SR5 or Limited? 4WD Differences on Sand.

[T4RT]

Hello everyone! First time poster here and as mentioned in my title, I am in the market for a Used T4R but when it comes down to deciding which to purchase (SR5 or Limited) I seem to run into a brick wall. Let me try to explain why.

The reason for the purchase is to replace my 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 that finally got to the point it wasn't worth repairing. Only had the vehicle for 3 years and it did well until it started nickle dimming me to death. When the last repair was half the price I paid for it, it was time to move on.

The 4Runner's primary duty will be serving as the family car mostly for the wife and two little ones during the week but it's secondary duty's will be weekend trips to the Outer Banks with the family. Off road situations will be all sandy conditions which will vary with weather conditions.

I am having troubles determining which 4WD system is better in the 5th Gens. I have had experience with my father's 2002 T4R SR5 before and I was very impressed. For sandy conditions you could lock the center differential and have all 4 wheels pull at the same time and never really have a concern about getting stuck on the beach. With my Jeep, shifting into 4Low with the Quarda Drive was just about the same thing as locking the center differential in the 2002 4Runner. When it comes to the 5th Gen 4Runner, it seems I can have a locked drive line every time I switch into 4WD. With the 5th Gen Limited I can have Full Time 4WD with and Open differential and switch to a locked diff if required.

When I went to test drive the 5th Gen's, I went to a Toyota dealership thinking I would get the full story on the SR5 and its 4WD system. When I asked the dealer if SR5 4WD could be driven on pavement, they said yes. I looked in the owners manual and it said it was not for use on dry pavement.
I read the forums looking for users who may talk about their usage and I see people that put an SR5 in 4HL in the winter and keep it there going between limited slip surfaces to dry conditions and report no problems.

Now I am turning to everyone here looking for personal experience.

The reason I ask is if I purchase an SR5 I will need to engage the 4WD while on pavement before entering a beach ramp to prevent getting stuck. And when exiting the beach, I will go from sand to pavement in some cases which has me worried about binding or drive line damage. Am I being overly cautious here or do I have a real concern? I know if I purchased a 5th Gen Limited I would be in 4WD all the time and could just drive out on the beach and then make my determination if I needed to go 4HLock or stay 4HOpen. I almost feel like the SR5 forces me to be in 2WD until I know I need the 4WD and then I better be sure I am on a surface where I can engage the system.

The wife likes the idea of full time all wheel drive when we head up north in the winter to see family but I don't know if the extra money is worth it in the long run. Besides, the other elephant in the room if I were to purchase a limited is the 20 inch rims.They might do okay on sand, but i would feel better running a 17 inch rim and a tire with some sidewall so I can air down if needed on days on the beach where the sand is almost a powder. I don't think the 20 inch tires would allow me to air down to 18PSI and run on sand. But I could be wrong.

So if you guys could provide your feed back and options, I would greatly appreciate it. I am looking to make a purchase within the next month.

Once again, thanks for reading and your comments are much appreciated.

Thanks,

T4RT

 

[Canazes9]

Hello everyone! First time poster here and as mentioned in my title, I am in the market for a Used T4R but when it comes down to deciding which to purchase (SR5 or Limited) I seem to run into a brick wall. Let me try to explain why.

The reason for the purchase is to replace my 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 that finally got to the point it wasn't worth repairing. Only had the vehicle for 3 years and it did well until it started nickle dimming me to death. When the last repair was half the price I paid for it, it was time to move on.

The 4Runner's primary duty will be serving as the family car mostly for the wife and two little ones during the week but it's secondary duty's will be weekend trips to the Outer Banks with the family. Off road situations will be all sandy conditions which will vary with weather conditions.

I am having troubles determining which 4WD system is better in the 5th Gens. I have had experience with my father's 2002 T4R SR5 before and I was very impressed. For sandy conditions you could lock the center differential and have all 4 wheels pull at the same time and never really have a concern about getting stuck on the beach. With my Jeep, shifting into 4Low with the Quarda Drive was just about the same thing as locking the center differential in the 2002 4Runner. When it comes to the 5th Gen 4Runner, it seems I can have a locked drive line every time I switch into 4WD. With the 5th Gen Limited I can have Full Time 4WD with and Open differential and switch to a locked diff if required.

When I went to test drive the 5th Gen's, I went to a Toyota dealership thinking I would get the full story on the SR5 and its 4WD system. When I asked the dealer if SR5 4WD could be driven on pavement, they said yes. I looked in the owners manual and it said it was not for use on dry pavement.
I read the forums looking for users who may talk about their usage and I see people that put an SR5 in 4HL in the winter and keep it there going between limited slip surfaces to dry conditions and report no problems.

Now I am turning to everyone here looking for personal experience.

The reason I ask is if I purchase an SR5 I will need to engage the 4WD while on pavement before entering a beach ramp to prevent getting stuck. And when exiting the beach, I will go from sand to pavement in some cases which has me worried about binding or drive line damage. Am I being overly cautious here or do I have a real concern? I know if I purchased a 5th Gen Limited I would be in 4WD all the time and could just drive out on the beach and then make my determination if I needed to go 4HLock or stay 4HOpen. I almost feel like the SR5 forces me to be in 2WD until I know I need the 4WD and then I better be sure I am on a surface where I can engage the system.

The wife likes the idea of full time all wheel drive when we head up north in the winter to see family but I don't know if the extra money is worth it in the long run. Besides, the other elephant in the room if I were to purchase a limited is the 20 inch rims.They might do okay on sand, but i would feel better running a 17 inch rim and a tire with some sidewall so I can air down if needed on days on the beach where the sand is almost a powder. I don't think the 20 inch tires would allow me to air down to 18PSI and run on sand. But I could be wrong.

So if you guys could provide your feed back and options, I would greatly appreciate it. I am looking to make a purchase within the next month.

Once again, thanks for reading and your comments are much appreciated.

Thanks,

T4RT

Your fears about engaging/disengaging 4wd on dry pavement are unfounded. No, its not a good idea to engage 4wd on dry pavement and drive 10,000 miles - that sort of abuse will really accelerate wear to your 4wd system and your tires.

Engaging on dry pavement 50yds before/after soft sand? Its a non issue. I like to shift to neutral when disengaging 4wd on dry pavement just so I don't get the "clunk", but its not required. Use it, enjoy it, don't worry about it.

The limited 20" rims/tires will be a dis advantage off-road (and every time you go to buy tires). A new set of rims/tires is an easy fix for this and many have done it. Some have been successful in getting the dealer to swap rims/tires to Trail Edition rims/tires for little to no cost when purchasing new. You can probably buy some lightly used TE rims and make a profit off the 20" rims if you sell them.

Both systems will work well for your intended uses.

David

 

[T4RT]

Canazes9- Thanks for your feedback and I like your setup. I would assume if I ever pulled a boat up a boat ramp that using 4WD for a brief moment would be okay as well?

 

[Canazes9]

Canazes9- Thanks for your feedback and I like your setup. I would assume if I ever pulled a boat up a boat ramp that using 4WD for a brief moment would be okay as well?

Yes that's correct. You will have no problems with either system.

David

 

[Espresso]

I'm in the same situation as you OP. Aside from winter whether driving and the occasional trip on the sands or camping, I don't intend to go wild offroading. Since I currently own a '10 Highlander Limited, I'm use to the added convenience features such as push button start, dual climate control and etc, I think a LE is my future choice. It's going to be a bit harder to find one with the optional 3rd row but would suit me better mall crawling. Buying a set of used 17" wheels and tires would be a no brainer in my case too.

 

[T4RT]

I'm in the same situation as you OP. Aside from winter whether driving and the occasional trip on the sands or camping, I don't intend to go wild offroading. Since I currently own a '10 Highlander Limited, I'm use to the added convenience features such as push button start, dual climate control and etc, I think a LE is my future choice. It's going to be a bit harder to find one with the optional 3rd row but would suit me better mall crawling. Buying a set of used 17" wheels and tires would be a no brainer in my case too.

Espresso -

Glad to know I am not the only one who has this dilemma. The more I think about it I would really like to have the all wheel drive but I don't know if the extra expense is going to be worth it. I could always purchase a 2009 4Runner V8 (my preferred used vehicle choice) but my wife likes the looks of the 5th Gen more. I just wish that Toyota left the 5th Gen like the 4th Gen when it came to the 4WD System. Still wont keep me from purchasing one though!

 

[Quentin]

And really, the only concern is turning on dry pavement with the 4WD engaged on the TE and SR5. That is when your axles spin at different speeds (as required to turn). Going straight in 4WD on dry pavement does no damage.

 

[9Hooker]

And really, the only concern is turning on dry pavement with the 4WD engaged on the TE and SR5. That is when your axles spin at different speeds (as required to turn). Going straight in 4WD on dry pavement does no damage.

This.. straight all day long. In turns, wheels front and back want to spin at different speeds, transmission wants the same speed. eventually the ground will always win.

BTW, I've got a 2010 SR5 with 29k miles for sale. just sayin...

Only substantial mods are rear airbags, tranny cooler, and brake controller. All for towing.

 

[2013Trail]

And really, the only concern is turning on dry pavement with the 4WD engaged on the TE and SR5. That is when your axles spin at different speeds (as required to turn). Going straight in 4WD on dry pavement does no damage.

AWD and fulltime 4wd vehicles don't have this problem when turning in 4wd. But any 4X4 with part-time 4WD like the 4Runner SR5 and the Nissan xTerra, it's gonna feel really weird when turning on pavement especially in tight circles--it's gonna feel like the vehicle is trying to hop.

 

[claytorr]

We just bought a 2010 Limited primarily because it has AWD and in Seattle with the hills and wet winter its nice to have. I am curious is the center diff completely open on the 4runner or does it have a viscous coupling like the land cruiser?

 

[9Hooker]

We just bought a 2010 Limited primarily because it has AWD and in Seattle with the hills and wet winter its nice to have. I am curious is the center diff completely open on the 4runner or does it have a viscous coupling like the land cruiser?

there is no center diff on the SR5 (the concept doesn't apply), it's a transfer case. center diff - always doing some thing = all wheel drive or full time 4wd. transfer case - part time 4wd = engaged or not, it's binary with the 4wd lever.

 

[claytorr]

I was asking about the AWD transfer case in the limited

 

[Jeremy556]

I was asking about the AWD transfer case in the limited

In the limited there is a torsen limited slip center differential.

 

[Sandhopper]

No problems with our 2011 LE on OBX soft sand with stock 20's aired down to 18lbs. I did not even have to put it in part time 4wd or lock the center differential. The AWD system was my biggest concern but it handled just fine on the soft sand.

 

[T4RT]

No problems with our 2011 LE on OBX soft sand with stock 20's aired down to 18lbs. I did not even have to put it in part time 4wd or lock the center differential. The AWD system was my biggest concern but it handled just fine on the soft sand.

Thanks for the feedback Sandhopper. Having driven my Dad's 2002 SR5 4Runner with locking center diff in the past on OBX beaches, and then purchasing a used 2000 WJ Limited with Quadra Drive that I used for the 3 years for beach use (Got a great deal on the WJ from my father in law who was trading up for a MDX), the 5th Gen SR5 / TE's part time system leaves me wanting a locking center diff to give me that extra option. Why I feel I need this option, I can't fully explain. It could by my inner "gadget freak" self saying you need it!

Bottom line - Will an SR5 / TE in 4HI-L get me where I want or need to go on the beach?

The answer is YES without a doubt!

Guess I just need to decide if I want that true flexibility offered by the LE with the AWD to allow maneuverability in all weather/road conditions. My other drawbacks are the LE doesn't come in Salsa Red Pearl (3Q3) and the added initial cost of the LE.

 

[Jeremy556]

Part time 4WD is the same thing as having a center diff locked all of the time.

 

[1engineer]

Thanks for the feedback Sandhopper. Having driven my Dad's 2002 SR5 4Runner with locking center diff in the past on OBX beaches, and then purchasing a used 2000 WJ Limited with Quadra Drive that I used for the 3 years for beach use (Got a great deal on the WJ from my father in law who was trading up for a MDX), the 5th Gen SR5 / TE's part time system leaves me wanting a locking center diff to give me that extra option. Why I feel I need this option, I can't fully explain. It could by my inner "gadget freak" self saying you need it!

Bottom line - Will an SR5 / TE in 4HI-L get me where I want or need to go on the beach?

The answer is YES without a doubt!

Guess I just need to decide if I want that true flexibility offered by the LE with the AWD to allow maneuverability in all weather/road conditions. My other drawbacks are the LE doesn't come in Salsa Red Pearl (3Q3) and the added initial cost of the LE.

[MENTION=95402]T4RT[/MENTION] You need to read up on VSC and what it does. Full Time 4WD is different than true AWD too. In 2WD, VSC will keep the vehicle going on it's intended path. Full or part time 4WD is ONLY GOOD FOR ACCELERATING IN off road or slick conditions, not handling a curve. Remember VSC will "take over" the vehicle if you start to slide around a corner so whether you are in 2WD, part time 4WD or full time 4WD does not matter.

Here is a quote of a post I did a few days ago. Please click on the link at the end to get a full understanding of 4WD and AWD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M1911 View Post
Put it in 4WD on a straight section of highway. Mild turns are probably OK, which is what you'll be doing on the highway.

Yes, in 4WD, anytime you turn a sharp corner you will have some wheel slippage. This is one reason why I prefer the Limited's Torsen-based system in the snow.

No 4WD or AWD system is "safer" in the snow. A 4WD or AWD system only helps you go (accelerate) -- it doesn't help you turn or stop. In fact, it is very easy to get overconfident in the snow because there is little, if any, slipping when you accelerate, so you don't realize that you are going to fast until you have to turn or stop.

I do suggest using 4WD in the snow, but realize what it does and doesn't get you. Personally, I run real snow tires (not all-seasons, but honest-to-god dedicated snow tires) in the winter, because I want the best turning and stopping performance.

Every time I drive in the snow, shortly after I start driving, if there is no one around me I do a panic stop to see just how slippery it is. It often surprises me just how long the stopping distances are, even with snow tires.
This^.

A few additional points and some elementary physics:
If you own a 5th gen SR5 or TE with part time 4WD, you CAN drive on dry pavement. You can even go around most highway turns with no damage or additional stress on the drive train. With that said, go easy on "parking lot" turns. You know, the 90 degree turns in a short distance like pulling into a parking space or turning at the end of the row.

*WARNING* PHYSICS CONTENT *WARNING*
Why is it not a good idea to make sharp turns on dry pavement with part time 4WD? Engaging 4WD "locks" the front and the rear wheels together, forcing them to rotate together and complete the same revolutions over distance. In adverse conditions such as dirt, gravel, mud, snow and ice the reduced availability of adhesion (mu) will allow a tire to slip on the ground with reduced stress on the drive line. On pavement, the higher coefficient of adhesion could (probably not but...) cause damage when making sharp turns.

In normal driving, no tire completes the exact same amount of revolutions. In a turn, the outside tires have to travel further than the inside radius tires because of the width of the track. In addition, the front tires travel further than the rear tires due to the length of the wheelbase. So, if you are making a sharp left turn for example, your right front tire will travel further than the other tires and the left rear will travel the shortest distance.

Here is a link for those of you who want to understand how a 4WD or an AWD works. http://gearpatrol.com/2013/03/29/four-wheel-drive-vs-all-wheel-drive-everything-you-need-to-know/
Hope this helps.

 

[T4RT]

1engineer - I really appreciate you taking the time to keep pointing me in the right direction. I remember your comment from the other day - Physics Content Warning and all! It was great information!

My first experience with VSC was with my Dad's 2002 4Runner SR5. First time I drove it in the rain, I managed to engage the VSC accelerating up a hill in 2WD. The ABS kicked in, power cut back and it kept me pointed in the right direction.

What I didn't know about his 4Runner at the time was when engaged in 4WD, the VSC is still running. The first time I had it in 4WD at the beach, the VSC kicked in while driving though some deep sand at Cape Point in Hatteras. I slowed to a crawl, power seemed to be reduced, but it allowed me to keep just enough momentum to get though that deep spot. When I got back to the house I started reading the owners manual because I thought something was wrong. That is when I discovered the center diff lock feature which disabled VSC when using 4WD Hi or Low. Driving on sand in 4WD Hi with the Diff Lock engaged felt like I was driving an TANK.

So with the 5th Gen 4Runner, when is the VSC disabled? And is it the same on the LE and SR5?

Speaking of SR5, I found a 2011 Toyota Certified SR5 in Salsa Red Pearl with Black Leather down the street at the dealership. Might have to swing by this weekend to take a look. :rockon:

 

[NoDak]

yeah learned my lesson on getting a v6 rav4 sport for the wife. moves ass in the summer, but sucked sometimes during deep snow since it wasnt a true 4wd system.

sold it and got the warden a 4x4 tacoma, now she's happy again.

i went from a 04 v8 sport 4R to a sonata, yeah that didnt last long and i swapped to a legacy awd.

suprised they didnt talk about the subaru awd system in that article as those are about even with a LE FT4WD system minus the clearance.

since i rarely go off the beaten path into the heavy stuff a LE 4wd suits me just fine for my winters.

 

[crouchingwombat]

wheels

I know this is a shameless plug but I just happen to have an extra set of 2013 SR5 wheels laying around in my garage. They have about 200 miles on them from driving the car to port to put different rims on it... I live on the west coast - Reno, PM me if you're interested.