The 3.4L TRD Supercharger Thread

[Fisheroon]

Hmmm well that is odd about the restarting thing. I may very be incorrect on my original guess. A scan tool should be able to verify if what I thought is true (basically find the PID for “fuel control” or “fuel system” and it will say either “open loop” or “closed loop”. Closed loop means the computer is in full fuel control and will do whatever it takes to keep emissions down and run at 14.7:1 AFR. Open loop means it will add fuel based on demand, basically, and ignore other parameters to complete the task.

Open loop: engine temperature cold, load demand is high (wide open throttle/80% or more throttle demand) etc

Closed loop: engine warmed up, load demand is low, cruising around, weak throttle demand etc.

That’s the best I can describe the 2 operating modes.

I would try and verify what the main computer is doing when you experience your symptoms.

The timing control is always active, but is more effective below 3K because yes the main computer ignores the knock sensors. That being said, changes to timing above 3K does help protect the engine by expanding the affective safe zone in which the computer can operate (the computer can only change timing so much, and by changing its zone it allows it to operate less “on-the- edge” of its zone). That’s my understanding.

Thanks, that's a great description of the operating conditions and helps to clear up my confusion. I'll see if I can use my bluetooth OBDII app to read those PIDs.

I would love to figure out this problem so I can fine-tune the fuel/timing maps a bit. It runs so much better after restarting but I can feel it pulling timing and losing power. I would love to smooth/reduce the timing table out a bit. It just makes it really difficult when the truck seems to have two "ECU maps" depending on whether or not I restart it...

 

[4Reak Show]

Thanks, that's a great description of the operating conditions and helps to clear up my confusion. I'll see if I can use my bluetooth OBDII app to read those PIDs.

I would love to figure out this problem so I can fine-tune the fuel/timing maps a bit. It runs so much better after restarting but I can feel it pulling timing and losing power. I would love to smooth/reduce the timing table out a bit. It just makes it really difficult when the truck seems to have two "ECU maps" depending on whether or not I restart it...

Yeah that sounds frustrating. It’s really odd. Another thing to verify is all the settings. In there you can control the enrichment trigger point via rpm or boost or both.

I also helped a guy tune once and we had found that one of the tables had a random number in one cell and that didn’t make any sense. Didn’t affect his at all but it’s something to verify.

Another thing that happened to me once: I had done some dash work and had accidentally pinched the vacuum line that feeds the URD control box. This made it so it was always at zero PSI (atmospheric) and was DUMPING fuel in thinking I was at the threshold of boosting. My numbers were like in the 9:1’s at idle!! Pretty crazy. Unlikely to be your issue but what I’m saying is weird stuff can happen with this system if you don’t watch it

 

[Fisheroon]

Yeah that sounds frustrating. It’s really odd. Another thing to verify is all the settings. In there you can control the enrichment trigger point via rpm or boost or both.

I also helped a guy tune once and we had found that one of the tables had a random number in one cell and that didn’t make any sense. Didn’t affect his at all but it’s something to verify.

Another thing that happened to me once: I had done some dash work and had accidentally pinched the vacuum line that feeds the URD control box. This made it so it was always at zero PSI (atmospheric) and was DUMPING fuel in thinking I was at the threshold of boosting. My numbers were like in the 9:1’s at idle!! Pretty crazy. Unlikely to be your issue but what I’m saying is weird stuff can happen with this system if you don’t watch it

The R4 software seems to be pretty finicky from what I can tell, especially with the settings that we have to use! It sounds like I have a few things to look into as possible culprits so thanks for the suggestions. I'll update if I figure anything out!

 

[JROTN]

Used supercharger prices

Hey, I've been toying with the idea of getting a supercharger, what are they going for used? I found one, 4th gen but he wants $3,000 and it has the old style tensioner. Is the Magnuson the same as the TRD? They want $3500 for a new one. Anybody have info on what fair prices are for used ones?

Thanks, JROTN

 

[gamefreakgc]

Hey, I've been toying with the idea of getting a supercharger, what are they going for used? I found one, 4th gen but he wants $3,000 and it has the old style tensioner. Is the Magnuson the same as the TRD? They want $3500 for a new one. Anybody have info on what fair prices are for used ones?

Thanks, JROTN

Ever since Toyota dropped the TRD performance parts these things have shot up in price. Used to be you could pick them up used for around $1500-$2000 on average. Now it's more like $2500 used. $3000 is too much for a used one since you'll probably have to rebuilt parts of it.

The Magnuson chargers are the exact same unit, they just removed the TRD logo from the top. No difference at all. Seeing that it has the old tensioner, it's fairly old and will probably need a rebuild. I would keep looking.

 

[worldwearyposer]

The R4 software seems to be pretty finicky from what I can tell, especially with the settings that we have to use! It sounds like I have a few things to look into as possible culprits so thanks for the suggestions. I'll update if I figure anything out!

I have been tinkering with R4 software here in Lakewood, CO for a while now. I'm on 2.1 pulley and auto though.

Try zeroing out all the fuel until around 5000rpm+ and near to at max boost (which will likely be around the 4-6psi range on the map), then only add just a bit like 1.1 or 1.2. At altitude we actually don't really NEED the 7th injector, for my setup I only need this bit, so I assume on 2.2 you likely might not even need it. At WOT, my afrs actually were slightly rich till over 5000rpm, which is when it starts to lean out around 13, hence the spritz of fuel then.

Timing is the hardest thing to get right, but I found my truck runs significantly better by lowering the overpressure value to around 1.5, rather than the oft recommended and default 3 value. From my understanding this is the psi read where it starts the closed loop enrichment, and since our maps are all skewed left by a few columns due to altitude it would stand to reason we need to lower this value as well. For instance when I'm boosting around 1-2psi, on the map its reading basically the vacuum/0psi threshold. My max boost is ~8.5psi as per gauge, but ~6.5psi on map. Even then, I still had to pull timing from around 1500-3000rpm using roughly -3 to -6 range.

Having said all that I plan on actually getting it dyno tuned here soon. I'm really trying to avoid water meth. Also I wish I had a 5spd lol

 

[JROTN]

Ever since Toyota dropped the TRD performance parts these things have shot up in price. Used to be you could pick them up used for around $1500-$2000 on average. Now it's more like $2500 used. $3000 is too much for a used one since you'll probably have to rebuilt parts of it.

The Magnuson chargers are the exact same unit, they just removed the TRD logo from the top. No difference at all. Seeing that it has the old tensioner, it's fairly old and will probably need a rebuild. I would keep looking.

Thanks gamefreakgc

I thought it was too much after looking at parts prices to rebuild. Just thought I'd check since this is new research for me.
Can they be successfully installed on a 96 Tacoma?
I have seen threads stating yes and no.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Thanks gamefreakgc

I thought it was too much after looking at parts prices to rebuild. Just thought I'd check since this is new research for me.
Can they be successfully installed on a 96 Tacoma?
I have seen threads stating yes and no.

There were some subtle differences between the years from 96-98 in how the ECU functions. I have also heard that sometimes the ECU will not adjust as well as say, a 98. The only years I know that will not work well at all are early year T100's. I would ask URD at Contact Us - Underdog Racing Development and ask, as they have put a lot of R&D into Toyotas and know a lot more than I do. They also sell all sorts of performance goodies for the 5VZ-FE, it's worth a look around.

I have personally seen 96 Tacoma's that are supercharged. They have all been manuals, if that matters at all.

 

[bsdoig]

Need some general advice.

Just installed a supercharger on my 2000 4runner. List of Mods: 2.2 pulley, 7th injector, URD AIC with base tune, iridium ik22, walbro fuel pump (93octane).

They truck runs great, with no notable pinging in any situation. However, it kind of bothers me that I don’t know if it’s running lean, based on all the issues people seem to have. I’ve toyed around with the idea of installing an AEM wideband, but at the same time, I feel like I would just be wasting $200.

What is everyone a opinion? Just let it ride? Or would you buy a wideband to monitor?

 

[Speedy]

Need some general advice.

Just installed a supercharger on my 2000 4runner. List of Mods: 2.2 pulley, 7th injector, URD AIC with base tune, iridium ik22, walbro fuel pump (93octane).

They truck runs great, with no notable pinging in any situation. However, it kind of bothers me that I don’t know if it’s running lean, based on all the issues people seem to have. I’ve toyed around with the idea of installing an AEM wideband, but at the same time, I feel like I would just be wasting $200.

What is everyone a opinion? Just let it ride? Or would you buy a wideband to monitor?

I would always recommend a wideband. Great to know that things are right and help troubleshoot when they're not.

 

[Fisheroon]

I have been tinkering with R4 software here in Lakewood, CO for a while now. I'm on 2.1 pulley and auto though.

Try zeroing out all the fuel until around 5000rpm+ and near to at max boost (which will likely be around the 4-6psi range on the map), then only add just a bit like 1.1 or 1.2. At altitude we actually don't really NEED the 7th injector, for my setup I only need this bit, so I assume on 2.2 you likely might not even need it. At WOT, my afrs actually were slightly rich till over 5000rpm, which is when it starts to lean out around 13, hence the spritz of fuel then.

Timing is the hardest thing to get right, but I found my truck runs significantly better by lowering the overpressure value to around 1.5, rather than the oft recommended and default 3 value. From my understanding this is the psi read where it starts the closed loop enrichment, and since our maps are all skewed left by a few columns due to altitude it would stand to reason we need to lower this value as well. For instance when I'm boosting around 1-2psi, on the map its reading basically the vacuum/0psi threshold. My max boost is ~8.5psi as per gauge, but ~6.5psi on map. Even then, I still had to pull timing from around 1500-3000rpm using roughly -3 to -6 range.

Having said all that I plan on actually getting it dyno tuned here soon. I'm really trying to avoid water meth. Also I wish I had a 5spd lol

Thanks for the suggestions. I lowered my overpressure setting to 1 psi a while back thinking that it may help with the same thought process that you have. I guess I'm still more confused about the discrepancy I'm seeing between when it runs way richer after "restarting" and when it runs leaner most of the time. I'll pull up my maps and play around with them some more.

I hope that you are able to get it on the dyno. I would be really curious to see the results at our elevation!

 

[Speedy]

What do you guys mean by over pressure?

Sounds like an O2 sensor or MAF calibrator issue.

 

[4Reak Show]

What do you guys mean by over pressure?

Sounds like an O2 sensor or MAF calibrator issue.

In the R4 software one of the setting options is for “overpressure” and that’s the minimum pressure the URD controller needs to see for enrichment. Stock from URD it’s set to 2.9 since the theory is that the engine begins to lean out around 3 psi from their experience. And the stock map doesn’t have a value until 3 psi.

I played around with it a couple years back and set it to 0. So anytime I began boosting (or developing positive pressure) the URD unit would allow for closed loop enrichment. However, I noticed it only does things if there’s a value in the appropriate box cooresponding to that setting. And it WILL get you very rich. Too rich. I was hitting low 10’s high 9’s under partial throttle at times. Just wasting gas.

For example: if you set “overpressure” to 1 psi and leave the entire 1psi column at 0 nothing really happens. However, set overpressure to 1 psi and populate the 1psi column to 1 or something and it will allow for enrichment in that range, even if closed loop. (BUT, the system has to have 02 sensors. The AFR later model 3.4’s require a different add on box to achieve closed loop enrichment).

That’s my understanding of it. If anyone knows more or can correct me, please do so.

 

[Speedy]

Thanks for that info. Mine's a 2002 and uses the MAF calibrator, I think, for part throttle enrichment. Mine isn't adjustable. At half throttle I'll see 13.0 on my AFR gauge.

 

[jman11788]

Just received my "1st gen" TRD Supercharger for my 2000!! I've noticed a few different things from the 1st gen and later gen superchargers on the 3.4. The 2nd gen has a hose fitment right on the throttle body for the PCV valve and the 1st gen does not.. I have looked for other places on the 1st gen and cant find a fitting for the PCV valve. Did some research and cant seem to find an answer??

 

[worldwearyposer]

Does this help? Supercharger | TTORA Forum

 

[jman11788]

Does this help? Supercharger | TTORA Forum

Yes!! I saw that fitting but it’s so far back I didn’t think it would reach that far. It’s just odd to me it all way in the back on the gray one and right there on the side for the 2nd gen

 

[4Reak Show]

Yes!! I saw that fitting but it’s so far back I didn’t think it would reach that far. It’s just odd to me it all way in the back on the gray one and right there on the side for the 2nd gen

Seems like you already got it figured out. But anyway, I have this vacuum decal I made for member who had a 1st gen. I don’t own a 1st gen to verify, but the member claimed it was correct.

 

[worldwearyposer]

I forgot to update, but awhile ago (3/18/21) I took it to get dyno tuned at RMCR (~6000ft alt). Made 210whp/244ftlbs on their DynoJet. Apparently I had street tuned it pretty well and they barely did any changes. This is 2.1 pulley, 7th injector, magnaflow overland catback, 32s, automatic 2nd gear pull.

 

[Black798]

I meant to post this a few weeks ago when we did the comparison but totally spaced it. Now that I have both a Turboed 3.4 and supercharged 3.4 4runner it was a good time to do a side by side shootout.

White truck on the left is my Turboed one in my build thread. Weighs 5200lbs, 35s, 5.29s, mapecu3 piggyback, supra Injectors, aem fuel pump, custom exhaust. Running 4psi at the time of the video

Black truck on the right is my 02 supercharged sport. Weighs 4klbs, 33s, 4.10s, Trd supercharger with the stock pulley, TRD 7th injector, magnaflow overland catback. Based off when I had the supercharger and stock pulley on the white one it should be running about 6 to 7 psi depending on the day.

Pretty cool to see the comparison and I was honestly surprised by the results. Fully expected it to be neck and neck or the black one to have a slight edge. You can see when the white truck grabs second gear and hits full boost, after that it just kept pulling and pulling. We only rand down about an 1/8th mile and never got the chance to go from a roll.

3rd Gen 4Runner TRD Supercharger vs Ebay Turbo! - YouTube