my phone.

:lmao: That's why 75% of my posts are edited. One time my phone reply autocorrected to "Spoon me". Nice.

 

[GoBlueBradW]

That doesn't mean their quality or good vehicles, IMO.

I don't want to get in a debate here but what other vehicle, in their price range can compare? Have you been in a ZR1, Z06 or a V Series Cadillac? That is the pride and joy of GM and, I know that this is hard to believe, they are built very well.

 

[gptoy96]

Great thread OP, I always love hearing someone "seeing the light" for the first time.

Enjoy your new ride!

 

[KCcarguy]

I don't want to get in a debate here but what other vehicle, in their price range can compare? Have you been in a ZR1, Z06 or a V Series Cadillac? That is the pride and joy of GM and, I know that this is hard to believe, they are built very well.

l

IMO, the LS-x series are the best engines in the world. They're light, compact, rugged, simple, powerful, efficient, and easy to modify......now if GM could just fix the rest of their problems.

 

[Pensacola33]

This really is my first post that has any "true" content to it.

My wife and I have been looking at getting a "second: vehicle for quite sometime now. Currently, we have a 2011 Outback which my wife and I drive and a 2007 Trailblazer SS which is my toy with low miles and a bunch of money tied-up into it. My wife's whole family are Toyota nuts and I grew up in a GM family mainly because my Dad is employed by them. With that said, I have always owned Chevrolet's and other GM vehicles and never in a million years thought that I would own a Toyota. I am also the type that does a TON of research before buying anything because I was raised to buy it once! I have looked at everything in the Big Three line-up that is an SUV and in the same comparison class as the 4Runner but skipped right over the Runner.

Then I started speaking to my two brother in laws and my father in law who all own 02-06 runners each with 160,000 miles or more. They have not put a dime into either one of their vehicles other than routine maintenance and it still looks brand new. Additionally, I ran a KBB, NADA and a Black Book on each vehicle and found out that they're still worth quite a bit of money especially when considering the amount of miles on them. I then started to think about all the GM vehicles I have owned and how much money I had to put into them plus I have always unloaded the vehicle at 100,000 miles or less due to squeaks, rattles or was just bored of the vehicle.

I guess what I am trying to say is that a long time GM guy is going to be buying a new Trail Edition 4Runner to park next to our Outback and my Trailblazer SS. The process has been a long road but I asked myself, "what other vehicle can you purchase that is around the $40K mark, drive the hell out of it, put little to no money into it and still sell it private party for a reasonable amount of money?" From my extensive background (automobile sales for 10+ years) in the automobile business as well as research, this IS the best buy in it's price range.

Just thought that I would try to express my newly born, borderline obsessiveness with these vehicles. My wife is literally shaking in her boots because I already have put together a lengthy spreadsheet of several items that will be installed immediately after buying my new Trail Edition. With ALL of that said, I want to say thank you to the gods for letting me run into this site, however, my wife is currently trying to find a way to permanently block it from every computer in our house!

You're going to go head over heels, like I did. -From a former 04 Maxima SE owner.

 

[Catchlight]

My Dad retired from GM. I worked on the assembly line during the summer while in college. The stuff they tell you about Friday night vehicles is true! First Friday night I worked, I was shocked by how many people were drunk. You could see the lemons coming down the line while being built. Each Astro van had a build sheet with codes for every work station. You would mark the sheet if you had a problem- damaged part, incomplete job, scratched paint, etc. Most jobs would have one or two marks on the sheet. The lemons looked like a coloring book. Between lines, repairmen would have a little time to try to fix the problems. The line did not stop. Most of the workers really did care that they did a good job, but the system was working against them...It was sad.

I was raised as part of an "American car only" family. Unfortunately, I have lived through my fair share of GM junk, lured in by employee pricing. This is my first Toyota, but I have owned Fords, Chevy's, GMC's, VW's, Buicks, Nissans, and a Jeep TJ.

I am confused as to why it took me so long, as a self proclaimed "gearhead", to see the light. This vehicle has opened my eyes! First one I've ever owned that can be taken apart over and over with no rattles. I love it!

One of the reasons I chose a 4Runner in 1998 and 2011 is that they are all made in Japan. Has anyone seen stats on how the reliability of Japanese-made Toyotas like the 'Runner and the Prius stacks up against that of the American and Canadian-assembled models like the Camry, Highlander, and others?

If there is a difference, I'm not knocking the American and Canadian workers, who are fully capable of world-class quality. It would be the environment, systems, and expectations set by management that would determine whether they were able to do their best work and produce an equal product here.

 

[ClockWork]

One of the reasons I chose a 4Runner in 1998 and 2011 is that they are all made in Japan. Has anyone seen stats on how the reliability of Japanese-made Toyotas like the 'Runner and the Prius stacks up against that of the American and Canadian-assembled models like the Camry, Highlander, and others?

The Prius is made in the US now. Only the FJ, 4R, and Land Cruiser are still made entirely in Japan.

 

[20034RunnerV84x2]

The Prius is made in the US now. Only the FJ, 4R, and Land Cruiser are still made entirely in Japan.

Since when?!

 

[homeyclaus]

10. Continue to drive your Toyota truck until:
a) Your newborn child turns 16 and you pass it down to him.
b) You get bored and sell it (refer new owner to step 2).

In my case my wife decided she likes it for two reasons: 1) I don't freak out if she bottoms it out/dings the skid plate, and 2) it's not the ticket magnet our Maxima is.

So make that a), and the rest b and c respectively.

One of the reasons I chose a 4Runner in 1998 and 2011 is that they are all made in Japan. Has anyone seen stats on how the reliability of Japanese-made Toyotas like the 'Runner and the Prius stacks up against that of the American and Canadian-assembled models like the Camry, Highlander, and others?

If there is a difference, I'm not knocking the American and Canadian workers, who are fully capable of world-class quality. It would be the environment, systems, and expectations set by management that would determine whether they were able to do their best work and produce an equal product here.

My '04 TMMC Matrix did as well as any Toyota when subjected repeatedly to enough stress to chafe the bottom 1/4" of the a-frame pillars against the dash. 1engineer would probably say that it was used "at or beyond the design limits."

 

[Reata]

:lmao: That's why 75% of my posts are edited. One time my phone reply autocorrected to "Spoon me". Nice.

You edited that? Heck, Jeff I thought you were really interested.....So Gay

 

[Bearshrimp]

If there is a difference, I'm not knocking the American and Canadian workers, who are fully capable of world-class quality. It would be the environment, systems, and expectations set by management that would determine whether they were able to do their best work and produce an equal product here.

It’s not the workers that determine the quality of manufacture. The 4Runners are “better built” because:

Engineering
The engineering behind them is better tested and generally well thought out.

Production
The Tahara plant has a relatively slow moving production line and is almost completely automated. That’s why most of the holes for fittings on the 4Runner are round rather than oval, with an all robot crew you can have much tighter tolerances.

QC
Toyota quality control is meticulous

Subcontractors
Toyota uses subassemblies produced by Toyota and Toyota subs rather than independent contractors so it can hold the individual sub assemblies to the same QC standards as its vehicles. This one is interesting from a manufacturing management POV. It’s the main reason (IMHO) that Boeing QC took such a hard hit on the 787 after the acquisition of McDonnell Douglas.

It all comes down to money really, Toyota is just willing to put more money into product development and production than US manufacturers. It lowers the net profit per vehicle produced but Toyota sees the reduction in cost as an investment in the Future of the company, ensuring that it maintains its reputation of quality.

For a lot of reasons (I won’t go into here), the US manufactures are seeking the highest return possible on each vehicle sold. You can either do that by raising prices (which is unacceptable) or lowering the costs associated with production and product development.

So, Toyota just puts a whole lot more time and money into product development than the US manufactures do because US management didn’t see the point in investing in product development.

Maybe following the bankruptcies of GM and Chrysler they will start.

On the buy America thing, the cars may be built here, but all the profit from manufacture flows back to where the parent company is listed (i.e. the stock exchange). Until Toyota and BMW are listed on the NASDAQ, most of the dollars spent on US built cars will end up in Japan or Germany.

 

[KCcarguy]

GM Could Be Free of Taxes for Years - WSJ.com

 

[jsun_2k]

It’s not the workers that determine the quality of manufacture. The 4Runners are “better built” because:

Engineering
The engineering behind them is better tested and generally well thought out.

Production
The Tahara plant has a relatively slow moving production line and is almost completely automated. That’s why most of the holes for fittings on the 4Runner are round rather than oval, with an all robot crew you can have much tighter tolerances.

QC
Toyota quality control is meticulous

Subcontractors
Toyota uses subassemblies produced by Toyota and Toyota subs rather than independent contractors so it can hold the individual sub assemblies to the same QC standards as its vehicles. This one is interesting from a manufacturing management POV. It’s the main reason (IMHO) that Boeing QC took such a hard hit on the 787 after the acquisition of McDonnell Douglas.

It all comes down to money really, Toyota is just willing to put more money into product development and production than US manufacturers. It lowers the net profit per vehicle produced but Toyota sees the reduction in cost as an investment in the Future of the company, ensuring that it maintains its reputation of quality.

For a lot of reasons (I won’t go into here), the US manufactures are seeking the highest return possible on each vehicle sold. You can either do that by raising prices (which is unacceptable) or lowering the costs associated with production and product development.

So, Toyota just puts a whole lot more time and money into product development than the US manufactures do because US management didn’t see the point in investing in product development.

Maybe following the bankruptcies of GM and Chrysler they will start.

On the buy America thing, the cars may be built here, but all the profit from manufacture flows back to where the parent company is listed (i.e. the stock exchange). Until Toyota and BMW are listed on the NASDAQ, most of the dollars spent on US built cars will end up in Japan or Germany.

US management gets much much higher pay and bonus

 

[scanny]

For a lot of reasons (I won’t go into here), the US manufactures are seeking the highest return possible on each vehicle sold. You can either do that by raising prices (which is unacceptable) or lowering the costs associated with production and product development.

So, Toyota just puts a whole lot more time and money into product development than the US manufactures do because US management didn’t see the point in investing in product development.

Maybe following the bankruptcies of GM and Chrysler they will start.

.

I think it's been about 100 years since Henry Ford said that "
Wealth, like happiness, is never attained when sought after directly. It comes as a by-product of providing a useful service."

When companies are taken over by those who look only for money, those companies are on the way down.

 

[KCcarguy]

I saw an interesting story on the news years ago when Toyota became the #1 manufacturer in the world. They were examining differences between GM and Toyota. They said many Toyota execs have engineering backgrounds whereas GM execs are business-guys. This dictates their focus and company philosophy...Toyota is product-driven and GM is profit-driven.