The Obsessive Compulsive Guide to Radiators and Transmission Coolers

[UTEP]

Hi.


Short Version

1. Do not install a remote cooler bypassing the radiator. Manufactures such as B&M suggest not. Maybe if you live above the latitude 40°.

2. Replace your radiator if you fear the “strawberry milkshake”.

3. Just about all radiators are created equal.



Long Version

1. I bought a B&M 72068 and right away knew it was not enough to keep a tranny cool in a temperate to desert climate. B&M strongly suggests for it’s tranny coolers to route through the radiator, in fact stating you will get no where near the cooling if used solo. They have others but these are not tranny coolers and require additional support to make effective in all climates. While you will not have to worry about “strawberry milkshake” you should be concerned about overheating the trans, an issue that can fry a trans just as quick. If you do this; install a trans temp gauge. If anyone has with say the B&M 72068 please and by-passed radiator please chime in with a temperature report.

2. “Strawberry milkshake” does not seem to occur with too low of miles <50k although I found at least one report of this out of the box. Mostly over 100k. Seems to be more common with 3rd gen stock radiators so I suppose a Toyota defect in design. A new maintained radiator should keep this at bay for some time. Distilled water Toyota red or equal etc…. Most stock auto trans cars/truck use this cooling system with no problem.

3. I could not find definite information of radiator manufactures. Most seem to strongly suggest Koyo. Unfortunately plenty of evidence that if you mail order you will receive a re-branded TYC that gets very low marks. Spectra is also rumored to be in cahoots with Koyo as is Denso. Bottom line; you can’t tell by the label. There are some off brands to be avoided and this is just because you can find those with some feedback here and elsewhere. I chose a Spectra from Autozone for $137 and a walk-in lifetime guarantee. I found no complaints anywhere. Seemed to be the best local/nation-wide option. The Spectra is better built than what ever is in my 2000 T4R (appears to be a Denso)

In my experience cooling systems are often the most neglected. Stay on the maintenance schedule and you should be ok. Autozone lifetime warranty will allow a free change if you see any anomalies…Hard to beat that with a stick.

HTH

Warren

 

[quicksilvr]

I'm a little confused. You don't have any temperature experience (data) with the setup, yet you are stating factually, and I quote, "do not install a remote cooler bypassing the radiator."


Maybe do a little searching on the forum, as this topic has been gone over quite extensively. A little note: it's completely fine to bypass the radiator with an external cooler. In a year of driving with the 70268 bypassing the radiator, I only saw over 200 degree's one time....climbing a pass in Colorado while on vacation. at 12,700 ft.

 

[amalik]

The truly obsessive folks here on the forum regarding strawberry milkshake will swear that you are at threat with a brand new radiator (Probably because of the fact that a new Radiator is likely going to be aftermarket... the plates inside separating tranny/coolant fluid degrade over time faster than OEM just by the price/materials of an aftermarket vs OEM.)

I tried to buy an OEM radiator for my 3rd gen but said no when they quoted me at $500.

I still haven't done a B&M but for Colorado folks I hear the weather is not extreme in either direction to worry about the B&M not cooling in hot weather. When I find some time I want to get one installed though.

 

[SIKHILUXSURF]

Hi.


Short Version

1. Do not install a remote cooler bypassing the radiator. Manufactures such as B&M suggest not. Maybe if you live above the latitude 40°.

2. Replace your radiator if you fear the “strawberry milkshake”.

3. Just about all radiators are created equal.



Long Version

1. I bought a B&M 72068 and right away knew it was not enough to keep a tranny cool in a temperate to desert climate. B&M strongly suggests for it’s tranny coolers to route through the radiator, in fact stating you will get no where near the cooling if used solo. They have others but these are not tranny coolers and require additional support to make effective in all climates. While you will not have to worry about “strawberry milkshake” you should be concerned about overheating the trans, an issue that can fry a trans just as quick. If you do this; install a trans temp gauge. If anyone has with say the B&M 72068 please and by-passed radiator please chime in with a temperature report.

2. “Strawberry milkshake” does not seem to occur with too low of miles <50k although I found at least one report of this out of the box. Mostly over 100k. Seems to be more common with 3rd gen stock radiators so I suppose a Toyota defect in design. A new maintained radiator should keep this at bay for some time. Distilled water Toyota red or equal etc…. Most stock auto trans cars/truck use this cooling system with no problem.

3. I could not find definite information of radiator manufactures. Most seem to strongly suggest Koyo. Unfortunately plenty of evidence that if you mail order you will receive a re-branded TYC that gets very low marks. Spectra is also rumored to be in cahoots with Koyo as is Denso. Bottom line; you can’t tell by the label. There are some off brands to be avoided and this is just because you can find those with some feedback here and elsewhere. I chose a Spectra from Autozone for $137 and a walk-in lifetime guarantee. I found no complaints anywhere. Seemed to be the best local/nation-wide option. The Spectra is better built than what ever is in my 2000 T4R (appears to be a Denso)

In my experience cooling systems are often the most neglected. Stay on the maintenance schedule and you should be ok. Autozone lifetime warranty will allow a free change if you see any anomalies…Hard to beat that with a stick.

HTH

Warren

#3 and where are you basing you information from? if you dont work in the industry or know from experience then don't spread incorrect and misleading information. not all radiators are created equal. as far as where you order it from why would you get a TYC instad of a Koyo of you ordered a Koyo? Koyo Radiator is its own company separate from TYC, Denso and i dont know how spectra was brought into the mix. TYC is one of the worlds largest Aftermarket light, radiator and a/c component manufacturers in the world. Koyo only does radiators and A/C condensers only.

 

[amalik]

Quick -- With that type of elevation; I bet the temperature would be 200+ on the Radiator trying to cool Tranny fluid too.

I'm a little confused. You don't have any temperature experience (data) with the setup, yet you are stating factually, and I quote, "do not install a remote cooler bypassing the radiator."


Maybe do a little searching on the forum, as this topic has been gone over quite extensively. A little note: it's completely fine to bypass the radiator with an external cooler. In a year of driving with the 70268 bypassing the radiator, I only saw over 200 degree's one time....climbing a pass in Colorado while on vacation. at 12,700 ft.

 

[NachoPitt]

I use my scanguage to monitor temps. Transmissions seem to be happy between 165f-200f. The cooler temps help shifts and prolong clutch packs. Not being tied to engine temps is helpful - my engine would warm to 200 or so and so would the tranny before I installed the external cooler. I bypassed it with the B&M 70268. Engine is now around 200 on a hot day with A/C and the tranny is about 170. Both are happy with that temp.

My tranny rarely sees over 195f, over a variety of conditions - mountains, desert, towing, etc.

I recently replaced my OEM radiator with a Koyo (purchased online - you can find them, you just have to look - it was $135 shipped to me) and again bypassed the internal radiator.

 

[UTEP]

I'm a little confused. You don't have any temperature experience (data) with the setup, yet you are stating factually, and I quote, "do not install a remote cooler bypassing the radiator."


Maybe do a little searching on the forum, as this topic has been gone over quite extensively. A little note: it's completely fine to bypass the radiator with an external cooler. In a year of driving with the 70268 bypassing the radiator, I only saw over 200 degree's one time....climbing a pass in Colorado while on vacation. at 12,700 ft.

Thanks,

You are correct it has been gone over ad naseum but there is much opinion and little or no facts. I confess mine is opinion based on ~3 days of research reading lord knows how many threads here and elsewhere (combined with wrenching on vehicles for over 30 years). Kind of ashamed to admit I probably spent 5-8 hours on this! Point is you can find what ever answer you want and unfortunatly there are many people just bypassing the radiator instead of doing it "right"; right subject to interpretation.

My "data" comes from B&M website on their cooler installation combined with several posts I tracked down but professional mechanics who were appalled people were running AT coolers by passing the radiator.

Re your data. What temps were you getting before? What was the ambient temperature? I do not doubt you and am only very curious.

Thanks,

Warren

 

[UTEP]

#3 and where are you basing you information from? if you dont work in the industry or know from experience then don't spread incorrect and misleading information. not all radiators are created equal. as far as where you order it from why would you get a TYC instad of a Koyo of you ordered a Koyo? Koyo Radiator is its own company separate from TYC, Denso and i dont know how spectra was brought into the mix. TYC is one of the worlds largest Aftermarket light, radiator and a/c component manufacturers in the world. Koyo only does radiators and A/C condensers only.

You are correct I am not in the industry and do not have any facts on manufactuers and no one else who is posting does either! It's all opinion.

BUT

I based this on posts where buyers posted images of boxes that said Kyo and had TYC radiators in them. Others chimed in with similar experiences. I read several posts stating Spectra and Koyo have a relationship as well and people have gotten Spectra's with Koyo markings. Point is there are more radiator brands than manufactuers.
The only place my Spectra says Spectra is on the box. Are Koyo's stamped with Koyo? All the radiators I have seen have paint on markings...none cast into the plastic... BTW the part number for the Spectra is 1998....coincidence.... maybe...


Draw you own conclusions.... And if you can find definitive proof please post! I would not be suprised to learn Koyo makes radiators for more than one company to different specs and the best for Koyo...
Who knows..

Warren

 

[UTEP]

I use my scanguage to monitor temps. Transmissions seem to be happy between 165f-200f. The cooler temps help shifts and prolong clutch packs. Not being tied to engine temps is helpful - my engine would warm to 200 or so and so would the tranny before I installed the external cooler. I bypassed it with the B&M 70268. Engine is now around 200 on a hot day with A/C and the tranny is about 170. Both are happy with that temp.

My tranny rarely sees over 195f, over a variety of conditions - mountains, desert, towing, etc.

I recently replaced my OEM radiator with a Koyo (purchased online - you can find them, you just have to look - it was $135 shipped to me) and again bypassed the internal radiator.

That's good news!

I'd still love to eliminate the strawberry milkshake but as I said B&M and others advise strongly against.

BTW where is your T sensor? What would be the best place to mount one?

I don't have a gauge now and am about to do the install leaning heavily to NOT bypassing the radiator since I have a brand new one. I wonder what the combination would do? Would the radiator actually heat up the tranny fluid to a higher T making the B&M less effective?

I said I was obsessive compulsive didn't I?

Thanks,

Warren

 

[NateMob]

Simply incorrect information being spewed in this thread. Why would B&M recommend against something they sell? On the first page of their own PDF they recommend the 70266 and the 70272 as adequate cooling for bypassing the radiator or if you have a radiator without the extra cooler.

http://bmracing.com/wp-bnmcont/uploads/bm_cooler_techdoc.pdf

Being in el paso you want the biggest cooler you can fit up there, I'm just up the road in Alamogordo.

I too monitor my temps via Scangauge and only see temps over 190* on the hottest summer days creeping in 4lo. At that point i give it a break til temps come down a bit.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I just bought a (real) Koyo for $200 and skipped the trans cooler.

 

[UTEP]

Simply incorrect information being spewed in this thread. Why would B&M recommend against something they sell? On the first page of their own PDF they recommend the 70266 and the 70272 as adequate cooling for bypassing the radiator or if you have a radiator without the extra cooler.

http://bmracing.com/wp-bnmcont/uploads/bm_cooler_techdoc.pdf

Being in el paso you want the biggest cooler you can fit up there, I'm just up the road in Alamogordo.

I too monitor my temps via Scangauge and only see temps over 190* on the hottest summer days creeping in 4lo. At that point i give it a break til temps come down a bit.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. B&M states you MUST use the 70266 if you by pass. 70266 is NOT a transmission cooler. I am referring to transmission coolers and the 70266 is lacking something, the term escapes me, that regulate the way the cooler acts.
Most common is the 72068 or 64... the 13k btu and 14k btu respectively. The 70266 is a 20k btu cooler but may cause issues on cold days.

Not false information.. Read about the transmission coolers before you boil over.

W

 

[1985taylor1925]

I did like Brian and just bought a new rad. Except I went with Denso. I got it from a company that sells only radiators, for I believe $270, and I have absolutely no fear of pink milkshake occuring. I remember reading on the forum a while back that Denso was one of two OEM rads, or THE OEM rad used on our trucks, though I admit I have no idea who said it at this point.

I still fail to see the logic in buying a tranny cooler rather than just getting a new rad unless you live in a really hot climate. One could get a tranny cooler and still have the rad fail from corrosion. So really someone with high mileage purchasing a tranny cooler should also get a new rad. Why not just skip the cooler and save the money and just get a new rad. Ill plan on changing mine again after I put 150k miles on it, with no fear of failure in that span.

 

[AlphaEcho2k5]

I replaced the radiator (by passed), trans fluid (looked fine) and installed a cooler. Overkill? maybe but I won't be worrying about any milkshakes either.

 

[UnderFire]

I've got an odd question about the cause of the pink milkshake problem.

Would it make a difference if there was no transmission fluid flowing through the radiator, or would you still be succeptable to the coolant getting into the area the trans fluid would be, and possibly leaking out causing overheating.

I ask because for some reason the previous owner put a radiator for an automatic into my manual trans 4runner. But I guess this could also apply to someone who bypassed it by running an external cooler alone.

 

[Ol'Blue]

Or just do like I did and get new Radiator(Denso) and use a pro grade Trans cooler for a Trophy Truck. Done and Done. Going to get a scan gauge next so I can monitor the Temps of both.

Look up the guys at the Truck Shop in San Diego CA.


Blue

 

[NateMob]

They list it as a transmission cooler dude. Read the description. You think because it doesn't have a "low temp bypass" it isn't a trans cooler? Like i said i live in New Mexico, it doesn't stay below freezing here, ever.

What you just stated is completely different than what you have littered throughout your first post. Both of your #1 points in the OP are nothing more than your loose interpretation of what you have read online and experienced with one small cooler. The rest is just rambling and thinking out loud.

This "guide" is unneeded and unfounded without any sort of empirical data. This site has plenty of discussion on the topic without the new threads that get posted every other day by some clueless, new, 3rd gen owner.

 

[Boom Headshot]

B&M only recommends not to bypass because of liability issues. I have a 70264 with a 315cfm fan behind it. No temp gauge (my next project) but I can tell the thing is cooler than it was stock just by feeling it. Things change when someone goes full retard, blows his shit up, blames B&M and everyone gets all lawyery.

 

[UTEP]

They list it as a transmission cooler dude. Read the description. You think because it doesn't have a "low temp bypass" it isn't a trans cooler? Like i said i live in New Mexico, it doesn't stay below freezing here, ever.

What you just stated is completely different than what you have littered throughout your first post. Both of your #1 points in the OP are nothing more than your loose interpretation of what you have read online and experienced with one small cooler. The rest is just rambling and thinking out loud.

This "guide" is unneeded and unfounded without any sort of empirical data. This site has plenty of discussion on the topic without the new threads that get posted every other day by some clueless, new, 3rd gen owner.

First of all I don't "think" anything. None of my posts are my original thoughts. I based on the amount of information I read.

Natmob is 100% correct about the lack of data but that goes for 99.9999% of the threads and I'm being generous. Nothing I read comes close to unequivocal proof, this is an enthusiasts forum. Take what you read here with a huge grain of salt and read the professional literature/ the manuals.

I started this because I see numerous thread of people going out and by passing with a 72068 and I kind of freaked out when I saw how small it was.


People tend to jump into cheap easy mods that may not always work out. Not many of the threads I read had properly installed transmission T gauges so no way to determine the accuracy of their statements. Only a couple did before and after. Just as many refuted the entire idea among those professional mechanics....

After reading pretty much every thread on the subject I came away with the conclusion presented. I encourage you to try it and see. I made none of it up...why the heck would I?!

I have no real opinion about the "low temp bypass" (thanks I couldn't recall the term ) but others very much do. I based my opinion upon that. B&M has a category for transmission coolers and the 70266 is not listed. I did not find it until after I bought my 70268. It has different applications. It's very cool you figured this out and it is working for you with a stock install...as you say...lawyers.

Unfortunatly your experience does not constitute "empirical data" it is simply your observation valid as it may be for your purposes.

B&M states clearly you can not expect the 100% efficient at which they rate their "transmission" coolers if you by pass the radiator. I don't think this is lawyerese; I think it's physics. I did not come up with this and was surprised to see it in the literature when I opened the box.

Also consider how cheap an upgrade this is. I'm sure Toyota was aware of the problem yet has not spec'd a remote cooler on any of the 4x4's they make. Perhaps on a TRD package but I bet it still routes through the radiator. $50 to save $5000 tranny... where's them lawyers when ya need them

So Natemob...what is your big concern? Strawberry milkshake? Do you feel this can happen in any radiator at any time new or old, 100 miles or 100k miles? What do you base this on? What possible problem could following B&M instructions re the 70268 cause?

Warren

 

[UTEP]

B&M only recommends not to bypass because of liability issues. I have a 70264 with a 315cfm fan behind it. No temp gauge (my next project) but I can tell the thing is cooler than it was stock just by feeling it. Things change when someone goes full retard, blows his shit up, blames B&M and everyone gets all lawyery.

That fan will do it!

W