T4R Newbie Questions

[bap]

I'm in the market for an SUV with 4wd or AWD. Not hard core off road, but in-climate weather. I am seeing two types of 4WD controls on the used Gen 5 T4Rs. One type is a dial selector, and the other is a lever. Can anyone tell me the difference? Are there advantages to one over the other? reliability, function, etc?

I do not intend to run 4WD consistently, but I want it for snow in northern AZ.

I am open to objective comments that may help me in my decision. Gen 4 or Gen 5?

Very Respectfully,

Bruce

 

[1engineer]

No difference in performance. One sends an electrical signal to move the actuator and the lever is purely mechanical. End result is the same.

 

[wsmc831]

..and some, like my 10 LE, are full time 4wd, and others are on demand.

 

[philsey]

I'm in the market for an SUV with 4wd or AWD. Not hard core off road, but in-climate weather. I am seeing two types of 4WD controls on the used Gen 5 T4Rs. One type is a dial selector, and the other is a lever. Can anyone tell me the difference? Are there advantages to one over the other? reliability, function, etc?

I do not intend to run 4WD consistently, but I want it for snow in northern AZ.
I am open to objective comments that may help me in my decision. Gen 4 or Gen 5?

Very Respectfully,

Bruce

Just a little more detail ( 5Gen only).

Limited Edition (LE) is FT 4WD.

SR5 and Trail Edition (TE) are identical inasmuch as they are PT 4WD. On the 2010 - 2012 they both had the lever. In '13 the SR5 went to a dial, but it is still PT 4WD, and the TE stayed with the lever.

Functionally, as far as 4WD and your stated purpose, the SR5 and TE perform identically.

 

[K0nfusion]

Do yourself a favor, get the Trail Edition. Then...I'll drive up from Tucson and swap hoods so I have the hood scoop. lol.

But honestly if you're looking to save some money just get a SR5, if you can spend the extra $$, get the Trail. Other 4Runner owners will be jealous.

 

[Maz]

No difference in performance. One sends an electrical signal to move the actuator and the lever is purely mechanical. End result is the same.

While the end result may well be the same, getting to it may be a little different for your circumstances bap. The electrical dial system works through a differential and is a full time system as Philsy and wcmc mention. You can drive on dry pavement with a full time system with no worries of binding.

The lever however is purely mechanical, and also purely a traditional 4WD system which shouldn't be driven on pavement, save for rain or snow which you rarely get in Phoenix. It's not a huge difference, however you do have to engage the 4WD at least 10 miles a month to keep it lubricated.

That's nothing for people who live in rural areas, or close to open trails. However for those who live in large metropolitan areas like yourself, getting to a trail isn't necessarily a simple thing like driving turning onto a dirt road a couple blocks away. I've spent a fair amount of time in Phoenix. It's amazing how far some of the interior areas are from open trails.

Just like in LA where's it not only paved over, the rare off road trail is often not available even if you find it. That's especially true in the summer, when they gate everything off due to fire season.

Perhaps you regularly go to Northern Arizona where you can go off road so this is not an issue. Or this is an occasional thing only for the winter snow, in which case you've got a lot of months to find a place to do your lubrication. If it the latter, you might be a great candidate for a full time system.

Your open mindedness to consider a 4th Generation T4R is good, since I don't believe any of them came with anything but the electrical dial 4X4 option. Good luck whatever you decide, and I think you're really going to enjoy owning a T4R. I've got both a 4th Gen with the dial and a 5th Gen without, and they're both great.

 

[1engineer]

While the end result may well be the same, getting to it may be a little different for your circumstances bap. The electrical dial system works through a differential and is a full time system as Philsy and wcmc mention. You can drive on dry pavement with a full time system with no worries of binding.

The lever however is purely mechanical, and also purely a traditional 4WD system which shouldn't be driven on pavement, save for rain or snow which you rarely get in Phoenix. It's not a huge difference, however you do have to engage the 4WD at least 10 miles a month to keep it lubricated.

That's nothing for people who live in rural areas, or close to open trails. However for those who live in large metropolitan areas like yourself, getting to a trail isn't necessarily a simple thing like driving turning onto a dirt road a couple blocks away. I've spent a fair amount of time in Phoenix. It's amazing how far some of the interior areas are from open trails.

Just like in LA where's it not only paved over, the rare off road trail is often not available even if you find it. That's especially true in the summer, when they gate everything off due to fire season.

Perhaps you regularly go to Northern Arizona where you can go off road so this is not an issue. Or this is an occasional thing only for the winter snow, in which case you've got a lot of months to find a place to do your lubrication. If it the latter, you might be a great candidate for a full time system.

Your open mindedness to consider a 4th Generation T4R is good, since I don't believe any of them came with anything but the electrical dial 4X4 option. Good luck whatever you decide, and I think you're really going to enjoy owning a T4R. I've got both a 4th Gen with the dial and a 5th Gen without, and they're both great.

I was talking about the difference between the SR5 and the TE. One has a dial and one has a lever and they both do the same thing. Of course the LE is different.

 

[Canazes9]

While the end result may well be the same, getting to it may be a little different for your circumstances bap. The electrical dial system works through a differential and is a full time system as Philsy and wcmc mention. You can drive on dry pavement with a full time system with no worries of binding.

The lever however is purely mechanical, and also purely a traditional 4WD system which shouldn't be driven on pavement, save for rain or snow which you rarely get in Phoenix. It's not a huge difference, however you do have to engage the 4WD at least 10 miles a month to keep it lubricated.

That's nothing for people who live in rural areas, or close to open trails. However for those who live in large metropolitan areas like yourself, getting to a trail isn't necessarily a simple thing like driving turning onto a dirt road a couple blocks away. I've spent a fair amount of time in Phoenix. It's amazing how far some of the interior areas are from open trails.

Just like in LA where's it not only paved over, the rare off road trail is often not available even if you find it. That's especially true in the summer, when they gate everything off due to fire season.

Perhaps you regularly go to Northern Arizona where you can go off road so this is not an issue. Or this is an occasional thing only for the winter snow, in which case you've got a lot of months to find a place to do your lubrication. If it the latter, you might be a great candidate for a full time system.

Your open mindedness to consider a 4th Generation T4R is good, since I don't believe any of them came with anything but the electrical dial 4X4 option. Good luck whatever you decide, and I think you're really going to enjoy owning a T4R. I've got both a 4th Gen with the dial and a 5th Gen without, and they're both great.

Barbara Streisand.

Operating a part time 4wd system w/ a transfer case 10 miles/month on dry pavement won't hurt a thing. Making a bunch of sharp turns w/ 4wd engaged on dry pavement ain't doing your tires any good, but effects to the drivetrain are minimal.

David

 

[Maz]

Barbara Streisand.

Operating a part time 4wd system w/ a transfer case 10 miles/month on dry pavement won't hurt a thing. Making a bunch of sharp turns w/ 4wd engaged on dry pavement ain't doing your tires any good, but effects to the drivetrain are minimal.

David

Whatever you say Nicky Arnstein, and how's that gambling problem?

The minimal drive train effect is assuming the person actually remembers to disengage the 4X4...which isn't a given. People over the years have admitted putting their rig in 4X4 somewhere on a trail in one state, only to keep rolling onto the highway and arrive hundreds of miles later in another part of the country.

bap since our friend above isn't going to be paying the bills for anything that goes wrong on your rig, maybe it's a good idea to look into what some other people have to say. Here's a link to a thread from just a few days ago on this very subject. You'll note other opinions on whether driving with a part time system on dry pavement should be a concern.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/157003-trail-4x4-hi-driving.html

Here's another link where JB writes a very detailed and definitive explanation of how the part time system works, including pictures that are invaluable to to understanding the concept. While the information can be a little overwhelming, the photos alone are worth your time.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/133871-using-part-time-4wd-dry-pavement-te-sr5.html

Good luck on finding the perfect T4R!

 

[Canazes9]

Whatever you say Nicky Arnstein, and how's that gambling problem?

The minimal drive train effect is assuming the person actually remembers to disengage the 4X4...which isn't a given. People over the years have admitted putting their rig in 4X4 somewhere on a trail in one state, only to keep rolling onto the highway and arrive hundreds of miles later in another part of the country.

bap since our friend above isn't going to be paying the bills for anything that goes wrong on your rig, maybe it's a good idea to look into what some other people have to say. Here's a link to a thread from just a few days ago on this very subject. You'll note other opinions on whether driving with a part time system on dry pavement should be a concern.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/157003-trail-4x4-hi-driving.html

Here's another link where JB writes a very detailed and definitive explanation of how the part time system works, including pictures that are invaluable to to understanding the concept. While the information can be a little overwhelming, the photos alone are worth your time.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/133871-using-part-time-4wd-dry-pavement-te-sr5.html

Good luck on finding the perfect T4R!

You really should switch to decaf.

The basis of your argument is that someone might forgot to take it back out of 4wd? Can't they forget to do that just as easily if they go find a nice soft dirt road to drive their 10 miles on? If you're afraid that you can't remember to put your part time 4wd back into 2wd and may accidentally drive tens of thousands of miles in 4wd ignoring that 4x4 indicator light in the dash then I agree with you - you shouldn't have a part time 4wd system.

I find it highly comical that you post links to a thread where the members that have experience with the subject at hand disagree w/ your premise. Perhaps you should read the thread yourself, I think you may have missed something. I actually read the thread (and participated in it) - your position is not supported.

It's not a problem for me, nor is driving 10 miles a month on dry pavement for Toyota's part time 4wd systems. Please feel free to do as you wish.


David

 

[Maz]

You really should switch to decaf.

I find it highly comical that you post links to a thread where the members that have experience with the subject at hand disagree w/ your premise. Perhaps you should read the thread yourself, I think you may have missed something. I actually read the thread (and participated in it) - your position is not supported.

It's not a problem for me, nor is driving 10 miles a month on dry pavement for Toyota's part time 4wd systems. Please feel free to do as you wish.


David

I don't drink coffee Dave, but I'll pass on your tip to someone who does. Oh, and thanks for permission to do as I wish. You're a real stand up guy there. :clap2:

Lastly it's great to hear you had a nice laugh about linking a couple of threads. BTW I think you missed something too...that is, this isn't about me and it's not about you. It's about bap the OP, who's starting from scratch and looking to gain knowledge.

While you may think he should just take your word for it, I gave him a head start to find a lot of information and varied opinions to make up his own mind. If you think those opinions don't support whatever this position you seem to think I have is, that's fine by me. I'm not the one making an issue about being "right."

 

[alaskaman]

Men let's all bring the warmth of the Holiday season. Here is my experience.

The lever is ok but the problem is that it's attached to a 5th gen which I don't like.

The 4th Gen is superior for weight balance and has a dial actuator for the 4WD. The V8 is AWD all the time. The V6 you dial into 4Hi to engage. With the Runner moving you dial it in back off the gas a little and it engages. Repeat if necessary. Don't run 4Hi over 50 mph. You can also lock the differential which allows all wheels to spin in unison which is great for deep slush or deep powder over ice.

The balance of the 4th Gen is superior and with a good AT Tire you should not have to worry about coming from PHX to Flag if that is where you are heading. 3rd Gen have a lighter tail, 5th gens ride higher.

I recommend the Pirelli Scorpion ATR. Claws on dry and respectable in snow and wet. Here is a link to that tire which six years later are still great tread and smooth as silk on the highway.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/32751-beast-meets-snow-pirelli-scorpion-atr.html

Whichever you decide pick the one you intuitively like. You will want that comfort feel in any kind of wet not a @%$**&! I wish I had the other one which will take your attention off the road where it should be.

Have fun. Don't piss on ice.

 

[Maz]

The 4th Gen is superior for weight balance and has a dial actuator for the 4WD. The V8 is AWD all the time. The V6 you dial into 4Hi to engage. With the Runner moving you dial it in back off the gas a little and it engages. Repeat if necessary. Don't run 4Hi over 50 mph.

We have both and I have to admit while I got the 5th Gen Trail for it's additional height and nice set up for off road, the 4th Gen Sport is noticeably more agile for street driving. In addition not having to be concerned about the type or location of driving in 4H makes life easier.

Question alaska, about not running 4H over 50 MPH. I hadn't heard that before and thought 4H could be used at any speed? Is that just your preference, or is there a specific reason?

 

[eddiebx]

[MENTION=96409]Canazes9[/MENTION] and [MENTION=47936]Maz[/MENTION], might I suggest a :grouphug:
[MENTION=102810]bap[/MENTION], I think the only slight slight advantage that the lever has over the dial is you have one less actuator to go bad (the one in the t-case mimicking us manually pulling the lever)? But with both you're still at the mercy of the ADD actuator (front differential disconnect), so the lever is not 100% manual and fool proof either.

I would just pick the trim level you want, and don't let the dial/lever influence your decision, it's probably all the same think in terms of reliability, from a practical stand point.

 

[eddiebx]

We have both and I have to admit while I got the 5th Gen Trail for it's additional height and nice set up for off road, the 4th Gen Sport is noticeably more agile for street driving. In addition not having to be concerned about the type or location of driving in 4H makes life easier.

Question alaska, about not running 4H over 50 MPH. I hadn't heard that before and thought 4H could be used at any speed? Is that just your preference, or is there a specific reason?

No top speed limit in 4H I don't think; the only thing I remember the manual stating is don't switch in to 4H above 55mph, but you can switch out of it at any speed.

From a safety perspective, if you need 4H to get moving, then you probably shouldn't be driving faster than 50mph to begin with, lol.

 

[alaskaman]

We have both and I have to admit while I got the 5th Gen Trail for it's additional height and nice set up for off road, the 4th Gen Sport is noticeably more agile for street driving. In addition not having to be concerned about the type or location of driving in 4H makes life easier.

Question alaska, about not running 4H over 50 MPH. I hadn't heard that before and thought 4H could be used at any speed? Is that just your preference, or is there a specific reason?

Here is a link to just that question with some thoughts. I rarely go above 50 in 4WD. Others felt that it was no problem. You can but why would you?

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/103966-speed-when-4hi.html

 

[Maz]

Here is a link to just that question with some thoughts. I rarely go above 50 in 4WD. Others felt that it was no problem. You can but why would you?

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/103966-speed-when-4hi.html

That was a very interesting link, and like the question of part time systems on dry pavement there are different viewpoints. Thanks....much appreciated.

As to why would you drive faster than 50 MPH in 4WD? On occasion I've done so while in wetter conditions on an Interstate or freeway. Around here the roads can get slippery from oil spots accumulating between very infrequent rains. However driving slow (as in under 50) on freeways isn't always such a great idea.

4WD gives you such a locked in / solid feeling on wet pavement, and I've never experienced hydro planing or any slippage while using it. Fortunately it doesn't occur that often.

 

[Antman]

285's will only fit if you have the lever.



I kid! I kid! :snacker:

 

[Maz]

285's will only fit if you have the lever.



I kid! I kid! :snacker:

Instigator!....LOL....:whip2:

 

[1engineer]

That was a very interesting link, and like the question about driving on dry pavement with a part time system there are several different viewpoints. Thanks....much appreciated.

As to why would you drive faster than 50 MPH in 4WD? On occasion I've done so while in wetter conditions on an Interstate or freeway. Around here the roads can get slippery from oil spots accumulating between very infrequent rains. However driving slow (as in under 50) on freeways isn't always such a great idea.

4WD gives you such a locked in / solid feeling when driving on wet roads, and I've never experienced any hydro planing or slipping using it. Fortunately it's not needed very often.

Are you for real?
4WD HI helps you accelerate. That is all it does! If your 4Runner detects slip at 60 mph, regardless if you are in 4WD or 2WD VSC will kick in. EX: If you are in 4HI going around a slick snow covered corner while accelerating and your front wheels start to slide the front wheels will not pull you through at all. Your VSC TRAC will engage, breaking and r e t a r d i n g throttle as necessary to keep you from sliding.

So you are thinking 4WD somehow keeps a thin film of water from lifting your 4Runner off the asphalt at speed? Really? Maybe you are thinking that having it in 4WD will somehow magically allow you to gain traction on that film of water while hydroplaning? Sorry it does not work like that. The laws of physics cannot be broken. Tires, mass and speed are the culprits in a hydroplane situation. 4WD does not improve any of those things. Buy some good tires and slow down and you won't hydroplane.