Steel City Racing: King of the Hammers 2019 Toyota 4Runner IFS 4600 Build Thread

[WhiteBoomer04]

Yes! I'm striking out on the doors! Who do I need to call - i'd love to somehow grab 4 doors before they are scrapped!

Sent you a pm

 

[Charles4x4]

Master Kill Switch mounted:

The Kill Switch has been a learning experience. The kit I have kills the battery, but the alternator keeps going.

Their description:
"Our Master Disconnect kit with Emergency Push Button is perfect for race applications as it allows you to install a large push button in easy reach if you need to shut down your vehicle's electrical system in a hurry. Kit comes complete with one 250 AMP solenoid, one Emergency Push Button, wire, mounting hardware and connectors."

Per Painless, I have to either run the kit I have now through a HD disconnect:
Master Disconnect Switch With Mounting PanelDetails | Painless Performance

Or run a second Alternator Kill Switch:
High Amp Alternator Shutdown RelayDetails | Painless Performance

The Alternator kill switch keeps everything in the engine bay and I won't have to run tons of Starter and + Batter cables into the cab, so I'm leaning that way.

 

[bombventure]

Excited to see this build come together. You’ve got some awesome things going on there.

Keep up the good work!!

 

[snivilous]

Not sure how other people do it, but how I originally did it was alternator to battery, battery to switch, then a power line back to battery location where everything tied in. All power sources have to be before the switch (battery and alternator) otherwise the truck won't turn off.

I didn't look at your switch much but it appears to just be a push button? Is it a momentary or a normal switch? I wouldn't run a momentary since then you can't kill the power to everything indefinitely unless you're pushing it down constantly.

Also your location looks really hard to reach. I bet you'll have a hard time reaching your 4WD shifter when you're strapped in, let alone reaching across the dash to kill the thing if it catches on fire. Maybe your arms are really long though.

 

[Charles4x4]

Pic of the heart of the Master Kill Switch wired in the engine bay - the plastic red push button simply finalizes the circuit ground once it is pressed. This is the Heavy Duty portion of the Painless system:

 

[Charles4x4]

Not sure how other people do it, but how I originally did it was alternator to battery, battery to switch, then a power line back to battery location where everything tied in. All power sources have to be before the switch (battery and alternator) otherwise the truck won't turn off.

I didn't look at your switch much but it appears to just be a push button? Is it a momentary or a normal switch? I wouldn't run a momentary since then you can't kill the power to everything indefinitely unless you're pushing it down constantly.

Also your location looks really hard to reach. I bet you'll have a hard time reaching your 4WD shifter when you're strapped in, let alone reaching across the dash to kill the thing if it catches on fire. Maybe your arms are really long though.

See pic I just posted below. The button is just the last 5%. The meat of the system is the solenoid.

I spoke with Painless and purchased the Alternator Kill Switch kit as well. One kills the battery and subsequently triggers the other to kill the alternator.

I can easily reach the switch - with about 6-10" to spare without moving from a fully seated position. I'm 6'0".

 

[snivilous]

See pic I just posted below. The button is just the last 5%. The meat of the system is the solenoid.

I spoke with Painless and purchased the Alternator Kill Switch kit as well. One kills the battery and subsequently triggers the other to kill the alternator.

I can easily reach the switch - with about 6-10" to spare without moving from a fully seated position. I'm 6'0".

What is the point of the alternator kill switch when you already have a kill switch? That sounds like multiple parts when you could just have one part, let alone the solenoid seems like extra parts but to each their own.

Does the solenoid permanently flip off when you press that button once?

 

[Charles4x4]

What is the point of the alternator kill switch when you already have a kill switch? That sounds like multiple parts when you could just have one part, let alone the solenoid seems like extra parts but to each their own.

Does the solenoid permanently flip off when you press that button once?

I have a battery kill switch. I need an alternator Kill Switch that is triggered by the battery kill switch.

For example, crank your 4Runner then disconnect the battery. It keeps running. You have to kill the alternator too and I now need that functionality

 

[snivilous]

I have a battery kill switch. I need an alternator Kill Switch that is triggered by the battery kill switch.

For example, crank your 4Runner then disconnect the battery. It keeps running. You have to kill the alternator too and I now need that functionality

Yes know, that's why I'm asking why you don't run the alternator power through the battery kill switch too. Then one switch kills everything instead of multiple switches and additional complexity.

 

[Charles4x4]

Yes know, that's why I'm asking why you don't run the alternator power through the battery kill switch too. Then one switch kills everything instead of multiple switches and additional complexity.

I won’t say I understand it all, but per my call with Painless that is possible - but I’d need to swap the red switch with the big HD switch in the cab. Which means i’d have to run Starter and Battery cables into the cab, of then tie them into the solenoid, which is the connected to the alternator after the solenoid. At the end of the day, it is one less solenoid, but a whole lot more heavy gauge wiring required.

After talking through it with a painless, we ultimately decided running two solenoids (one for battery that both kills the batter and triggers the kill switch for alternator) triggered by one simple switch with all main wiring in the engine compartment would be better than taking Large Gage wires into the cab. Let’s hope it works that way!

As I said, i’m not an electrical expert so maybe there is a better way! And there are a lot of KOH rigs - surely some of them have encountered this problem and solved it as well.

If this "no wiring in the cab" way doesn't work, we'll ditch the systems and throw a big switch in the cab.

 

[Inv4drZm]

You got a sunroof in that 4Runner? If you will be doing an internal cage, you might save yourself some headache (literally) if you swap to a non-sunroof headliner and gain a couple inches above you.

 

[Charles4x4]

You got a sunroof in that 4Runner? If you will be doing an internal cage, you might save yourself some headache (literally) if you swap to a non-sunroof headliner and gain a couple inches above you.

Yep, it's got one. The seats will be mounted low on the cage, but I've honestly not dove into the sunroof yet. A non-sunroof headliner won't help us with the rules.

Here's the part of the rules that quasi touches it:

"Stock body (body is considered to be the full cab, including all interior and exterior sheet metal, bed, doors, hood, fenders, grill, etc.) required. The body must be complete and unmodified, with the following limitations and exceptions: Holes may be cut in any part of the body for the single and exclusive purpose of allowing roll cage tubes and transmission/transfer case linkage to pass-through the body. Open holes must be kept to within .5" of the diameter of any tube or linkage that passes through the body, with further restrictions related to holes in firewalls specified in Section 8.2.12, Subsection 4. The exception to this rule is the allowance for rocker panel protection limited to the area between the wheel wells. You may cut into the body and/or reinforce this area. You may not interfere with the mating surface of the stock door and doorsill. The stock doorsill must be retained and unaltered."

"Stock windows (glass) are not required, but are permitted, providing they meet DOT regulations. Alternatives to traditional safety-glass may be allowed, on approval of Hammerking Productions Inc."

"All roll cage components (hoops, braces, gussets, etc.) must have a minimum of 3” of clearance from any vehicle occupant’s helmet when occupant is seated in normal driving/riding position. All roll cage components that might come into contact with the vehicle occupants’ helmets must be padded."

"A minimum .040” expanded or flat sheet magnetic steel or .125” aluminum must cover the area immediately above the occupants’ seats and be attached via welding or bolting to a steel tubing frame work."

 

[Inv4drZm]

Yep, it's got one. The seats will be mounted low on the cage, but I've honestly not dove into the sunroof yet. A non-sunroof headliner won't help us with the rules.

Here's the part of the rules that quasi touches it:

"Stock body (body is considered to be the full cab, including all interior and exterior sheet metal, bed, doors, hood, fenders, grill, etc.) required. The body must be complete and unmodified, with the following limitations and exceptions: Holes may be cut in any part of the body for the single and exclusive purpose of allowing roll cage tubes and transmission/transfer case linkage to pass-through the body. Open holes must be kept to within .5" of the diameter of any tube or linkage that passes through the body, with further restrictions related to holes in firewalls specified in Section 8.2.12, Subsection 4. The exception to this rule is the allowance for rocker panel protection limited to the area between the wheel wells. You may cut into the body and/or reinforce this area. You may not interfere with the mating surface of the stock door and doorsill. The stock doorsill must be retained and unaltered."

"Stock windows (glass) are not required, but are permitted, providing they meet DOT regulations. Alternatives to traditional safety-glass may be allowed, on approval of Hammerking Productions Inc."

"All roll cage components (hoops, braces, gussets, etc.) must have a minimum of 3” of clearance from any vehicle occupant’s helmet when occupant is seated in normal driving/riding position. All roll cage components that might come into contact with the vehicle occupants’ helmets must be padded."

"A minimum .040” expanded or flat sheet magnetic steel or .125” aluminum must cover the area immediately above the occupants’ seats and be attached via welding or bolting to a steel tubing frame work."

Yeah I would do the headliner swap/sunroof delete especially if you have already located a 4th gen parts vehicle. There is very little headroom even if you lowered your seats with the sunroof. I guess you don't necessarily need the headliner for your stripped race vehicle, you could just take out the sunroof mechanism and solid-mount the glass...

LTDSC deleted his:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/129842-ltdsc-build-thread-74.html#post2678951

 

[Charles4x4]

Yeah I would do the headliner swap/sunroof delete especially if you have already located a 4th gen parts vehicle. There is very little headroom even if you lowered your seats with the sunroof. I guess you don't necessarily need the headliner for your stripped race vehicle, you could just take out the sunroof mechanism and solid-mount the glass...

LTDSC deleted his:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/129842-ltdsc-build-thread-74.html#post2678951

Headliner is already gone at this point, but his method makes sense. But instead of putting the glass back in, I'd need to do the spacer method and put in sheet metal that I can silicon closed instead.

Adding this to the To-Dos list as we speak .

 

[Charles4x4]

I need some advice on the Master Kill Switch. How are the KOH rigs with only a simple marine kill switch wiring everything to kill both the battery and alternator at once? If I disconnect the battery, the alternator keeps going.

I have this one installed now and it doesn't work:
Remote Disconnect w/Emergency ButtonDetails | Painless Performance
- It doesn't kill the alternator
- And it's now draining the battery even when not-engaged (despite Painless promising me it wouldn't)

I have this one in the box:
High Amp Alternator Shutdown RelayDetails | Painless Performance
- It'll claims it will kill the alternator, but I still have to solve the battery being drained, which means it won't work.

I found this one online:
4430 Master Battery Cut-Off Switch
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=1464
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=TECH00109

Is the Pagusus Auto Racing switch the solution and I can send all the Painless stuff back? Or is there a simpler solution.

What is everyone else doing to kill both the battery and alternator without draining the battery?

 

[snivilous]

I need some advice on the Master Kill Switch. How are the KOH rigs with only a simple marine kill switch wiring everything to kill both the battery and alternator at once? If I disconnect the battery, the alternator keeps going.

This is exactly what I was getting at with previous posts :doh:

Just run your alternator to the battery, and then run a power wire to the switch (or solenoid if you want to do a solenoid) and then run the entire truck on the wire coming off of that. Then the battery and alternator are connected like you want, but literally no other wire comes off the battery without having to pass through the switch. Even the starter goes through the switch, along with everything else.

And again, I don't know how your switch works but it looks like a complicated setup imo. On my Ultra4 I have one huge switch rated to like 250A continuous and there's one huge ass wire running from the battery to it, and then a huge ass wire that runs from the switch back to the engine bay and goes to everything else, as well as having interior functions just come straight off the switch (chase bar, comms, air, etc. instead of running more wires through the firewall).

 

[Charles4x4]

This is exactly what I was getting at with previous posts :doh:

Just run your alternator to the battery, and then run a power wire to the switch (or solenoid if you want to do a solenoid) and then run the entire truck on the wire coming off of that. Then the battery and alternator are connected like you want, but literally no other wire comes off the battery without having to pass through the switch. Even the starter goes through the switch, along with everything else.

And again, I don't know how your switch works but it looks like a complicated setup imo. On my Ultra4 I have one huge switch rated to like 250A continuous and there's one huge ass wire running from the battery to it, and then a huge ass wire that runs from the switch back to the engine bay and goes to everything else, as well as having interior functions just come straight off the switch (chase bar, comms, air, etc. instead of running more wires through the firewall).

Thanks - I'm coming around! I'll need to have the power wire for the alternator after the switch so it'll kill the alternator and everything else at once right?

I'm guessing you have a switch similar to this:
Master Disconnect Switch With Mounting PanelDetails | Painless Performance

I'm about to head out and follow the wire to see where our alternators get power from now...unless someone already knows.

 

[snivilous]

Thanks - I'm coming around! I'll need to have the power wire for the alternator after the switch so it'll kill the alternator and everything else at once right?

I'm guessing you have a switch similar to this:
Master Disconnect Switch With Mounting PanelDetails | Painless Performance

I'm about to head out and follow the wire to see where our alternators get power from now...unless someone already knows.

I don't know what you're considering after or before. But the battery puts out power, and the alternator puts out power, both of those are on the same side of the switch together. Everything ELSE is on the other side of the switch. And yes, that switch looks identical to mine.

 

[Charles4x4]

I don't know what you're considering after or before. But the battery puts out power, and the alternator puts out power, both of those are on the same side of the switch together. Everything ELSE is on the other side of the switch. And yes, that switch looks identical to mine.

From Pirate, which seems to match your thoughts:
This is what I use:. https://www.bluesea.com/products/cat...tches/e-Series

You wire the alternator to the same post as the battery, that way when you switch it to "off"' the engine can no longer run off of just the alternator.

There would be no way for the power from the alternator to get back to the electrical system to keep the vehicle running once the switch is turned off.

-----------------------------------
I'm assuming I'd get the 9002e:
https://www.bluesea.com/products/9002e/e-Series_Selector_Battery_Switch_with_AFD

Battery into Input 1, Alt into Input 2, Output goes back to Battery and Block. Done!

 

[Charles4x4]

Found a few hours last night to remove the Painless kill switch that didn't work and also dropped the stock tank. Within seconds, I realized installing the OEM setup (with upgraded pumps and filter) in the fuel cell wouldn't work as I could never get the seal right (Toyota made it complicated).

So, we need to go with a standard external fuel cell external, EFI based system and I'll just go with an aftermarket sender and gauge. I'll either have to tie it into the stock fuel lines (pic below) or just run it from scratch from the rails or all the way.

Stock Tank:

Stock Lines at Rear Drivers door frame rail:

Stock Connectors:

Lots of space now:

There is an access hatch just before where the cell will be that we can use to run the lines through and into the cargo area.

I'll plan to call Aeromotive later today. Suggestions welcome.